SoG question: to top or not

[Curbcalamity]

hi guys,

So normally I'm not into SoG growing cos where I grew up we had limitations on plant numbers. so it makes me a bit nervous seeing so many girls at once, but I'm a little short for time on this last round and happen to ha e 50 wedding gelato seeds from royal queen seeds. so ima do a 7x7 cube configuration in a 7x7 foot space. (this is after what I lose to be able to move around) I'm aiming for about 41g per plant at the end of this. now. i was thinking, is there any reason to not say top the girl so she has 4 main colas instead of one?

 

[Bill284]

hi guys,

So normally I'm not into SoG growing cos where I grew up we had limitations on plant numbers. so it makes me a bit nervous seeing so many girls at once, but I'm a little short for time on this last round and happen to ha e 50 wedding gelato seeds from royal queen seeds. so ima do a 7x7 cube configuration in a 7x7 foot space. (this is after what I lose to be able to move around) I'm aiming for about 41g per plant at the end of this. now. i was thinking, is there any reason to not say top the girl so she has 4 main colas instead of one?

There are several methods we use to increase volume. Topping can add a week or two to your veg time. Lst on the other hand can be used to increase volume with out increasing veg time. I top my girls at least once when young then bend over the branches for greater volume. Happy growing friend,.

 

[Emilya Green]

The whole idea of a sea of green (SOG) grow is to get in and get out quickly. There should be no topping in a SOG, it only slows things down. Run 50 plants in 1 gallon containers as fast as they will go into bloom, and boom, 8 weeks later you have 50 main colas of adequate size, and they will weigh up to as much as you could have grown with much longer running plants that had been vegged out for a couple more weeks. Run over time, you should be able to get an extra run each year too, again increasing production levels. SOG is a lot of work with a lot of moving parts, but the technique is all about production... and it works.

 

[Curbcalamity]

The whole idea of a sea of green (SOG) grow is to get in and get out quickly. There should be no topping in a SOG, it only slows things down. Run 50 plants in 1 gallon containers as fast as they will go into bloom, and boom, 8 weeks later you have 50 main colas of adequate size, and they will weigh up to as much as you could have grown with much longer running plants that had been vegged out for a couple more weeks. Run over time, you should be able to get an extra run each year too, again increasing production levels. SOG is a lot of work with a lot of moving parts, but the technique is all about production... and it works.

thanks that's the info I needed, so the extra 1-2 weeks veg is not going to increase my yield? i was just going to top a day or 2 before I switched. 1 galleon seems a bit small though I was thinking 2-3? also what sort of yield can I expect out of each plant in this way?

 

[Emilya Green]

thanks that's the info I needed, so the extra 1-2 weeks veg is not going to increase my yield? i was just going to top a day or 2 before I switched. 1 galleon seems a bit small though I was thinking 2-3? also what sort of yield can I expect out of each plant in this way?

SOG is a technique that goes for speed and gets the production yields you want due to sheer numbers. The goal is not a tremendous yield from each plant and 1 gallon container, all you care about is one bud, maybe 1/2 oz dry from each plant. Lets look at the numbers.

Lets say you are running 50 plants in a SOG in a 4x4 growing area... your final yield is 25 oz. It took you 12 weeks and 50g of soil to produce it. You can do 4.3 of these per year, for a total of 107.5 oz per year from the operation.

Let's move up to 3 gallon containers. Lets say you have a 4x4 growing space and can only hold 12 3 gallon plants. You will need to veg for 3 more weeks at least to top the plants once and build up roots in the larger container, so this grow will take 15 weeks and 36g of soil. Each 3g should produce about an ounce and a half dry, resulting in a yield of 18oz. You can only do 3.5 of these per year, so your yearly total at this level is 62.4 oz per year. The additional time it takes to build up a 3g container has cost you in yearly production as compared to a SOG.

Now just for completeness, lets examine 10 g containers. You can only fit 4 of those monster plants in your grow area. To properly fill a 10 g container you probably should veg for 3 months. This brings total grow time to 20 weeks. 40 gallons of soil is used for a yield of about 36oz. You can only do 2.6 of these grows every year, for a total of 93.6 oz per year.

So, your limiting factors are the area you have to grow in and time. Yes, you can slow things down and top and train and go longer in veg, use bigger containers, and you can increase yields per plant on each individual grow. You can make each single grow produce more at the cost of time and additional space. Over time however, no other grow method can beat the production capability of a SOG operation in the same space. Personally, I don't like to work that hard... watering 50 plants every day or two, not to mention the logistics of planting and managing that many containers. I prefer to slow things down and go with the larger containers... it is a lot less work in the long run and you don't become so much a slave of your grow operation. You can run your operation however you best see fit, but there is no cheating the physics of the size of the grow space, and you cant expect things to happen instantly, for instance your suggestion of topping and then flipping to bloom 2 days later. There will be very little benefit from that topping... sure, you will get an extra bud, but you wont have the enhanced side growth that comes with a topping in that short time and your yield won't significantly increase. If you top and wait two weeks... that is another story. You just can't rush these processes and expect great things from your shortcuts... It simply won't work.

 

[SmokingWings]

SOG is a technique that goes for speed and gets the production yields you want due to sheer numbers. The goal is not a tremendous yield from each plant and 1 gallon container, all you care about is one bud, maybe 1/2 oz dry from each plant. Lets look at the numbers.

Lets say you are running 50 plants in a SOG in a 4x4 growing area... your final yield is 25 oz. It took you 12 weeks and 50g of soil to produce it. You can do 4.3 of these per year, for a total of 107.5 oz per year from the operation.

Let's move up to 3 gallon containers. Lets say you have a 4x4 growing space and can only hold 12 3 gallon plants. You will need to veg for 3 more weeks at least to top the plants once and build up roots in the larger container, so this grow will take 15 weeks and 36g of soil. Each 3g should produce about an ounce and a half dry, resulting in a yield of 18oz. You can only do 3.5 of these per year, so your yearly total at this level is 62.4 oz per year. The additional time it takes to build up a 3g container has cost you in yearly production as compared to a SOG.

Now just for completeness, lets examine 10 g containers. You can only fit 4 of those monster plants in your grow area. To properly fill a 10 g container you probably should veg for 3 months. This brings total grow time to 20 weeks. 40 gallons of soil is used for a yield of about 36oz. You can only do 2.6 of these grows every year, for a total of 93.6 oz per year.

So, your limiting factors are the area you have to grow in and time. Yes, you can slow things down and top and train and go longer in veg, use bigger containers, and you can increase yields per plant on each individual grow. You can make each single grow produce more at the cost of time and additional space. Over time however, no other grow method can beat the production capability of a SOG operation in the same space. Personally, I don't like to work that hard... watering 50 plants every day or two, not to mention the logistics of planting and managing that many containers. I prefer to slow things down and go with the larger containers... it is a lot less work in the long run and you don't become so much a slave of your grow operation. You can run your operation however you best see fit, but there is no cheating the physics of the size of the grow space, and you cant expect things to happen instantly, for instance your suggestion of topping and then flipping to bloom 2 days later. There will be very little benefit from that topping... sure, you will get an extra bud, but you wont have the enhanced side growth that comes with a topping in that short time and your yield won't significantly increase. If you top and wait two weeks... that is another story. You just can't rush these processes and expect great things from your shortcuts... It simply won't work.

Well written.

Another thing to consider. If trying the SoG in 1 gallon pots of soil the gardener has to be on top of things. Marijuana is a heavy and demanding feeder. Any nutrient missing in that one gallon of soil and the plant will start to show it. Considering that it is likely every one of those containers has the same soil then each plant will suffer a problem. Then it might take time, maybe two weeks, to figure out what is missing and another 2 weeks for the plant to respond to any treatments. Lost time and lost weight and it cannot be made up for since there just is not enough soil to begin with and there is no way to change or stall the flowering schedule once it starts.

@Curbcalamity, the best thing might be to just go with 3 or 5 gallon containers and keep the left over seeds for the next grow session.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Curbcalamity]

yaeh ima do 3 galleons as that was my gut instinct from the outset. Ill still fit all 49 in the space

 

[MackMurder]

hi guys,

So normally I'm not into SoG growing cos where I grew up we had limitations on plant numbers. so it makes me a bit nervous seeing so many girls at once, but I'm a little short for time on this last round and happen to ha e 50 wedding gelato seeds from royal queen seeds. so ima do a 7x7 cube configuration in a 7x7 foot space. (this is after what I lose to be able to move around) I'm aiming for about 41g per plant at the end of this. now. i was thinking, is there any reason to not say top the girl so she has 4 main colas instead of one?

Everyone's different.

I do sea of green and top all my plants once about a week and a half before flip.
4 week veg.
1 week transition.
7 to 8 week flower.
No net. No lst. Just top once and let em ride
11 to 12 week maximum cycle.
(I should mention i don't count vagative stage until my solo cup seedling is transplanted into my 5 gallon pot. That's day 1 of week 1.

Also topping does not produce 2.or 4 branches and fim does not provide 4 or 8.

When you cut of the plans main stem at the top. All it does is force more growth hormones to other branches. Sometimes 4 sometimes 16. Depends on the genetics

 

[MackMurder]

Lets say you are running 50 plants in a SOG in a 4x4 growing area... your final yield is 25 oz. It took you 12 weeks and 50g of soil to produce it. You can do 4.3 of these per year, for a total of 107.5 oz per year from the operation.

I yeild around 3.66 ounce per plant average in a 12 week cycle in a 5 gallon pail topping once.

(Gorilla skittlz was 3.3 , sweet zombie was 3.5, critical kush was 3.75, and critical orange punch was 4) per plant

I do 20 to 25 pots in one grow. Around 80 to 100 ounce dry per 12 week cycle.

I also don't grow anything that isn't 8 week flower and anything that isn't states as 550grams to 700 grams per meter square on paper

But it took.me 3 grows to get there

 

[Emilya Green]

I yeild around 3.66 ounce per plant average in a 12 week cycle in a 5 gallon pail topping once.

(Gorilla skittlz was 3.3 , sweet zombie was 3.5, critical kush was 3.75, and critical orange punch was 4) per plant

I do 20 to 25 pots in one grow. Around 80 to 100 ounce dry per 12 week cycle.

I also don't grow anything that isn't 8 week flower and anything that isn't states as 550grams to 700 grams per meter square on paper

how large of a grow area are you using? Your numbers sound about right.... that is some good production

 

[MackMurder]

how large of a grow area are you using? Your numbers sound about right.... that is some good production

Shoot forgot to mention thats from seed Emilya
I only did half that with clones of the same plant.
I feel that is a big factor in yeild. With my limited experience anyways with clones. I've done 5 seed grows 1 clone grow so not alot to compare it to.

Grow area is 8x8

 

[Southerncough]

If you're using small containers topping for multiple colas is doable but be careful not to cram them in there too tight. I found when doing SOG in 5x5 square pots that it really helped to remove all of the lateral branches because the plants were getting tangled up with each other and leave just the tops. Also doing this at the end of veg provides plenty of clones!
For bigger pots (3 gal and up) I'm sure topping will be fine. Just make sure you can reach all the pots to water and there's good air flow through the canopy!

 

[Weaselcracker]

For that many plants I’d just veg them a few weeks and then put them into 12/12 and let them run as single cola plants in one gallon pots. But there are all sorts of ways to achieve the same coverage in your space. Personal preference.
I got just shy of 42 grams from this plant in 15 oz of coco, 12/12 from seed. The yield vs effort involved made me a convert to single cola style plants.

Cheesy

• Weaselcracker
• Apr 21, 2016

 

[MackMurder]

For that many plants I’d just veg them a few weeks and then put them into 12/12 and let them run as single cola plants in one gallon pots. But there are all sorts of ways to achieve the same coverage in your space. Personal preference.
I got just shy of 42 grams from this plant in 15 oz of coco, 12/12 from seed. The yield vs effort involved made me a convert to single cola style plants.

Cheesy

• Weaselcracker
• Apr 21, 2016

Beauty bro

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks Mack. But beyond just showing off it really was an eye opener that I got almost an ounce and a half of that little plant, compared to the yield I was getting from trained and scrogged plants that took way more time and effort. Also looks nicer IMO. I gave up on topping a couple years ago now if I want a bush I just bend it over and let it grow more tops from out the side.

But again- lots of ways to skin the cat.

 

[MackMurder]

compared to the yield I was getting from trained and scrogged plants that took way more time and effort.

I agree with that. The work and time required for the end result isn't economic for me. Looks hella cool tho

 

[Southerncough]

I loved doing SOG but Mrs Cough was getting really paranoid about the plant count. She's nervous enough with a handful of plants, but really freaked out when there were double the amount of the misdemeanor limit and deep into felony territory. So...now i try to take my time and produce meds with fewer plants because even though it's the same weight/yield i don't need the legal troubles that come with 50 (tiny) plants

 

[Curbcalamity]

Everyone's different.

I do sea of green and top all my plants once about a week and a half before flip.
4 week veg.
1 week transition.
7 to 8 week flower.
No net. No lst. Just top once and let em ride
11 to 12 week maximum cycle.
(I should mention i don't count vagative stage until my solo cup seedling is transplanted into my 5 gallon pot. That's day 1 of week 1.

Also topping does not produce 2.or 4 branches and fim does not provide 4 or 8.

When you cut of the plans main stem at the top. All it does is force more growth hormones to other branches. Sometimes 4 sometimes 16. Depends on the genetics

hqa, this was my gut reaction, top em so they have 4 main branches, leave it at that recovery time and flick

 

[Curbcalamity]

For that many plants I’d just veg them a few weeks and then put them into 12/12 and let them run as single cola plants in one gallon pots. But there are all sorts of ways to achieve the same coverage in your space. Personal preference.
I got just shy of 42 grams from this plant in 15 oz of coco, 12/12 from seed. The yield vs effort involved made me a convert to single cola style plants.

Cheesy

• Weaselcracker
• Apr 21, 2016

so thats a 42g plant dry weight, what plant per square foot did you have?

I loved doing SOG but Mrs Cough was getting really paranoid about the plant count. She's nervous enough with a handful of plants, but really freaked out when there were double the amount of the misdemeanor limit and deep into felony territory. So...now i try to take my time and produce meds with fewer plants because even though it's the same weight/yield i don't need the legal troubles that come with 50 (tiny) plants

yeah we did that back home as well the laws were. 1. <5 <10 <20. everyone did 2 rooms of 9 lol

 

[Curbcalamity]

how large of a grow area are you using? Your numbers sound about right.... that is some good production

tent is a totaly of 8x8. ive sacrificed some to go with a space of about 7x7 (2.23m square to be honest)
i figured a 7 x7 configuration. so 1 plant per square foot with 3 galleon pots and ill top em so they have few arms. aim is 42g per plant. so I know I could push it to 5lb but I don't have the watts in ligh to achieve that