SOG - RDWC - Clones - What's wrong with my plan?

Nutria

New Member
Yo growers!
My tent is 2x2x4.5ft.
My objective is to maximize the yield and decrease time between harvests.
I thought to make a sog grow in a rdwc system.

I will flower clones inside the tent with 0 to 1 week vegetative.
Clones will be taken from a mother and put in a cloner machine. I expect clones to grow and be ready to flower every 2 months.

How many clones can I grow in such space?
I thought 9 max, maybe 5, each inside a 1gal bucket.

Since some people is suggesting me to not grow so many plants in such a small space or in small buckets, what's wrong with that? It is a recirculating system so the overall water volume should be pretty considerable even with small buckets. Roots shouldn't grow so big to overgrow buckets.
What are your thoughts?
 
The best way is to try and see what works for you. Cannibus is going to grow like a ... weed ... so whatever method you use is up to you. General concepts, tho:

Smaller rootball = smaller harvest. But does pot size mean anything in a hydro? Don't the roots spread out into the water?

Plan your space for a mature plant of 30" diameter if you lst. 9 lst'd plants will fill a 5' x 5' space. If you let them grow tall but not wide, you will only be able to fit maybe 5 plants in a 2' x 2' tent. They WILL be wider than a 1 gallon pot when mature.

Some growers DO go right to flower when the babies have just a few leaves, but they aren't going to flower until they are ready, and then you might get 9 small yields.

In the end, it's up to you. Try different methods, until you find what works best for you. :Namaste:
 
The best way is to try and see what works for you. Cannibus is going to grow like a ... weed ... so whatever method you use is up to you. General concepts, tho:

Smaller rootball = smaller harvest. But does pot size mean anything in a hydro? Don't the roots spread out into the water?

Plan your space for a mature plant of 30" diameter if you lst. 9 lst'd plants will fill a 5' x 5' space. If you let them grow tall but not wide, you will only be able to fit maybe 5 plants in a 2' x 2' tent. They WILL be wider than a 1 gallon pot when mature.

Some growers DO go right to flower when the babies have just a few leaves, but they aren't going to flower until they are ready, and then you might get 9 small yields.

In the end, it's up to you. Try different methods, until you find what works best for you. :Namaste:

Thx for your post. If I have a mature mother plant the clones will be as old as the mother so if I let them vegetate for some weeks in the aerocloner they should be enough mature to flower. I plan to not lst them, just let them grow to 10-15" then lollipop everything except the top 3 nodes, this should give me a big main cola and few small buds.
 
Interesting idea. I would think for a SOG application a continuous loop of 3" PVC might be easier to setup and maintain. Maintain an inch or two of slop from top to drain. Let us know how the buckets work out! Good luck

Well at the very first I thought to use 4-5" pipes, maybe an arena or V grow. But I would need a reservoir and I do not know how to manage the water level without placing pipes higher than the reservoir...
 
Well at the very first I thought to use 4-5" pipes, maybe an arena or V grow. But I would need a reservoir and I do not know how to manage the water level without placing pipes higher than the reservoir...

True... You wouldn't need to maintain a level, you would only need to maintain a supply (recycle drain to res of course). Just a thought. Curious to see what you decide.
 
Nutria, start a journal, take some pics, and let us see how your experiment works. We share the Good, Bad, and Ugly here. No secrets! :allgood:
Ofc I will but for the very first run I will use 1gal smart pots with Coco+perlite

True... You wouldn't need to maintain a level, you would only need to maintain a supply (recycle drain to res of course). Just a thought. Curious to see what you decide.
How can I drain from pipes to res without the pipes being placed above the res?
 
Mmm that was some stuff to take a gander at !

Right sog ah their is fine maths to play with to work this out...

The smaller the plant the lower the yield this would contribute to allowed space to grow in mainly height which is a question with the tent ya got.

Once you factor in bucket, tote, tray or what ever in total height plus lights used & safe hanging distance of lights & plant size once flowered after initial stretch has occurred after the first few weeks of flowering etc...


Sog traditional methods is about 16 to 20 plants per 1 m2 100 cm by 100 cm expected yield of XXX grams is strain related depending on light source tho mainly 600w hps at an average guess !

So 16 plants per 1 m2 is 4 rows of 4 average space 25 cm, 20 plants 5 rows of 5 average space 20 cm that is more likely in pots perhaps 3 to 5 liter size at a guess, ya have to find a suitable size bucket or tote for tent size to work out spacing tho if going rdwc.

If rdwc is planned the larger the tank res the more stable PH is... Croatsan popped into you link mentioned above, that is a very simple rdwc DIY job, i just loved it & basically works on a single pump with top feed with lower pipe set in main grow tank to head pump bucket to recyclate nutrients/water very easy...



Ok some seed breeders mention yield like 500 g per m2 that is a sog reference, that is not one week of vegging which will only yield a few to several grams at best full stop... that is a lot plants to bulk up G's in ya area & what is legal a big question if caught with ya pants down !


So what ya looking at with 16 plants per 1 M2 is a yield of 1 oz per plant a high yielding strain ideally to equal 500 g under good lighting choice & that is not one weeks of veg either !

20 plants ah, might suggest a lower yielding strain to make numbers meet up :thumb:
 
Mmm that was some stuff to take a gander at !

Right sog ah their is fine maths to play with to work this out...

The smaller the plant the lower the yield this would contribute to allowed space to grow in mainly height which is a question with the tent ya got.

Once you factor in bucket, tote, tray or what ever in total height plus lights used & safe hanging distance of lights & plant size once flowered after initial stretch has occurred after the first few weeks of flowering etc...


Sog traditional methods is about 16 to 20 plants per 1 m2 100 cm by 100 cm expected yield of XXX grams is strain related depending on light source tho mainly 600w hps at an average guess !

So 16 plants per 1 m2 is 4 rows of 4 average space 25 cm, 20 plants 5 rows of 5 average space 20 cm that is more likely in pots perhaps 3 to 5 liter size at a guess, ya have to find a suitable size bucket or tote for tent size to work out spacing tho if going rdwc.

If rdwc is planned the larger the tank res the more stable PH is... Croatsan popped into you link mentioned above, that is a very simple rdwc DIY job, i just loved it & basically works on a single pump with top feed with lower pipe set in main grow tank to head pump bucket to recyclate nutrients/water very easy...



Ok some seed breeders mention yield like 500 g per m2 that is a sog reference, that is not one week of vegging which will only yield a few to several grams at best full stop... that is a lot plants to bulk up G's in ya area & what is legal a big question if caught with ya pants down !


So what ya looking at with 16 plants per 1 M2 is a yield of 1 oz per plant a high yielding strain ideally to equal 500 g under good lighting choice & that is not one weeks of veg either !

20 plants ah, might suggest a lower yielding strain to make numbers meet up :thumb:

Your post has been helpful. I already did some math based on suggestions given me, like 9 plants in my space, so I was looking for 20cm max buckets (I found some 4L) or bigger if I grow less plants. Btw if u tell me I can grow 16/sqm, my tent is 0,36sqm, I should go for 5 or 6 plants.

My question is: if I grow 5 big plants yield will be the same to 10 small plants? 5 plants giving me 50gr each against 10 yielding 25gr each.
Does a small plant (with small buds) mature faster than a big producer?

Atm I grow with a led panel + some CFL but this winter (with sog grow) I would try a 400w hps I have. It should be enough for a 60x60cm tent. I also have a cool tube but I do not know if I can use it with my air extractor used for air exchange too.
Btw 30-35cm between cool tube and tops.
+12cm cool tube diameter.
+10cm more for hangs.
=55cm
140cm tent height.
140-55=85cm useable to grow

It depends on pots height so.
 
Ye it is a fine line to draw.

Unfortunately smaller plants, smaller bud does not mature any quicker than a larger plant it is just expected flowering time per strain at the end of day it is all the same.


5 larger plants or 10 smaller plants a tough call to make all depends on total size once flipped to flowering on expected yield !

Ye i've run a few mini sog grows & generally veg in till the plants are some 8 to 12 inch tall from clones before flipping to flowering on average if a good yielding strain that may produce around 1 oz per plant & may look at a 45 cm tall plant plus tho.

Ye that is a sog experiment in a 2 liter pot, done others in same pot size with above mentioned with a 400w hps but may need daily watering once in flowering tho in a small pots but may suggest larger pots for ease.

PICT000268.JPG





On a side note clones don't nearly stretch as much in the first few weeks of flowering when compared to plant grown from seed... so that should give ya a little extra room if ya know the plant ya dealing with !
 
Ye it is a fine line to draw.

Unfortunately smaller plants, smaller bud does not mature any quicker than a larger plant it is just expected flowering time per strain at the end of day it is all the same.


5 larger plants or 10 smaller plants a tough call to make all depends on total size once flipped to flowering on expected yield !

Ye i've run a few mini sog grows & generally veg in till the plants are some 8 to 12 inch tall from clones before flipping to flowering on average if a good yielding strain that may produce around 1 oz per plant & may look at a 45 cm tall plant plus tho.

Ye that is a sog experiment in a 2 liter pot, done others in same pot size with above mentioned with a 400w hps but may need daily watering once in flowering tho in a small pots but may suggest larger pots for ease.

PICT000268.JPG





On a side note clones don't nearly stretch as much in the first few weeks of flowering when compared to plant grown from seed... so that should give ya a little extra room if ya know the plant ya dealing with !

Thx for the post, full of information!
I hope clones (max 15", I would go for 30cm) will not stretch too much cause I have no vertical space, especially if they grow more than 2x. Strain choice is obviously a key factor, I got some cream mandarine fast version from Sweet Seeds. I planted 4 Seeds and they sprouted these days.

I am experimenting with an automatic drip feed system and a res so I shouldn't hand water each pot. That's why I love dwc hydro.
 
Strain choice is obviously a key factor, I got some cream mandarine fast version from Sweet Seeds. I planted 4 Seeds and they sprouted these days

Fast version by sweet seeds ah, they are called fast for a reason !

I grew out their F1 hybrid green poison by sweet seeds & talk about vigorous veg growth like some 20" of veg growth in 4 weeks from germination... so i might suggest keeping a close eye on that just in case.

Plants grown from seed are more vigorous & tend to stretch more depending on genetic's like sative & indica etc.

How ever clones tend to stretch less.

Plants grown from seed which are topped on the main apical stem & side lateral branches tend to stretch less as well but may require extra veg time for suitable regenerative growth to take place before flowering ideally several inches.
 
Check out my first journals in my signature. I didn't quite grow in the same fashion as you are describing, but I had the clone-to-flower and SOG dialed in pretty well.

:cheer:
You also grown different strains together, it is really helpful! Still reading it

Fast version by sweet seeds ah, they are called fast for a reason !

I grew out their F1 hybrid green poison by sweet seeds & talk about vigorous veg growth like some 20" of veg growth in 4 weeks from germination... so i might suggest keeping a close eye on that just in case.

Plants grown from seed are more vigorous & tend to stretch more depending on genetic's like sative & indica etc.

How ever clones tend to stretch less.

Plants grown from seed which are topped on the main apical stem & side lateral branches tend to stretch less as well but may require extra veg time for suitable regenerative growth to take place before flowering ideally several inches.
I saw you have grown SS strains! How much faster are their F1 strains? How many weeks did they take to harvest?

Btw I'll keep you guys updated!
 
Ah well it was the extraordinary veg growth of the F1 hybrid green poison which took me by surprise, normally i veg for 8 weeks from seed spout with most fem seeds but these where like 4 weeks & so so tall totally kicked me in my butt...

Best part of that grow was done in 3 months with an average yield 2 oz dry per plant under a 400w hps.


It was just the veg growth of that strain which speeded things up, i think off the top of head it was harvested at 8 weeks once flowering started.


Ya need to look around for strains with shorter flowering times tho 7 or 8 weeks can be done with good conditions with ideal strain !
 
If you have healthy rooted clones i would go for less larger plants. Go for 2 weeks veg and you can still get some very decent plants with that. Ive pulled 14oz dry off a 2 weeks veg in dwc. But you want way bigger than a 1 gal res or you are asking for trouble for dwc. If you do individual 15-20litre buckets you would be better off. Easier to keep water temps down and ph stable. DWC plants done well require only very short veg times.
 
Since I don't do DWC, I'll stay out of most of the conversation. But, if this is your first grow, no matter what you decide, KISS. :cheesygrinsmiley:
Get at least one full run under your belt before going too crazy. IMO, hydro has the steepest learning curve of any grow method. That doesn't mean you can't rock it, but make sure you can keep your nute's temperature, PH and EC in check and dialed in.

:goodluck:
 
Ah well it was the extraordinary veg growth of the F1 hybrid green poison which took me by surprise, normally i veg for 8 weeks from seed spout with most fem seeds but these where like 4 weeks & so so tall totally kicked me in my butt...

Best part of that grow was done in 3 months with an average yield 2 oz dry per plant under a 400w hps.


It was just the veg growth of that strain which speeded things up, i think off the top of head it was harvested at 8 weeks once flowering started.


Ya need to look around for strains with shorter flowering times tho 7 or 8 weeks can be done with good conditions with ideal strain !

Their Cream Mandarine F1 is advertised as 8w flowering, so should I expect 10w? Maybe. Anyway, I want to try some SS genetics. It is also hard to find a 8w strain, not a problem if it is a 10weeker, I prefer quality than quantity.

If you have healthy rooted clones i would go for less larger plants. Go for 2 weeks veg and you can still get some very decent plants with that. Ive pulled 14oz dry off a 2 weeks veg in dwc. But you want way bigger than a 1 gal res or you are asking for trouble for dwc. If you do individual 15-20litre buckets you would be better off. Easier to keep water temps down and ph stable. DWC plants done well require only very short veg times.
Hi! When you say 2weeks veg, do you mean once planted in the final pot?
If I go for a SOG I can't go bigger than 1 gal (9 pots), there's no space. If I go bigger I can grow only 2 plants (at max) in such space. I already tried a 8 colas manifold in a single dwc bucket, i will try a script grow too.
Any grow system I choose I will use a reservoir to recirculate the water, definitely easier to keep pH/Ec under control, as you said.

Since I don't do DWC, I'll stay out of most of the conversation. But, if this is your first grow, no matter what you decide, KISS. :cheesygrinsmiley:
Get at least one full run under your belt before going too crazy. IMO, hydro has the steepest learning curve of any grow method. That doesn't mean you can't rock it, but make sure you can keep your nute's temperature, PH and EC in check and dialed in.

:goodluck:
Thanks for coming by!
I already successfully completed a dwc grow (check it!) And I am close to harvest 2 plants grown in Coco/perlite. I only tried hydro, never gone with soil.
 
Trust me you are asking for trouble running 9 1gal dwc unless you recirculate them all through a larger 20gal+ res.

if you have a rooted clone, preferably aerocloned for dwc with pebbles as medium, 2 weeks veg is enough for most res sizes, i often veg 7 days and flip in 6inch net pots with 8gal buckets.

you will definitely get better quality and yield running less plants and bigger buckets. even if you done 4 2.5 gal buckets it would be better.

If you are set on sog i would switch to coco as it will save you a lot of hassle down the road. Its very consistent for results and easy to maintain. DWC is great for fast plants , it will usually take 1 week off flower time and give more yield per plant. However yield per plant is not a good gauge to success, always measure any results by m2.
 
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