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starting mum on the oil-alcohol question

Lucia McM

New Member
Hi guys :D!

I have been reading the threads on 420 to get info on treating my mum with RSO-type oil. She is currently in hospital with very advanced pancreatic cancer (mets to liver, peritoneum, omentum, spleen, jejunum, small intestine, ugh, you name it- as usual, it was found late) so since she does not have privacy like she would at home I was looking for a way to administer it that would not get her high, we wouldn't want the staff to notice anything. Note that she has never used MJ before in any form and is severely cahectic and weak.
I wanted to thank you wonderful people for detailed instructions on how to tack the oil properly, that is exactly the info I needed and will try it Tuesday for the first time. Thank you so so much ( I think it was mostly Wingednut and Motoko or something like that who posted the instructions), I was worried I'd have to give her the cracker version..

I have some questions though.
a) The oil we got was made using food grade alcohol, what is called Everclear in your parts I think ( I went a long way to find someone who wasn't using butane or similar). The thing is, mum is very sensitive to alcohol- in the sense that the veins on her neck start hurting insanely even when she ingests trace amounts and the pain lasts quite a while. We never found out what was causing the pain but since she's already in so much pain from the cancer you can imagine I wouldn't want to provoke any more torture. The bloke who makes the oil told us the alcohol is only used for extraction and evaporates during the process so there should be no worries but reading some of the threads I'd come under the impression that there's still some residue alcohol left in the syringe- is that correct? Would that hurt her then? Any way I can get rid of the residue alcohol or do I need to buy new oil made with glycerin?
b) The guy also said first time users who want to be extra-sure they don't get any kind of high feel more comfortable using it on the skin the first time even if they don't have skin issues. As in, some of it would still be assimilated and you'd feel a gentler effect so you can get used to what it feels like before you tack. (he suggested the cracker but again, thank you for the tacking directions, we don't want mum high!) He mentioned if it's too sticky to dab on the skin to use some coconut oil or marigold salve with it so it's oilier (thank you for the grapeseed oil suggestions on this site, I have some at hand as I used to make home-made moisturizer). Would that "essential oil- type" approach really work? Should we cover the area of the skin with a band aid or leave it?
c) I was planning on having her tack 1/4 grain of rice size drop spread out through the day approximately every two hours, would that do for starters? I understand the first dose is after breakfast and brushing but in order to avoid the rest of the tacks through the day to reach the colon how long after tacking each dose should she not eat? Or would it be okay to tack just twice a day? (I'm not sure whether the oil is Indica or Sativa dominant but the guy said it just makes most people drowsy so I'm guessing we don't need a separate oil for night-time). Sorry I sound so confused, I'm completely new to the oil and as far as Mj goes I've smoked just enough to count on my fingers so I'm really not knowledgeable on the subject. Reading your posts I'm amazed at the number of savants on the subject, this page is a gold mine to me, keep it up gang :goodjob:!

I'm aware mum's cancer is very advanced and pancan has notoriously bad prognosis. Mind you, I realize I can't hope for survival. I'm hoping for a miracle but to me a miracle would be if mum was spared the excruciating non-stop pain, had a good night's sleep, enjoy a snack and have a peaceful, calm few moths with me rather then going in a fortnight escorted by the pain cavalry. Remission would be great. But I'm being realistic here-if die she must it sure makes a difference in HOW it happens. Really just want the oil to get her relief and the ability to enjoy the end of the journey aware of how loved and appreciated she is.

Best of luck to all of you here- whatever brought you here- and again immense thanks for educating and helping the less experienced among us. It's really usually our final hope and greatly appreciated.

Hugs to you all, your tips and opinions welcome!:thanks:
 

Antics

420 Member
I see you've read this already: https://www.420magazine.com/forums/cannabis-oil/217727-cannabis-oil-dosing-tutorial.html

That's a great start! Now when the oil is administered through 'tacking' it to the gums, there should be ZERO 'high' effects as long as it isn't swallowed.

a: If the oil is made correctly, the process involves using the alcohol to dissolve the natural oils, the liquid is then strained, which will contain oil and the alcohol. To separeate the two, the mixture is then heated, usually with a rice cooker, or similar device where temperature can be controlled. The idea is to decarboxylate the cannabinoids in the oil (this basically means activating all the medicine), and it also removes the alcohol. Now we will need Motoco's expert advice on if any alcohol remains in the oil after. He'll know better than anyone!
You can read here how the oil is made, if you haven't seen it already: https://www.420magazine.com/forums/cannabis-oil/217726-how-make-concentrated-cannabis-oil.html

b: Topical applications work amazing for skin type cancers, I have seen it work wonders on old scars, and it has amazing properties for healing externally, but I do believe the internal healing effects can be reduced. I have read that mixing a little Emu oil into the Cannabis oil can help greatly in aiding penetration of the oil into the skin, but we'll need Motoco here also, he has a lot of experience in this department!

c: a strain with 1:1 ratio of THC:CBD always seems to work best, the CBD works wonders for pain, and the THC has been proven time and time again to work in helping the body repair itself. The basic principle in cancer, is that they are mutated human cells that did not follow their preprogrammed cell expiration. Every human cell is supposed to be replaced after some time, this doesn't happen with cancer cells. The Cannabinoids are, if memory serves me correctly, PRO-Apoptosis, which means the Cannabinoids encourage cells to follow their programmed cell death, or PCD. That's basically how Cannabis oil works. It's simple yet amazing! I believe she can use ANY strain for treatment, but without a higher CBD level, it may not help as much for any associated pain. Do you know what strain it is?
I have also seen numerous studies, where the THC is the active Cannabinoid that works on Cancer cells, but I believe CBD may also assist. We'll need Motoco again. I really think we should call him DR. Motoco, he's very knowledgeable, and he actively uses the oil, and helps others as well.

I like you positive attitude as well! I have personally read stories of users who have had Stage 4 diagnosis, and have been cured with proper oil use. Everything you're asking for is completely possible, and nothing is out of the question. Keep a positive attitude and I'll send Motoco a PM to let him know to check this topic out to add his advice!
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Good day Lucia McM and welcome to 420 Magazine. I understand the condition of your Mum. Unfortunately that is the norm for pancreatic cancer to be detected when in advanced stages. To clarify has your Mum had any chemo/late stage radiation treatment? At this late stage and your Mum's weakness I would think chemo/late stage radiation would be too late, is this being discussed? As of now are they focused on getting your Mum strength built back up?

Planning what strains you need concerning the concentrated oil. You need a sativa dominate hybrid strain for your main cancer treatment (starting flower potency 20 plus THC). 60 grams

A high potency CBD strain (google what high CBD strains available in your region) 12 grams

A Indica strain as close to 100% as possible for sleep only. 8 grams

When you get the oil you will need to learn the tack method so you will know exactly how it 'tacks' and how it feels/works. Learning to 'tack' correctly out of the gate is paramount. Once she 'tacks' correctly the rest is downhill and becomes easy. Because of your Mums weakness it requires a special regimen. Baby steps are needed because it is just not the concentrate that is needed, but also hydration, nourishment and sleep are required also to nurse your Mums strength back while healing. Starting off the high CBD strain is of utmost importance to shrink the tumors and stop the advancement of the cancer.

You have found the correct intel. Stay focused and get whats needed. Don't be overwhelmed as your Mum needs someone with a clear head right now. Please check your PM in-box.

Hi guys :D!

I have been reading the threads on 420 to get info on treating my mum with RSO-type oil. She is currently in hospital with very advanced pancreatic cancer (mets to liver, peritoneum, omentum, spleen, jejunum, small intestine, ugh, you name it- as usual, it was found late) so since she does not have privacy like she would at home I was looking for a way to administer it that would not get her high, we wouldn't want the staff to notice anything. Note that she has never used MJ before in any form and is severely cahectic and weak.
I wanted to thank you wonderful people for detailed instructions on how to tack the oil properly, that is exactly the info I needed and will try it Tuesday for the first time. Thank you so so much ( I think it was mostly Wingednut and Motoko or something like that who posted the instructions), I was worried I'd have to give her the cracker version..

I have some questions though.
a) The oil we got was made using food grade alcohol, what is called Everclear in your parts I think ( I went a long way to find someone who wasn't using butane or similar). The thing is, mum is very sensitive to alcohol- in the sense that the veins on her neck start hurting insanely even when she ingests trace amounts and the pain lasts quite a while. We never found out what was causing the pain but since she's already in so much pain from the cancer you can imagine I wouldn't want to provoke any more torture. The bloke who makes the oil told us the alcohol is only used for extraction and evaporates during the process so there should be no worries but reading some of the threads I'd come under the impression that there's still some residue alcohol left in the syringe- is that correct? Would that hurt her then? Any way I can get rid of the residue alcohol or do I need to buy new oil made with glycerin?
b) The guy also said first time users who want to be extra-sure they don't get any kind of high feel more comfortable using it on the skin the first time even if they don't have skin issues. As in, some of it would still be assimilated and you'd feel a gentler effect so you can get used to what it feels like before you tack. (he suggested the cracker but again, thank you for the tacking directions, we don't want mum high!) He mentioned if it's too sticky to dab on the skin to use some coconut oil or marigold salve with it so it's oilier (thank you for the grapeseed oil suggestions on this site, I have some at hand as I used to make home-made moisturizer). Would that "essential oil- type" approach really work? Should we cover the area of the skin with a band aid or leave it?
c) I was planning on having her tack 1/4 grain of rice size drop spread out through the day approximately every two hours, would that do for starters? I understand the first dose is after breakfast and brushing but in order to avoid the rest of the tacks through the day to reach the colon how long after tacking each dose should she not eat? Or would it be okay to tack just twice a day? (I'm not sure whether the oil is Indica or Sativa dominant but the guy said it just makes most people drowsy so I'm guessing we don't need a separate oil for night-time). Sorry I sound so confused, I'm completely new to the oil and as far as Mj goes I've smoked just enough to count on my fingers so I'm really not knowledgeable on the subject. Reading your posts I'm amazed at the number of savants on the subject, this page is a gold mine to me, keep it up gang :goodjob:!

I'm aware mum's cancer is very advanced and pancan has notoriously bad prognosis. Mind you, I realize I can't hope for survival. I'm hoping for a miracle but to me a miracle would be if mum was spared the excruciating non-stop pain, had a good night's sleep, enjoy a snack and have a peaceful, calm few moths with me rather then going in a fortnight escorted by the pain cavalry. Remission would be great. But I'm being realistic here-if die she must it sure makes a difference in HOW it happens. Really just want the oil to get her relief and the ability to enjoy the end of the journey aware of how loved and appreciated she is.

Best of luck to all of you here- whatever brought you here- and again immense thanks for educating and helping the less experienced among us. It's really usually our final hope and greatly appreciated.

Hugs to you all, your tips and opinions welcome!:thanks:
 

Lucia McM

New Member
Thanks for the replies peeps, that was fast!

Okay, I'll try to clarify, if I forget something ask away, okay?

-yup, that's the tacking guide I've been reading. Brilliant stuff! It sounds a little tricky to the effect you probably need to get used to the right pressure before it's properly sticky to adhere in small dots. I moved back home to help her so I only have a short train ride to the hospital and I can stay with her there for the most part of the day which means I can help her tack and guide her through any possible high should she accidentally swallow anything. It shouldn't happen, the climate is warm here and I don't see the dot falling off the gum if it's nice and warm but I'll keep an eye out for that possibility.
-that's what the fellow said too, that the alcohol should have evaporated. I'm thinking even if it didn't she would only be tacking so perhaps not actually swallowing the trace amounts wouldn't do any harm. We will have to try, her pain is unbearable and i doubt it can get much worse, I can't watch this.
-correct mate, her doctors don't think chemo would make much sense and that it would probably just exhaust her further. She hasn't had any and so far is not considered a candidate. The same goes for resection of course. Considering the oil works better without having to fight the chemo damage that could actually helps us, right? She only takes stomach pills, a painkiller (combo paracetamol+tramadol. does nothing for her.it helped the first week but not anymore- it's been 7 weeks since diagnosis). She does get injections of painkillers (i'll ask her doc tomorrow what they are. these help a bit.) and has a fentanyl patch, they upped her and she's now on 50mg as the 25 didn't work and we'll have to wait a few days to see if the new dose helps. We're talking Schedule II opioid agonist so they can't rush the dose but she hasn't had any side effects so far. Perhaps the oil might add to the possible drowsiness side effect but that would be good as she rarely sleeps well. Any other interactions I should look out for? She's taking all her drugs well for now (well, other than they don't WORK) so my guess is she should feel well with the oil.
-ah, strain. have no clue (I'll ring him up and ask, that's the only way I can be sure, will let you know). Most of the stuff that's home-grown here (like this guy does) is a kind of a mix of indica-sativa i'm told but that's as precise as I can be and I usually judge by the effects of it when smoked. I only smoked a little in my entire life time but could distinctly tell the ones that came from a neighboring country were usually indica dom. as they made me sit lethargically and stare into space and if I smoked on two successive days I'd start to feel a tad depressed. As for the sativa dominant, well, that's easy, I cleaned and scrubbed for hours with a clear focused mind lol! Neither gave me problems sleeping as usually after munching I wouldn't feel high anymore but just sleepy. Snacks seem to take care of a lot of things :D. Well, that's my layperson's assessment lol, I know homegrown stuff felt strongly like sativa. I could be totally wrong and will have to ask someone who's more savant of our local herbs about that. Btw Motoco, flower potency? :hmmmm: another thing I'll have to ask the grower, i have no idea! Feeling so clumsy, have very little experience with MJ. (btw- i had moderate MS-like neuro symptoms and sometimes a joint of home grown stuff provoked a tonic seizure. I know it's supposed to help with seizures and have heard other patients claim it helped theirs but my guess is it takes a certain strain for that and I was smoking the wrong stuff for my condition. Does that info help you, is it possible a sativa dom. would exacerbate seizures? mine were due to an infection if that's helpful info. It also made me drop weight fast which is another reason I suspected it was mostly Sat. I'm okay now btw, that was long ago and it did help with my pain, just the seizures thingy happened, but only one episode was really bad. My boyfriend at the time smoked the same stuff and gained weight. Confused.But he smoked a lot more, i just had a total of a few joints and a couple of blunts.)
-they gave her those highly nutritious drinks at the hospital, hers is Fresubin and she just got so sick of the cappucino taste that after a while she couldn't take them any more. I suggested she tried to take at least a sip or two to up her calorie intake and she has really been trying ( I'm told by cancer patients downing a small bottle can feel like torture but I'm glad she tried!) and even though her weight is still low I definitely see an improvement in her skin and face,doesn't look so starved any more. She's starting to resemble herself again somewhat and if the oil helps with her appetite I think we may soon be done with the worst of this cahexia thing- a small victory for us! Will try adding some whey powder if she gets tired of the Fresubin again. I don't think she fully understands the importance of staying hydrated, esp. on the oil but I will be there with her making sure she sips regularly.
-i'm with you on the baby steps, she's so frail. Would 1/4 of a grain of rice be enough to start tacking with? Until I'm sure of the strain and cbd:thc ratio should we just tack in the morning to avoid keeping her awake at night in case there's more sativa there?

I'll get back with the more technical info on her oil when I hear from the grower, if there's anything else feel free to remind me.

Still looking for my private messages, might take me a while mate but i'll find them :)

Positive...Dunno, I'm really really trying but of course I'm also heartbroken to tell you the truth. I love her to bits and she's my only family and an angel of a person. Can't believe this is happening. But I'll tell you this. She's one strong woman. And MMJ is hope if ever there was such a thing. If nothing more, I'd be grateful if she passed humanely. No more of this torture. But cure..oh boy, you can imagine I'd ask nothing more ever again if that happened, what wouldn't i give for that!

Thank you both so much for your input, it means the world to me!

p.s. just to make sure- we don't know the strain and cbd/thc ratio but do i "have your blessings" to get her to tack 1/4 grain of rice in the morning or should I abort mission until we have more info? I'm eager to start yesterday but wouldn't want to jeopardize her of course.
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
At the top left you will see a tab 'User CP' left click and click on Private message. You definitely want a sativa dominate strain for the cancer (60 grams) you will want 6 grams of pure indica (as close as you can get) for sleep only. It would help immensely if you could get 10 grams of a high CBD strain also. Healing on Indica only is a depressant while the sativa is up lifting in mind and wellness feeling. Have no doubt in your mind this is the real deal for killing cancer. If have to know the correct way. Try your PM again. Thanks

Thanks for the replies peeps, that was fast!

Okay, I'll try to clarify, if I forget something ask away, okay?

-yup, that's the tacking guide I've been reading. Brilliant stuff! It sounds a little tricky to the effect you probably need to get used to the right pressure before it's properly sticky to adhere in small dots. I moved back home to help her so I only have a short train ride to the hospital and I can stay with her there for the most part of the day which means I can help her tack and guide her through any possible high should she accidentally swallow anything. It shouldn't happen, the climate is warm here and I don't see the dot falling off the gum if it's nice and warm but I'll keep an eye out for that possibility.
-that's what the fellow said too, that the alcohol should have evaporated. I'm thinking even if it didn't she would only be tacking so perhaps not actually swallowing the trace amounts wouldn't do any harm. We will have to try, her pain is unbearable and i doubt it can get much worse, I can't watch this.
-correct mate, her doctors don't think chemo would make much sense and that it would probably just exhaust her further. She hasn't had any and so far is not considered a candidate. The same goes for resection of course. Considering the oil works better without having to fight the chemo damage that could actually helps us, right? She only takes stomach pills, a painkiller (combo paracetamol+tramadol. does nothing for her.it helped the first week but not anymore- it's been 7 weeks since diagnosis). She does get injections of painkillers (i'll ask her doc tomorrow what they are. these help a bit.) and has a fentanyl patch, they upped her and she's now on 50mg as the 25 didn't work and we'll have to wait a few days to see if the new dose helps. We're talking Schedule II opioid agonist so they can't rush the dose but she hasn't had any side effects so far. Perhaps the oil might add to the possible drowsiness side effect but that would be good as she rarely sleeps well. Any other interactions I should look out for? She's taking all her drugs well for now (well, other than they don't WORK) so my guess is she should feel well with the oil.
-ah, strain. have no clue (I'll ring him up and ask, that's the only way I can be sure, will let you know). Most of the stuff that's home-grown here (like this guy does) is a kind of a mix of indica-sativa i'm told but that's as precise as I can be and I usually judge by the effects of it when smoked. I only smoked a little in my entire life time but could distinctly tell the ones that came from a neighboring country were usually indica dom. as they made me sit lethargically and stare into space and if I smoked on two successive days I'd start to feel a tad depressed. As for the sativa dominant, well, that's easy, I cleaned and scrubbed for hours with a clear focused mind lol! Neither gave me problems sleeping as usually after munching I wouldn't feel high anymore but just sleepy. Snacks seem to take care of a lot of things :D. Well, that's my layperson's assessment lol, I know homegrown stuff felt strongly like sativa. I could be totally wrong and will have to ask someone who's more savant of our local herbs about that. Btw Motoco, flower potency? :hmmmm: another thing I'll have to ask the grower, i have no idea! Feeling so clumsy, have very little experience with MJ. (btw- i had moderate MS-like neuro symptoms and sometimes a joint of home grown stuff provoked a tonic seizure. I know it's supposed to help with seizures and have heard other patients claim it helped theirs but my guess is it takes a certain strain for that and I was smoking the wrong stuff for my condition. Does that info help you, is it possible a sativa dom. would exacerbate seizures? mine were due to an infection if that's helpful info. It also made me drop weight fast which is another reason I suspected it was mostly Sat. I'm okay now btw, that was long ago and it did help with my pain, just the seizures thingy happened, but only one episode was really bad. My boyfriend at the time smoked the same stuff and gained weight. Confused.But he smoked a lot more, i just had a total of a few joints and a couple of blunts.)
-they gave her those highly nutritious drinks at the hospital, hers is Fresubin and she just got so sick of the cappucino taste that after a while she couldn't take them any more. I suggested she tried to take at least a sip or two to up her calorie intake and she has really been trying ( I'm told by cancer patients downing a small bottle can feel like torture but I'm glad she tried!) and even though her weight is still low I definitely see an improvement in her skin and face,doesn't look so starved any more. She's starting to resemble herself again somewhat and if the oil helps with her appetite I think we may soon be done with the worst of this cahexia thing- a small victory for us! Will try adding some whey powder if she gets tired of the Fresubin again. I don't think she fully understands the importance of staying hydrated, esp. on the oil but I will be there with her making sure she sips regularly.
-i'm with you on the baby steps, she's so frail. Would 1/4 of a grain of rice be enough to start tacking with? Until I'm sure of the strain and cbd:thc ratio should we just tack in the morning to avoid keeping her awake at night in case there's more sativa there?

I'll get back with the more technical info on her oil when I hear from the grower, if there's anything else feel free to remind me.

Still looking for my private messages, might take me a while mate but i'll find them :)

Positive...Dunno, I'm really really trying but of course I'm also heartbroken to tell you the truth. I love her to bits and she's my only family and an angel of a person. Can't believe this is happening. But I'll tell you this. She's one strong woman. And MMJ is hope if ever there was such a thing. If nothing more, I'd be grateful if she passed humanely. No more of this torture. But cure..oh boy, you can imagine I'd ask nothing more ever again if that happened, what wouldn't i give for that!

Thank you both so much for your input, it means the world to me!

p.s. just to make sure- we don't know the strain and cbd/thc ratio but do i "have your blessings" to get her to tack 1/4 grain of rice in the morning or should I abort mission until we have more info? I'm eager to start yesterday but wouldn't want to jeopardize her of course.
 

Lucia McM

New Member
ditto Motoko, found and read.

the syringe I currently have is 5grams. It's made of the stuff that felt like sativa to me when smoked. I thought sativas were higher in cbd and indicas higher in thc but i guess it's more complicated than that?
To avoid any confusion i'll ask the grower directly and let you know. Will see if I can get a pure indica, not sure i have seen it in oil form but i could get the herb and have it made into an oil. Although, i noticed in a different thread i would need a LOT of grass for that..Need to make a few phone calls to see what I can get. Concerning cbd high ones, I think I've heard of cbd kush? I just asked someone and they mentioned durga mata had about 8.5% is that high? Will keep up my inquiries and keep you posted.
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Hi Lucia,

Smoking is not the best way to judge how the oil is going to be. It is complete opposite when you get stoned.

One pound of high grade flowers is needed for 60 grams of concentrated oil. Again; Sativa dominant and the flower starting at 20% THC +. The higher the better. This is our main focus right now.

10-12 grams of high CBD strain (your talking about 8.5% potency in the concentrate?). That would be o.k. for nighttime oil but I would like to see around 25-30 % CBD to shrink inflammation and tumors (stops the cancer from spreading).

If need be though we could use what you got for nighttime with 8.5% CBD.

Keep trolling and good luck!
 

Lucia McM

New Member
Ahhh, i was going on what kind of high it gave me- admittedly, not the most scientific method of analysis!
A pound of good bud sounds doable. I think I could get that. Will also read the instructions on making the oil again to make sure I get everything I need in case I'll be making it myself.
Just heard from the grower, he says it's (the oil) a thc high indica and should only be used in the evening, that it wouldn't make one comatose but drowsiness is sure to set in.(p.s. these are the types that can also help with pain, right? I'll go read that chart again, that was handy.) He only grows this type but could ask around for a strong sativa. Someone somewhere must have cannatonic or harelquin, i'll sniff 'em out. I have one 5ml syringe of this oil but he's easy to get in touch with so if this works nicely i can get more.
Gotta go see mum now and should have some more info on sativas by the time i'm back. Might be late in the evening. Thanks to all chiming in, it's much appreciated as i feel confused in this MJ maze.
Good health and green regards :)
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
I believe in the U.K. CBD Shark is popular. Perhaps someone can pipe in on this? What the grower said is true except when someone is really weak, drowsiness can feel like comatose. Exactly what you want for sleep. For right now I would do a small dose (1/4 grain of rice) right after dinner and at bed time the same amount. See how she feels in the a.m. after breakfast. If not really lethargic another 1/4 grain of rice. Right now the best thing your mom can do is to learn to 'tack' correctly. Make sure she gets as much as possible on her gums. The bad thing with Indica when learning to tack is that it is a fine line between euphoric and relaxed. Its easy for an experienced traveler to tell the difference but not when first introduced to the oil. For now lets keep with this. Don't rush on the Sativa dominant/hybrid just because you find one, make sure to check out the stats, if they add up, nice, if they don't keep looking.

Guess everyone is making Indica dominant RSO. Make sure to read the testimony's of canjencelt, beemerbill, canna and pay close attention to budnoobs. Indica does not work during the day and sativa doesn't work at night. Thing is with sativa it can double as day time - night time if need be. No way can you make couch lock indica work during the day, especially if you have to work. That being said Indica gives one the best sleep ever.

You cannot learn everything in one day, don't try to as it only leads to confusion. Just stay focused on priorities which is sativa and high cbd strain. You have oil in the mean time and your mom can learn to tack properly. Your Indica has 8.5% cbd for pain right now, so all is good. You know Indica is easy to get so no worries there. Priority now is sativa then high CBD which ever comes first. If the high cbd strain was harvested early to mid term that 'up' could be blended with some Indica and same with sativa if problems arise.

Ahhh, i was going on what kind of high it gave me- admittedly, not the most scientific method of analysis!
A pound of good bud sounds doable. I think I could get that. Will also read the instructions on making the oil again to make sure I get everything I need in case I'll be making it myself.
Just heard from the grower, he says it's (the oil) a thc high indica and should only be used in the evening, that it wouldn't make one comatose but drowsiness is sure to set in.(p.s. these are the types that can also help with pain, right? I'll go read that chart again, that was handy.) He only grows this type but could ask around for a strong sativa. Someone somewhere must have cannatonic or harelquin, i'll sniff 'em out. I have one 5ml syringe of this oil but he's easy to get in touch with so if this works nicely i can get more.
Gotta go see mum now and should have some more info on sativas by the time i'm back. Might be late in the evening. Thanks to all chiming in, it's much appreciated as i feel confused in this MJ maze.
Good health and green regards :)
 

Lucia McM

New Member
We did it, tacked a quarter of a grain about 3 hours before bedtime, all was well. then at bedtime another quarter. nothing dramatic, but she's mentioning her digestion is improving and that takes away of quite some abdominal discomfort. her spasms aren't as strong these last two days either. i don't know whether that was the oil working so quickly or whether it's because they've upped her morphine patch.
she was a little drowsy today but not too much, just looked calmer. hopefully that means she'll be able to get a good night's sleep tonight.
tacking is quite hard. it took like 15 minutes the first time and ended up looking more like a smudge than dots but at least it held to the gums.
i found a cancer patient who gets cannatonic oil frequently so if that's useful i can get that too. thoughts?
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Yes get the cannatonic! Tacking gets easier. One thing ever one says "I don't know if its the oil working or not', its the oil.

I have a concern with the morphine patches. How long has she been on them? Once you get the cannatonic (asap) we need to work on weening off the morphine. With Indica oil it can be dangerous using both. The cannatonic will take its place and in much better fashion. Always take the oil first before any other meds. It controls their side effects. Is she using two patches of morphine (one on each arm?).
 

Lucia McM

New Member
the patches have been on for over a week, starting with 25mg and then they upped them to 50 mg and yesterday they added another 25 mg patch right next to the 50 mg one. both on her chest. i think this is the 10th day. it's fentanyl, a replacement for morphine but it is an opoid. she used to get Piritramide injections, another morphine replacement but hasn't gotten one since tuesday, they only give her those when the pain is the worst but it has eased a little the last few days. Her stomach feels better and she's calmer.
Trying the cannatonic tomorrow and will ask whether there's something else they could give her for the pain. thing is the pain gets so bad even the opoids don't do much. my hope is the oil helps with that and we can ditch most of her other drugs. She didn't even get the psyochoactive effects of the opoids, whereas some patients tend to get severe ones, hallucinations included :hmmmm:
 

Lucia McM

New Member
heyy folks, just dropping by with great news, she slept like a log without ANY pain all night! This hasn't happened since the diagnosis! Woke up asking for a bagel and ice cream and she otherwise barely eats! :yahoo:
still regular bowel movements.
I'm stunned!
I got up at 3 am to get the cannatonic and she tacked that this morning, so far so good.
Holy smokes this thing works fast!
Maybe weening her off the patches won't be as difficult as I thought.
 

Antics

420 Member
heyy folks, just dropping by with great news, she slept like a log without ANY pain all night! This hasn't happened since the diagnosis! Woke up asking for a bagel and ice cream and she otherwise barely eats! :yahoo:
still regular bowel movements.
I'm stunned!
I got up at 3 am to get the cannatonic and she tacked that this morning, so far so good.
Holy smokes this thing works fast!
Maybe weening her off the patches won't be as difficult as I thought.

That's awesome news! I'm happy to hear that it worked so quickly for her :high-five:
Keep us updated!! We love to read these amazing stories, and can help more if/when needed!
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
That is how it works on pain, asap if not sooner! Yes, ween off the patches now that you have cannatonic. She has not taken enough morphine to be addicted now. Start by removing the latest patch of morphine. Always dose the cannatonic first in the a.m. followed 15 minutes later with the high THC strain. Every 2 days remove the patch. Opinionated advice; no asking for man made meds for anything. You have the kit now for the heal. The cannatonic oil should have some up in it and now you can use what you have. Cannatonic in the a.m. first dose followed 15 minutes late with the thc indica. another indica dose a couple hours latter (grain of rice) after lunch another dose of cannatonic followed again 15 minutes later by the indica. Another indica dose right after dinner. Bed time cannatonic dose followed by indica dose for sleep. This is where you need to start working up to. Making sure each dose is taken properly. The up of the cannatonic will make the Indica a do-able especially to make sure to take the cannatonic first. Get off the morphine patches. The cannatonic will not only replace those for pain but stop the cancer from growing and shrinking tumors. Your off to the races Lucia. Make sure mom is hydrated at all times and eating properly. It only gets better. And to think she can heal her cancer feeling well :)

the patches have been on for over a week, starting with 25mg and then they upped them to 50 mg and yesterday they added another 25 mg patch right next to the 50 mg one. both on her chest. i think this is the 10th day. it's fentanyl, a replacement for morphine but it is an opoid. she used to get Piritramide injections, another morphine replacement but hasn't gotten one since tuesday, they only give her those when the pain is the worst but it has eased a little the last few days. Her stomach feels better and she's calmer.
Trying the cannatonic tomorrow and will ask whether there's something else they could give her for the pain. thing is the pain gets so bad even the opoids don't do much. my hope is the oil helps with that and we can ditch most of her other drugs. She didn't even get the psyochoactive effects of the opoids, whereas some patients tend to get severe ones, hallucinations included :hmmmm:
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Hi Lucia,

LOL @ 'Holy smokes this stuff works fast! Yes sir, it does indeed. Nothing better in the world for pain, inflammation. Patches be gone :)
Amazingly in late stage cancer people can feel better than they felt before they had cancer, while healing. Sounds like an appealing option :)

Your on the right track now. Just make sure she takes the concentrate properly and never rush a dose. Soon your Mum will make rapid advances. Thank you for making our day! Remember, it keeps getting better and better.

God Bless

heyy folks, just dropping by with great news, she slept like a log without ANY pain all night! This hasn't happened since the diagnosis! Woke up asking for a bagel and ice cream and she otherwise barely eats! :yahoo:
still regular bowel movements.
I'm stunned!
I got up at 3 am to get the cannatonic and she tacked that this morning, so far so good.
Holy smokes this thing works fast!
Maybe weening her off the patches won't be as difficult as I thought.
 

Lucia McM

New Member
Still barely eats (does it sometimes take a few days before you get regular munchies?) but the pain is definitely subsiding! It's present just not nearly as bad as what she usually gets. That's a HUGE relief. She's suspiciously drowsy, I mean she now sleeps a LOT. While it makes sense to a certain extent because she couldn't get enough sleep while in hospital (pain+ old confused demented patients screaming randomly in the middle of the night) I think it may be the indica. However, it's nice to see her sleeping finally. The cannatonic should up her during the day once we get a sufficient concentration I think. She did perk up a bit about two hours after taking it and that lasted another couple of hours and she took a small walk but mostly snoozed through the remainder of the day. I took the small patch off. The directions say you should taper off rather than discontinue use abruptly (something to do with the possibility of dangerous breathing complications and seizures) so I'm thinking I'll cut half of the bigger patch off in about an hour and remove the other half in the morning (12 hour pauses between taking patches off). She has an "SOS" pill to take one half of should the pain get bad and hasn't needed it at all :thumb:! Bye bye narcotics..

Motoko, we've so far been tacking 1/4 grain of rice of the indica and 1/2 today, is it safe to up to a whole grain or should we do 1/2 for a couple of days first? It's very hard to tack a tiny amount.
With cannatonic I also used 1/4 of a grain. How long before I should start upping that?

You folks are awesome :circle-of-love:, wish I had found this site sooner, god knows how much of the crap she's been through we could have avoided.
 

Antics

420 Member
Ok I'll help where I can here!

The appetite stimulant effect you're looking for won't happen with tacking. I believe it goes hand in hand with the "high" effect. There may be other ways to stimulate appetite, but Motoco will need to drop in on those.

I read a bit about using concentrated oil, and it seems normal to cause drowsiness, and from what I've read, they encourage the person using the oil not to fight it, and sleep. It gets much needed rest, and can help the body heal faster. She's probably getting some really, really solid and restful sleep now. And who knows when the last time she slept this well was!

I can't help with specifics of dosing yet, since I'm still learning myself. But so far, everything you've updated with your mum sounds perfectly normal compared to other stories I've read, and I'm really glad you found us! You'll be two more folks in the world that can say how much Cannabis oil helps, and it helps spread the word that much faster to get this medicine legal and available for more people to use!
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Stay on the half grain of rice for a couple days more before you progress up to a grain. That is the issue healing on indica alone...just tired and lethargic all day.

Start the day off with a half grain of rice of cannatonic, make sure she doses properly. Wait 15 minutes; then take a 1/2 grain of rice of Indica. Exactly the same dose as mentioned right after lunch. Another half grain of cannatonic in between lunch and dinner. Then after dinner a half grain of rice of indica. 1-2 hours before bed another half grain of rice of Indica. So now it will be built up to a total of 3.5 grains of rice. As far as the morphine goes we will be weening off, she was just put on the extra booster patch so that will be easy to remove. The cannatonic will take over immediately for pain. If pain arises you take a little booster of cannatonic. This is the regimen right now. Its not how much you take its how many times. This keeps things in a safe manner.

Keep in mind as you mentioned, tired from the hospital stay, etc. Make sure your mum drinks a lot of water (helps flush the toxins out) and eats/snacks throughout the day. Soups are nutritious and easy to eat. Right now the most important thing is getting her strength back. We will be upping the dose soon enough. Right now as mentioned, building up her strength, rest and hydration is key.

You last statement is so true. The difference between healing on he concentrate compared to chemo/late stage radiation; one you can actually start feeling better than before you had cancer, chemo/radiation is pain and suffering while killing your body. Also look at the side effects of chemo/late stage radiation, its cancer. All folks that have used the concentrate after chemo wished the same thing. So if this is politically incorrect to mention this, the truth shall set you free. Most still shun the concentrate over chemo, just because its the way our medical system is. Lets face it, we believe what we are taught whether it is the truth or not.

Its a learning curve, your on the right track, remember, eat, hydrate and if pain gets worse more CBD concentrate. :)

Your Mums appetite will pick up, chemo/morphine causes nausea and appetite suppressant. So work cutting those patches down and get rid of them by replacing with cbd. If pain increases take a small booster of cbd. It isn't even seated in her system yet. When it does, no pain, period. Keep in mind also to have her change positions often. Prop her legs up on some pillows and have her move her feet back and forth and in circles. Helps relieve pain and a little exercise while rebuilding her strenght. Sit, lay, prop the legs often. You will see much improvement.


Still barely eats (does it sometimes take a few days before you get regular munchies?) but the pain is definitely subsiding! It's present just not nearly as bad as what she usually gets. That's a HUGE relief. She's suspiciously drowsy, I mean she now sleeps a LOT. While it makes sense to a certain extent because she couldn't get enough sleep while in hospital (pain+ old confused demented patients screaming randomly in the middle of the night) I think it may be the indica. However, it's nice to see her sleeping finally. The cannatonic should up her during the day once we get a sufficient concentration I think. She did perk up a bit about two hours after taking it and that lasted another couple of hours and she took a small walk but mostly snoozed through the remainder of the day. I took the small patch off. The directions say you should taper off rather than discontinue use abruptly (something to do with the possibility of dangerous breathing complications and seizures) so I'm thinking I'll cut half of the bigger patch off in about an hour and remove the other half in the morning (12 hour pauses between taking patches off). She has an "SOS" pill to take one half of should the pain get bad and hasn't needed it at all :thumb:! Bye bye narcotics..

Motoko, we've so far been tacking 1/4 grain of rice of the indica and 1/2 today, is it safe to up to a whole grain or should we do 1/2 for a couple of days first? It's very hard to tack a tiny amount.
With cannatonic I also used 1/4 of a grain. How long before I should start upping that?

You folks are awesome :circle-of-love:, wish I had found this site sooner, god knows how much of the crap she's been through we could have avoided.
 

Lucia McM

New Member
Thank you both, I read the replies 3 or 4 days ago but was in a hurry and unable to reply- I am following the instructions though (still have to write them down until it becomes second nature).
She was home for the weekend and did fine on saturday but then hell broke loose sunday afternoon and she got ghastly pains that lasted until monday. Monday i bring her back to the hospital thinking they'll tend to her pain and to my utter shock I found out that the doctor took his time and only dropped by in the afternoon and arranged for the anesthesiologist to suggest alternative pain management. They can't do entirely without opiates (not opioids anymore, they don't work so it's opiates now. CRAP.) but they're keeping her on a minimal dose and considering putting in the epidural catheter- that could help enough to ween her of the painkillers alltogether.
The other shock was this morning I walked into the hospital room to find her in tears and in pain, asked whether the doctors had a look at her and again she tells me she's been literally begging them to help her with the pain and they ignored her completely for a whole three hours. So of course I stormed into the nurses station wreaking havoc and luck would have it her idiot doctor was there and I threatened with lawsuits and whatnot that should it ever happen again that they don't tend to her, considering she's critical I'd send a lawfirm to deal with him. It was a long and tiresome fight after which the doc and anesthesiologist walked into the room telling my mother bluntly that she's dying, that they can't control the pain, that it will keep getting worse and soon and that she should simply accept it. I don't need to explain the devastating effect that had on her as her previous doc was the exact opposite- encouraging her to not give up, to stay positive and fight it and not for a moment did he make her feel like she should just die asap to spare him the trouble.
After my raging they agreed to insert a port so that they could administer very small amounts of watered down opiates. that way they can be administered when needed only and the dose would still be minimal. she could even have a nurse come by to give her the shots when at home- since they're mostly neglecting her at the hospital I'd like to see her home soon. Hoping she will opt for the epidural so we can get her off these watered down shots and just use the oil. She asked to have a few more days to think about it (another patient she shared the room with had it and hers was very very uncomfortable and painful even, not allowing the lady to move at all so mum wants to be sure hers would allow her to still be able to move and not cause any more pain).

The silver lining in all this crap with doctors hasting her to the grave is she's even more keen on the oil. She even tried eating a bit more just to prove the murderers wrong.

So sadly she hasn't had much pain relief yet but her cancer is everywhere and she hasn't been taking the oil for very long yet. We will keep on keeping on and I'll update whenever I can.

To anyone else reading this for treatment information- know that my mum is clinically considered just weeks away from dying. If you're considering the oil and it turns out to not cure her, don't give up! Use the freaking oil. Doctors are quick to write people off and save the costs and work involved in treating advanced cases. You've nothing to lose and the world is full of wonderful testimonials of people who've been in remission for years thanks to the oil. Let's hope it helps mum. If not, the rest of you need to keep fighting. Rest assured the system won't fight for you.

Please pardon the rage and ranting, it's been an overwhelmingly difficult few days.

Love and encouragement to all!
 
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