Skybound's Journal

[Skybound]

That soil PC, ya know the first one I'm doing in the soso soil, well it's in 10 gallon fabric pot. I don't think I watered it thoroughly in about 2 weeks and each night I giver'er a little lift and she's still so heavy. All I been doing is tossing in a few 20oz cups every couple of days to keep the top living while the bottom hopefully dries. When I have the 9x9, I will be able to walk around, but having these small 4x4 rooms with multiple plants makes maneuvering inside not so easy. But push come to shove, I can print 9 hydro halos, maybe with a builtin sump, something that can slow pour the water into the pot, then it becomes set it and forget it and just top off the sump as needed to add in the water w/o causing a topside landslide and float out the soil stuff from off the top. I'm thinking like a half round jug, or 3/4 round with a cylinder in the center that can circle the tree trunk, and that round be filled with water and half a million pinholes on the bottom. Then just fill it up, maybe a in volume, and let it slowly ooze out into the soil, then you reposition it and refill it. IDK, I'm just spit balling ideas, but I'm sure the hydro halo designs I have can be repurposed to make something intended for soil use?

 

[ilikemsticky]

That soil PC, ya know the first one I'm doing in the soso soil, well it's in 10 gallon fabric pot. I don't think I watered it thoroughly in about 2 weeks and each night I giver'er a little lift and she's still so heavy. All I been doing is tossing in a few 20oz cups every couple of days to keep the top living while the bottom hopefully dries. When I have the 9x9, I will be able to walk around, but having these small 4x4 rooms with multiple plants makes maneuvering inside not so easy. But push come to shove, I can print 9 hydro halos, maybe with a builtin sump, something that can slow pour the water into the pot, then it becomes set it and forget it and just top off the sump as needed to add in the water w/o causing a topside landslide and float out the soil stuff from off the top. I'm thinking like a half round jug, or 3/4 round with a cylinder in the center that can circle the tree trunk, and that round be filled with water and half a million pinholes on the bottom. Then just fill it up, maybe a in volume, and let it slowly ooze out into the soil, then you reposition it and refill it. IDK, I'm just spit balling ideas, but I'm sure the hydro halo designs I have can be repurposed to make something intended for soil use?

I would let that plant in the 10 go until it wilts the reason its heavy in the bottom is theres not enough roots down there you need the plant to go look for water giving it that drink on top is making it easier for the roots to stay where they are imo I like the watering idea that might be slick!

 

[Skybound]

I like the watering idea that might be slick!

ehhh??? ehh???

My build volume is only 200mm (8"), but something like this with holes poked everywhere, or maybe only along the outside, or only on the inside, or 3 different designs?

 

[StoneOtter]

That soil PC, ya know the first one I'm doing in the soso soil, well it's in 10 gallon fabric pot. I don't think I watered it thoroughly in about 2 weeks and each night I giver'er a little lift and she's still so heavy. All I been doing is tossing in a few 20oz cups every couple of days to keep the top living while the bottom hopefully dries. When I have the 9x9, I will be able to walk around, but having these small 4x4 rooms with multiple plants makes maneuvering inside not so easy. But push come to shove, I can print 9 hydro halos, maybe with a builtin sump, something that can slow pour the water into the pot, then it becomes set it and forget it and just top off the sump as needed to add in the water w/o causing a topside landslide and float out the soil stuff from off the top. I'm thinking like a half round jug, or 3/4 round with a cylinder in the center that can circle the tree trunk, and that round be filled with water and half a million pinholes on the bottom. Then just fill it up, maybe a in volume, and let it slowly ooze out into the soil, then you reposition it and refill it. IDK, I'm just spit balling ideas, but I'm sure the hydro halo designs I have can be repurposed to make something intended for soil use?

I'm sure that will do it.

 

[ilikemsticky]

ehhh??? ehh???

My build volume is only 200mm (8"), but something like this with holes poked everywhere, or maybe only along the outside, or only on the inside, or 3 different designs?

that looks like it could work splendidly!

 

[bobrown14]

Congrats on the little ones Sky.

Sometimes the mutants can surprise you.

For the pot not having roots in the btm what I do it wait till the smaller container is full with roots before I transplant. I don't go into large pots with small plants very often.

I've done it and top water a little and fill the dish at the btm with water but not thru the soil. Just add water to the drain dish. The soil will wick it up and the plant will know right away where the water is and send the tap root down there.

 

[Skybound]

Congrats on the little ones Sky.

Sometimes the mutants can surprise you.

For the pot not having roots in the btm what I do it wait till the smaller container is full with roots before I transplant. I don't go into large pots with small plants very often.

I've done it and top water a little and fill the dish at the btm with water but not thru the soil. Just add water to the drain dish. The soil will wick it up and the plant will know right away where the water is and send the tap root down there.

That's a bit of a hard lesson I have to learn because when I popped it from a 3 gallon pot, it had a lot more roots circling than I anticipated, so thought it was ready to go into the 10 gal. I just checked and the pot finally dried out enough to water again. I don't yet have saucers, but they're on the list, so hopefully I will be able to get them with my building materials, but this chop was super small, so funds will be tight.

I'm surprised the soil PC is a tad taller and equally as wide as the hydro PC despite having less than half the trunk girth.

Also, I snapped a pic of me scoping my veg leaves looking for bugs for @Dankman_420. That's more or less how I scope my buds with phone in one hand and the scope in the other. I don't use it so much for picture taking, but more for live video to inspect what I wanna see.

 

[Skybound]

I just noticed a difference (maybe). It appears to me that the side branches grow a bit quicker than in hydro. More or less, these plants (all clone stock) grow like Jewish menorahs. It's like the top is growing slow, but everything else has some zing. I like it!

 

[ilikemsticky]

beautiful very healthy really nice green good work bud!

 

[Dankman_420]

They're looking great Skybound!

 

[bobrown14]

I just noticed a difference (maybe). It appears to me that the side branches grow a bit quicker.... It's like the top is growing slow, but everything else has some zing. I like it!

That's Plant Growth Regulators happening. The plants are actually growing closer to their full potential and genetics together.

It's balance.

Now your lighting will have more input as well.

Not trying to be a soil snob - it's what I've noticed.

I think feeding the plant keeps them happy all the time. In soil when they have to work a little bit more (roots and shoots) to get the goodies, they grow different. Same with outdoor sun grown they grow a lot different.

Ever find a lady thats happy all the time, shoot me her numbers. They few and far between.

Edit - plumbing is an art. I think you have mad skills. I see something here. lol

 

[Skybound]

That's Plant Growth Regulators happening. The plants are actually growing closer to their full potential and genetics together.

It's balance.

Now your lighting will have more input as well.

Not trying to be a soil snob - it's what I've noticed.

I think feeding the plant keeps them happy all the time. In soil when they have to work a little bit more (roots and shoots) to get the goodies, they grow different. Same with outdoor sun grown they grow a lot different.

Ever find a lady thats happy all the time, shoot me her numbers. They few and far between.

Edit - plumbing is an art. I think you have mad skills. I see something here. lol

You think the triacontanol I use is jiving better with the soil than the rockwool?

I've been running the lights at less current (25-40%) than I generally did (55-70%) because 2/3 of it is brought by an extension cord and can't risk heating up for the next couple'a weeks, but the PC's and the Em Dog is loving less light. Perhaps the output spectrums change throughout the range of current draw and voltage? I try to understand all things, but comprehending light measurements for some reason doesn't compute well.

I also subscribe to the practice of feed the plant, though the DB system implies to feed the soil, so I'm trying to grasp the in between. I'm considering running Megacrop in the soil, I'm sure the high K would give a nice bump and would only limit the Ca uptake. Maybe save that option for a hail Mary? I cheated and gave a few ounces to a few veg plants that look afflicted. Not enough to constitute as a feed, but hopefully, just a few extras. The way the HB kit serves it, is to alternate between an NPK balanced and a Cal-Nite growth fert, so I'm trying to do the same. It seems to always reinforce the calcium and nitrate, but also humate and microbes with every drench. I think, but don't yet fully comprehend, is that the soil after being cooked is still bland compared to the super soil, but because of that, continued ferts are needed to keep re-upping the elements.

 

[Dankman_420]

Hey sky when I got my first QB set up for veg I tried running it at 100% and my veg plants freaked out. They started to wilt and leafs pointed down as if they were trying to get out of the light. I turned it down to 60% and they perked up quickly. I don't really know what the exact problem was. I'm just guessing it was just too many photons to intake. That tent is a 32"x48"x60" it had three 288 V2 QB's running off a 320 watt driver

 

[ilikemsticky]

I also subscribe to the practice of feed the plant,

I agree I like to feed the plant with foliar sprays!

 

[bobrown14]

I agree I like to feed the plant with foliar sprays!

What I do as well.

Aloe/Coconut water with kelp tea, Pro-tekt and Ful-power.

@Skybound What form of tricanatol are you adding into your soil??

I add in malted non-gmo corn ground fine along with malted barley and malted buckwheat.

The malted corn will have the tricanatol in a natural organic form. It's a PGR that will definitely help with lateral growth.

a quote:

"TRIA (tricanatol) enhances the physiological efficiency of the cells and, thus, exploits the genetic potential of plant to a large extent."

A good source of naturally occurring tricanatol is Alafalfa. Farmers are running this as a cover crop near me.

 

[Skybound]

I have the fatty alcohol in powder form that is first dissolved in polysorbate, then into water for foliar application. I've read that the tria is substantially more effective when given in a foliar spray and since I already make fish hydrol sprays, I just add it to that. FYI, I first started at 25ppm, which I think is the highest dose I've read about, but then went down to 5ppm for a while, but now wish to go back up. I am eventually going to get and use barley, and maybe aloe too, but have no interest in alfalfa. I don't know yet how much of a factor it will be, but in Doc's kit, when the soil accumulates too much organic matter, then the soil is no longer usable. That said, I want to be conservative with organic inputs in hopes of getting more mileage out of the peat moss I'm using. Still though, I am definitely interested in working the barley into the mix as my lack of patience will require I do my best to shorten the time needed to finish if possible.

 

[bobrown14]

The malted barley will get you 10-20% off your finish time in flower. That you add to the soil.

I'm not aware of that "too much organic matter in soil" thing. Where did you hear that??

SOM - soil organic matter, that along with high CEC (cation exchange capacity) is what my goal is.

I get my soil tested yearly (and use it over and over) so I know how much of everything including CEC and SOM is in my soil. Unless I'm adding amendments or compost to my soil the SOM is always going to go down. It doesn't go down a lot but usually the Ca is the main nutrient that gets used most by cannabis. I'm sure you already know that.

I let the roots compost in the pot and just use that pot again for the next flower. All I add in a little EWC, malted barley and some kelp meal and maybe a little Ca source like crustacean meal but I'm talking a table spoon per cubic foot.

All the SOM is not soluble. This is the difference with using fertilizer and not. The ferts are soluble. I depend on the soil microbes to break down the SOM into what the plant wants. The plants tell the microbes what they need via root exudate. Then there's a hand off.
So the SOM can sit there for a long long time until the microbes work it its not soluble and the CEC will bind those nutrients to the soil particles until the microbes come along and break it down.

The malted barley runs the microbes into overdrive - its a catalyst of catalysts. Thats how the finish happens faster from the MB.

 

[Skybound]

The malted barley will get you 10-20% off your finish time in flower. That you add to the soil.

I'm not aware of that "too much organic matter in soil" thing. Where did you hear that??

SOM - soil organic matter, that along with high CEC (cation exchange capacity) is what my goal is.

I get my soil tested yearly (and use it over and over) so I know how much of everything including CEC and SOM is in my soil. Unless I'm adding amendments or compost to my soil the SOM is always going to go down. It doesn't go down a lot but usually the Ca is the main nutrient that gets used most by cannabis. I'm sure you already know that.

I let the roots compost in the pot and just use that pot again for the next flower. All I add in a little EWC, malted barley and some kelp meal and maybe a little Ca source like crustacean meal but I'm talking a table spoon per cubic foot.

All the SOM is not soluble. This is the difference with using fertilizer and not. The ferts are soluble. I depend on the soil microbes to break down the SOM into what the plant wants. The plants tell the microbes what they need via root exudate. Then there's a hand off.
So the SOM can sit there for a long long time until the microbes work it its not soluble and the CEC will bind those nutrients to the soil particles until the microbes come along and break it down.

The malted barley runs the microbes into overdrive - its a catalyst of catalysts. Thats how the finish happens faster from the MB.

Here's a DB post from 2015, but he says this frequently, so there'll be a lot more of the same more or less. I could almost swear that I've read something similar in an article, or perhaps a PDF, but CEC was also referenced. Perhaps too much organic matter influences the CEC? I'll have to learn that all again as I clearly forgot, lol.

Doc Bud: High Brix Q&A With Pictures

 

[bobrown14]

I grow all soil all organic which is water in the soil and foliars for bonus above soil with IPM.


You could probably grow plants in 100% rabbit/alpaca/llama poop. I could bet it wood work and you wood get a decent crop at that. I've actually seen it done. But not trying to be argumentative or anything but there are not that many absolutes with gardening other sun/rain/dark.

I have a specific soil mix for sure.

1/3 peat moss
1/3 aeration - perlite
1/3 humus - compost/ewc

Then add in a few amendments with several cups of granite dust/cubic foot of soil.

The humus is the SOM
The rock dusts are the CEC.

Then I get the soil tested after the mix and annually after that and just re-use the soil over and over.

If you want to have peace of mind you should get the soil tested. Its free in most states or you pay postage. Go thru your local county/state extension service.

This way when you get your soil tested you know you are good to go. Eventually the reach for the added boost of nutrients that may or may not be needed will fade.

I get the "kit" thing. Its good step for folks that wanna feel a part of the grow, for sure I get that. I've been gardening for a very very long time and my interest after planting is making sure there's adequate water supply and wait for the goodness to happen.

 

[Skybound]

I didn't mean to imply that I received it as you arguing, I only mentioned it as a conversation ballast. I alone control the contents of my soil, but I'm modeling it after DB's kit to the best of my ability. I def will get it tested once my recipe settles to something I am comfortable with, but here's my 20oz amendment that I used in my 2nd batch. My first batch I didn't even write down as I made it out of frustration and impatience. It's a fairly mild comp as best I can tell and I've already discovered that plants go deficient after about 2 weeks of water only w/o nutes. It DEFINITELY requires ferts to succeed. I presume your soil doesn't require ferts. The Kit does require ferts aka drenches. Before committing to anything, I liked the overall system. The only thing very plentiful in the soil is calcium. Everything else needs to be re-upped over and over and over. Coming from hydro the way I did it, this is a perfect soil for me as it requires me to dial in the various levels, and coming from the perspective of needing to reverse engineer the feeds to best work with the materials I have or can readily get, I can learn a lot more from the experience than the average kit grower.

All of that said, I will add more organic matter, but I will not get too carried away with that, especially for something like alfalfa that would only offer a very small fraction of tria, especially since I'm already giving the preferred method (foliar spray). If you want to update your foliar HERE's where to get the tria. They have a nice starter kit that has the polysorbate and also I think a beeker for cooking the tria into the polysorbate. 2 scoop of the powder into a couple ml of polysorbate will make 1 gallon of water at 25ppm which can then be used to make your regular foliar spray with yucca and whatever else is desired. I use fish hydrol mostly and some molasses, but every once in a while I add calcium nitrate or a little gypsum and always some fulvic/humic powder.

edit - I mix that with (my version ) of Fuax Mix which itself is Farside's homemade ProMix. I'm going to one day make my own Faux Mix formulation for making my Faux Brix Mix, but I want to make a blend of Garden Lim for Mag and Cal Carbonate for Cal and buffering, but once I figure out that balance, it will mix with 3CuFt of peat moss, 2CuFt of perlite. Once that sets up after 3 days, I'd then add the above 20oz mix with 30lbs of EWC and that all together is 50 gallons of what I think is bland soil ready for roots and ferts.