Starting an F2 pheno hunt: worth it or a waste of time?

[ChefDGreen]

Hello everyone,
I want to ask the opinions of the growers and breeders in the community as I’m sure you all will have insight for me. I’ve purchased some F1 seed from Gu at greenpoint seeds. It’s his stardawg male crossed with cookies n cream from Exotic Genetix. Now, my question; is doing an F2 pheno hunt worth my time? I could potentially pop 25-50 seeds at one time. Are those numbers large enough to find something exceptional? Should I open pollinate, watching to cull any plants with strange flowers? Or should I be more selective and only allow one or two males? What are some good methodologies to finding a lovely mother? Am I being stupid and I should just grow my F1s and pick my favorites from there?

Let me know what you all think!


I posted this in the FAQ and I didn’t get any responses so I’m posting this here now.

 

[ChefDGreen]

Bump

 

[Jackalope]

Lots to consider. Do you have the time and the place to really do it right. Your plant counts will be enough for a decent pheno hunt. It is if you want to go to the trouble of making good F-2 seeds. For me I found it is easier to do hybrids or just save a clone and try and self it. Nothing wrong with F-2 seeds as long as you know what they are and how they were made.

First is the why. Mostly there are only 2 reasons for a F-2. For most of us it is because we need more seeds and don't want to buy them AGAIN. Sometimes F-2 is our only option. Breeders will do a F-2 run on occasion to find something they want for a back cross. The main thing to remember is that there is going to be a lot more variety. That could be good or bad.

My mentor makes lots of F-2 hybrids of the strains he buys. He ALWAYS does this the same way. Most people will not take the time to do it right. First he makes seeds the first run and looks for great plants after. The reason is he grows from seed as much as he does clones. This way he has plenty of seeds to go back to that strain at any time and find another plant to clone and run for a short time. He grows for sale only and changes strains quite a bit to keep people happy.

If you want to keep all the genetic information. You can't just use one male and one female. Even the most stable strain would be effected. These may be great seeds but genetic information has been lost. Maybe that genetic information you were looking for or needed.

Here is how I have been told to do it. It sounds pretty solid but takes time.

Grow out all the seeds. 10 is fine 20 is better. After the lights have been dropped back and plants have shown sex. Breed all the males with all the females. Yep you are going to get a shit ton of seeds. Thing is, every bit of the genetic information that you purchased will be in there. While you may have some sub par seeds you are now going to have plenty of the phenos you want. For as long as you want. That is the best way to recreate a strain through a F-2. Most people will never have the time and space to do it that way.

If you were to use a great male and a great female out of the strain you purchased. You would still have a F-2. Things will be different than the original strain. How much those strains change has a lot to do with how and who made the original strain. Lots of times something unexpected happens. This is where some of new strains come from. They are just F-2's of someones strain renamed as their own.

I ramble a lot and these are only my opinion on it. I don't know if this helps or hurts LMAO.

 

[ChefDGreen]

Lots to consider. Do you have the time and the place to really do it right. Your plant counts will be enough for a decent pheno hunt. It is if you want to go to the trouble of making good F-2 seeds. For me I found it is easier to do hybrids or just save a clone and try and self it. Nothing wrong with F-2 seeds as long as you know what they are and how they were made.

First is the why. Mostly there are only 2 reasons for a F-2. For most of us it is because we need more seeds and don't want to buy them AGAIN. Sometimes F-2 is our only option. Breeders will do a F-2 run on occasion to find something they want for a back cross. The main thing to remember is that there is going to be a lot more variety. That could be good or bad.

My mentor makes lots of F-2 hybrids of the strains he buys. He ALWAYS does this the same way. Most people will not take the time to do it right. First he makes seeds the first run and looks for great plants after. The reason is he grows from seed as much as he does clones. This way he has plenty of seeds to go back to that strain at any time and find another plant to clone and run for a short time. He grows for sale only and changes strains quite a bit to keep people happy.

If you want to keep all the genetic information. You can't just use one male and one female. Even the most stable strain would be effected. These may be great seeds but genetic information has been lost. Maybe that genetic information you were looking for or needed.

Here is how I have been told to do it. It sounds pretty solid but takes time.

Grow out all the seeds. 10 is fine 20 is better. After the lights have been dropped back and plants have shown sex. Breed all the males with all the females. Yep you are going to get a shit ton of seeds. Thing is, every bit of the genetic information that you purchased will be in there. While you may have some sub par seeds you are now going to have plenty of the phenos you want. For as long as you want. That is the best way to recreate a strain through a F-2. Most people will never have the time and space to do it that way.

If you were to use a great male and a great female out of the strain you purchased. You would still have a F-2. Things will be different than the original strain. How much those strains change has a lot to do with how and who made the original strain. Lots of times something unexpected happens. This is where some of new strains come from. They are just F-2's of someones strain renamed as their own.

I ramble a lot and these are only my opinion on it. I don't know if this helps or hurts LMAO.

Thank you for the reply @Jackalope ! It most certainly helps!

You’re saying if I decide to pheno hunt F2s, the best way is open pollination. I kind of figured that. I don’t want to lose any of the genetic material and open pollination does just that. I was just wondering what someone more experienced would say cause I’ve never even grown a seeded harvest. I think that’s what I’ll do though. I believe I’ve got about 18 seeds left of my F1s. And I’ve got a couple of cuts out of the F1s that I really like. So yeah, I guess I’ll pop all 18 beans and just do a really fast veg and flower.

Good to know that my numbers will be high enough that I can find something real nice, and also unique to me.

That’s the biggest thing. I want a plant that’s uniquely mine ya know?

Thanks again Jackalope, you’ve confirmed the plan I had already kind of formulating.

 

[ChefDGreen]

@Jackalope ive got a follow up question. I’ve got some backcrossed gods gift regular seed, and I’m wondering what changes creating seed from a BC instead of an F1. Any input on that?

 

[Jackalope]

Of course I have input. Is it worth a shit is the big question LMAO.

I really have not dealt with backcrosses much at this point. The only backcross I have grown is a Snowdawg 3. It had mixed results. I don't know why they made the backcross I got them as freebies. Good weed but I don't think it is as good as Snowdawg 2. The what and why a backcross was made has a lot to do with it. There are lots of reasons for a backcross. Flavor, resin production, bud production, and plant structure are all reason for a backcross.

To make a backcross someone took a certain pheno of a strain. Then bred it back to one of the parents for one reason or another. Mostly to bring out wanted traits. The big question would be how they backcrossed that God's gift and to what? Grape God is a pretty good strain from what I hear. Maybe they bred back to it?

While it should end up producing more of that certain trait there are no guarantees. Just like breeding everything else. I have seen so much growing tons of strains over time. I have found you just don't know what seeds are going to do tell you grow them. I have grown great plants from lots of different sources.

Mostly if you liked the Gods Gift. Then you would probably like the BC. It all matters what the Backcross is on how I would value it. In most cases the F-1 will probably do better. Like I mentioned it all depends on the Backcross.