Stevehman's 780W LED - DIY 4 in PVC Recirc - Caramlicious Grow

[cryodude]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

i know you have probly answered this a bunch but ive been knockin my head off this screen for what seems like a couple weeks now on hid vs led vs high watt cfls.

ive knocked the cfls out for sure and ive gotten pretty comfy with the hid's but are the leds really worth it? power bill wise?

are the buds comparable?

and do you have the advanced 180w with the all 3w's or the hybrid? which do you think would be better? the 180w hybrid is less money.

BlazinUSA, i have been following Steve's grows for several months, the Advanced 180 he has is the newer one, its all 3w led's and punches out 180W in light, and another 20 watts in fans/power supply overhead. the hybrid is a mixture of higher and lower watt leds and isn't the same, thus why it's cheaper. The GLH 300's he is running are last years version before GLH changed them to the new Spectra series. His last grow buds were really nice, this batch is even better, it's not just the lights though, his system is more efficient, has CO2, better control of the water temps in the res with his new higher efficiency chiller, etc. But LED lights will grow awesome buds now, but part of that is the strain, the other equipment and the growers expertise/care too.

 

[cryodude]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

power consumption will be at least 1/2 of what the HID's are and no heat signature, no extra cooling required along with other issues associated with the higher room temps with HID. Plus the lights should last at least 5 years roughly before you have problems with diodes, etc.. especially with higher quality LED lights. GLH new lights, the Spectra series, have 5 year warranty and 120 day MBG. so if a person was ready to do short veg, and flower, you'd have enough time for a complete grow and evaluate them based on the results and have time contact them if you were really unhappy with the results. From what i have seen, growers who have time under their belts with the LED's are getting really good results and talking of higher quality. Take that for what it's worth, but it's out there a lot, just do some goggle searches and more readying.

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Thanks Cryo, I could not have put it better myself. I have been swamped with work and appreciate the assist.

 

[cryodude]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

heh, no problem Steve. I feel like part of this grow i have been here so long reading, following and commenting on things. I really hope to get started again, by the end of May. Wish it was sooner but things just aren't going fast enough for me.

 

[Hydrologist]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

hey steve, havn't heard back from you on this post so I thought i'd repost in case you havn't seen it:

Hydro,
Pick up the cone bit at Harbor Freight for about $9 (a set of 3), they also have cheap hole saws which are adequate for cutting plastic. Also H2O2 is cheaper if you buy it from somewhere other than a hydro store. Google Food Grade H2O2 and look for stuff in the 35% range. Most other types of H2O2 have stabilizers that are not safe for consumption (you can use H2O2 for a bunch of other uses, a few drops in your milk will keep it from spoiling for a longer time).

Why not have a splitter or "Y" that connect to the bottom of each bucket and another that feeds the chilled nutes back to the top of each bucket. That should keep them both in the same range. If I was doing it though, I would use 1-1/2 uniseals on each bucket and do a undercurrent style system with an external res. I sent you the link to the uniseals last month, they're cheaper than bulkheads, watertight and easy to use.

I'll be posting my updates in the morning.

first response: dont quite understand the Y idea...can u draw it for me? and at the moment im tight on space and dont really want an external rez, no point at all to me honestly right now with only two plants, maybe if I had an RO and wanted to install a float vaulve to keep water levels perfect. I am looking for simplicity and space saving. I just want my water to be level in both buckets, do you think i can achieve this without an external rez? if I just upgrade the connection between the buckets from 3/4 to maybe 1-2inch PVC? Or maybe that connector set you mentioned before and sent me the link to?


second response:
wait, i think i know what your talking about with the Y connectors. basically have two top feeds that connect to the single "out port" from the chiller correct? Well for that idea I believe I would need two pumps, one per pucket to feed it back and that takes up room and kinda jacks the price up and does the same exact thing with alittle bit more efficiency? You saw the size of the chiller im using yeah? Im using that giant mother fucker on 6 gallons of water, and so far I havn't been noticing it work all that hard,even in the long term I can't see it being a problem, plus im using a 386 gallon per hour pump to keep things flowing nice and quick.

I've never heard of Harbor Freight But i'll look it up because I really need that bit I hope I can really get it 4 that cheap!
Yeah I know I kinda got ripped on the h202 but I gatta say im pretty stoked on the 50% Heks had a bit of Pythium, not nearly as bad as my two girls and he's been using a ml a day for the past 3 days and its practically erradicated, except near where the roots meet the net pot. Still slimy up there meh.

let me know what you think about that set up.
Hydro

 

[Hydrologist]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Damn Steve you really know your stuff when it comes to where to buy stuff!! I can't believe Harbor Freight is selling exactly what I need EXCEPT BETTER for less than half the price that lame ass HOME DEPOT is charging!!! For the single fat version of this cone speed drill bit with steps its almost 60 fucking dollars for the same exact thing!!! Harbor freight not only gives you 2 (a big one and a little one) but the fact that they are selling it for 14.99 blows my mind.
THANK YOU STEVE!!!
Titanium Nitride Coated Steel Step Drill Bit Set

p.s I think I know who i'll be nominating for member of the month may 2011

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Hydro,
I'll see if I can get a quick sketch put together on my thoughts for the "y" connector, or you could also use a "t" connector (PVC). You would need an external pump though to make the system work. If you want to use your current pump, then definitely go with larger PVC between the buckets to keep them level with each other. I would also think about drawing the nutes from one bucket and having the return line go to the other, sort of a mini undercurrent design. But you would need to have the larger pipe.

The reason I like and external res is that it is actually easier to maintain a larger volume of nutes than a small one. Sam principal in aquariums. A larger salt water system is easier to maintain and requires less maintenance (I know it sounds counter intuitive). If you make a small mistake on a small system the results are magnified, if that mistake is spread out over 26 gallons (vice 6) it is minimized. That goes with pH adjustments, nute levels, temps are more constant (unless like you, you are running chill-zilla) and you don't have to check levels so often. A top-off res helps immensely as well. I think the more stable I can keep everything the better.

Harbor Freight is the bomb. I can drive to one relatively close to where I live. They always have online coupons, in the Sunday paper and in the back of Maxim magazine. Usually a 20% coupon, and a free flashlight. I've purchased several fountain pumps from them and they're about $19 on sale for a 256gph.

It would be cool to get member and nug of the month in the same month (or back to back). I think I'll have a few buds worthy of entry next month. I'm posting my update in a few minutes. All of the data and pics are from yesterday.

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Day 54 in 12/12:

Res temp 64 (dropped the res temps a couple degrees)
pH 5.21
ppm 895
ec 1796
temp 83
RH 68%

I added 20ml Micro, 60ml Bloom, 40ml Sweet, 40ml Liquid Karma, 20ml Hydroplex, 20ml Cal/Mag, 20ml Silica and a capful of Hygrozyme to res to bring the numbers up to:

pH 5.5
ppm 1133
ec 2260

Trying to keep the ppm's in the 1100 range. Next week will be the res change and will be substituting Overdrive in place of the Hydroplex for the last two weeks prior to tapering down (a semi-flush). I think Cinco de Mayo may be the chop date. I'll be keeping a close eye on the trichs for the next two weeks and will get some more up close digi-scope pics up later.

Here are updated pics from yesterday.

Starting off with a sneak peek at Grow 4.0. These girls need to kick it into gear fast if they expect to be cloned in 2-3 weeks. I will run a CO2 line to them to give them a little extra encouragement. The Powerkush didn't make it, got very leggy and fell over when put under the T5, tried to prop her back up but no love. So here are the Pineapple Chunk, Twilight and Gigabud seedlings, I will pop a few of the Heavy Duty Fruity seeds (not femmed) and see if I can get a girl out of them.

The buds are starting to get heavy, I've had to add some support wire for a few of them. I didn't have this issue last grow (although last grow I had monster stems fro vegging for so long).

The obligatory soda can comparison pics:

You can see the tip of one of the bigger buds is getting a little bleached from the Advanced LED. I had some bleaching last time as well. If you let your girls get too close to the LEDs you will get bleached out tops. I moved it so that it's not directly under the light, but more between two of them now.

I really can't believe how frosty they're getting, I'll have to get a better macro lens for my DSLR to really show off their trichs for the NOTM pics.

 

[zzoomm100]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

That is a tricky question. How tall are they going to be, how bushy. How long are you going to veg them.

If I was going to put 6 plants under a single 180, I would only veg them until they are 6-8 inches tall and then (as you mention) put them in as close to each other as possible, just make sure you have enough room for airflow and some lateral growth. If you are doing a SOG type grow then you can get away with 6 under the one light. If you are going to bush them out then maybe 2 plants. Or if it's a tall sativa, SCROG a single plant.

Off the top of my head I recall the 180 having an advertised core of about 2.5x2.5 and a total coverage of about 4x4. I think that is based on the height of 18 inches over the plants, I would not count on any "big" growth outside of the core, so if you can get all of your girls into the core are you should be fine.

Also, if they're all the same strain and you're going for max yield, a SCROG with 1 or 2 plants may be a better producer for you than 6 smaller plants. I think it was Pitviper (and probably several others too) that said "sometimes less is more"

On my first grow I had a single 180 on a mover and it was flowering 12 plants (although not as well as I think it could do now that I have a bit more experience and better equipment).

Best of luck on your grow, I hope that I've been able to answer the question.

Hey Steve.

I'm about to make a purchase and after rereading your post, I'm wondering if we're talking about the same size lights. I'm referring to growledhydro's new Spectra LED 290 which used to be called the Spectra LED 180. I think it's the same size as those two larger LEDs that you use. The coverage area is supposed to be 4x4 although I'm probably guessing it's slightly less. I'm wondering if that 290 is wide enough to cover 6 plants.

I talked to Mike and he suggested two of the smaller 180's (used to be called the 120s) like you and cryo mentioned. But if that 290 can cover 6 plants then that's the way I'll go.

Just your opinion, no big deal, thanks.

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

zzoomm,
I am sure that Mike's new lights are good-to-go. If you go with the 2 180s you'll have more total wattage for the area. I am sure you can get 6 small SOG style plants under the footprint of the 290, but you would be better off with the larger footprint and spread of the 2 180s.

I guess one way to approach it is to buy a single 290 now and another when your grow finishes up. Make sure to start a journal, I'd like to see the new light in action.

Also, if Mike is reading this, I'd be happy to do a grow comparing your light to the Advanced.

 

[zzoomm100]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

I think I'm gonna go with the 290 and maybe pick up another 180 next year if I need to. That will give me options since I might go the other way and downsize to a smaller tent and fewer plants.

I'm not gonna create a grow journal. I don't have the time. But I will add pictures somewhere to give people another reference to these lights. Maybe just one post with a flood of pictures from beginning to end.

Appreciate the help. Thanks.

 

[cryodude]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Zzoomm, you will get really good penetration distance off the 290, a little more than the 180's. But, you would cover more area and get good cross coverage in the center with two lights, whether they were both 180's or a 290 and a 180 together. two 180's would be killer and about 300.oo more than buying a singe 290. If my plan continues to unfold correctly, i will probably do 3 of each. haven't decided yet if i want to do 290/180/290 and 180/290/180 or run all three same wattages together and see what difference it makes with height/penetration between the 2 size lights. Steves grow is a good indicator of that since he has a 18o sandwiched tween his 2 300;s although they are different companies. Will be interesting to see what he thinks about the quality and weight difference. Hell i may only buy 6 180's after hearing what his thoughts are in a few weeks.

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

It's a tough call. I would base my decision on several factors. Size of plants (height wise more so than width) and the style of grow (SOG, CROG, LST full-on bush) and the height above canopy.

For my grow space I am limited in height,so my style dictates a method that keeps overall height of the plants down. Also the footprint is 2x6. So in my case I would be better off with 3 180s. If my grow space was 4x6 and I had an extra foot or more of headroom, I would go with the 300s (or 290s). It will all come down to spreading out the light. I think the penetration will essentially be the same, since both lights are using the same LEDs (just more of them in the 300 or 290. So I would think the penetration would be the same, but not the intensity.

There are a lot of factors to consider. But I would say if you are looking for a shorter overall height in a SOG or SCROG, I would go with the 180s (you could buy 3 of them for about the same as 2 of the 290s). I don't see a noticeable difference with my girls between the plants under the 180 and the ones under the 300s. The case might be different if the lights were an additional 12 inches higher than where they are now. Both manufacturers recommend a height of 18 inches above for flowering and I'm at 4-8 in places (which is why I am getting some bleaching).

When it comes time to do the chop I will make sure to weigh and take pics of the top 3 plants under each light (each has/had 6 plants). I'll post a quick spreadsheet with pics of the best buds from each light for comparison. It should be around the 5th of May (give or take a few days).

I hope I didn't confuse the issue much. But if I was spending my money again on this same setup, it would be on 3 of the 180s (still undecided about whether GLH or Advanced) and I would use the extra money for some other gadgets. like a CO2 monitor, or an R/O system (or both for the price difference).

 

[Maer]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

In reality I don't think it is a scientifically sound comparison unless you partition the plant off with some panda film or something. Almost all the plants are getting splash over light from both types of lights, except maybe the ones on either end.

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

In reality I don't think it is a scientifically sound comparison unless you partition the plant off with some panda film or something. Almost all the plants are getting splash over light from both types of lights, except maybe the ones on either end.

Maer,
I agree it's not totally scientific, but I think the plants at the ends would have very little impact from the 180 and the two in the dead center of the 180 have very little spill over from the 300s. I have though about using diamond foil (I don't have panda film, but the diamond foil is almost the same except it has the shiny side instead of a black side).

I think with how close the lights are to the plants and how thick their leaves are, very little splashes over more than a few inches.

I would like to do a comparo between the GLH and the Advanced lights, but would need to compare new 180s from each (or 300s) and could use the film to separate the girls from each other.

 

[Maer]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

I would also like to run a comparison and I do have the lights (new 2011 from mike). But at the moment I have 4 plants from seed, and 6 more behind that also from seed. So it will be at least 13 weeks until I can grow with clones from the same plant. IMHO clones are the only really scientific way to compare lights.

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

I would also like to run a comparison and I do have the lights (new 2011 from mike). But at the moment I have 4 plants from seed, and 6 more behind that also from seed. So it will be at least 13 weeks until I can grow with clones from the same plant. IMHO clones are the only really scientific way to compare lights.

I agree on the clones, thats what I use. Also I have all of the clones in the same NFT system so that they all get exactly the same mix. My next grow will have 6 each of Gigabud, Twilight and Pineapple Chunk. I'm growing the moms from seed right now. I was going to put 2 each under each of the lights and place them in a way that there is an even spread of clones under different light situations (extreme end, near cross over point and dead center).

On this grow I had a mini-experiment going on with whether to top or not. I have a handful of clones that were topped and some that were not (single cola) I was curious about what the results would be. I am also following 420fied's grow of his SOG and they are much closer together than mine, so very little room for lateral growth.

I'm also very curious about the location that clones are taken from and whether that makes a big difference in yield. Cervantes' Grow Bible has a section on that very topic.

 

[Maer]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Do you ever observe that the ones further downstream are smaller? Do they get less leaf tip burn at the end of the line? Have you ever grabbed some water from the return and tested it? I would think as the water goes through the plants absorb some mins, or I wonder do they take up the solution as a whole and not change the concentration.

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Do you ever observe that the ones further downstream are smaller? Do they get less leaf tip burn at the end of the line? Have you ever grabbed some water from the return and tested it? I would think as the water goes through the plants absorb some mins, or I wonder do they take up the solution as a whole and not change the concentration.

The flow of nutes is pretty steady. I have tested the nutes from the end of the system and the differences are negligible. I'm pushing 260 gph through the NFT, it looks as though the girls are getting what they need. The first and last plant in the system, just happen to be beside each other so I can do an easy comparison and they seem to be on par with each other. I am getting a bit of tip burn but that is across the board with all of them, I am going to back off of the ppm's a bit, back to 1000 (although I am sure the lights being that close aren't helping out with the tip burning). I am interested in what their root structure will look like as well, I'll be sure to take some pics of the first and last plants in the system after I chop.

 

[Hydrologist]

Re: Stevehman's 780W LED, DIY 4 in PVC Recirc, Caramlicious Grow

Hydro,
I'll see if I can get a quick sketch put together on my thoughts for the "y" connector, or you could also use a "t" connector (PVC). You would need an external pump though to make the system work. If you want to use your current pump, then definitely go with larger PVC between the buckets to keep them level with each other. I would also think about drawing the nutes from one bucket and having the return line go to the other, sort of a mini undercurrent design. But you would need to have the larger pipe.

The reason I like and external res is that it is actually easier to maintain a larger volume of nutes than a small one. Sam principal in aquariums. A larger salt water system is easier to maintain and requires less maintenance (I know it sounds counter intuitive). If you make a small mistake on a small system the results are magnified, if that mistake is spread out over 26 gallons (vice 6) it is minimized. That goes with pH adjustments, nute levels, temps are more constant (unless like you, you are running chill-zilla) and you don't have to check levels so often. A top-off res helps immensely as well. I think the more stable I can keep everything the better.

Harbor Freight is the bomb. I can drive to one relatively close to where I live. They always have online coupons, in the Sunday paper and in the back of Maxim magazine. Usually a 20% coupon, and a free flashlight. I've purchased several fountain pumps from them and they're about $19 on sale for a 256gph.

It would be cool to get member and nug of the month in the same month (or back to back). I think I'll have a few buds worthy of entry next month. I'm posting my update in a few minutes. All of the data and pics are from yesterday.

mannn,
sorry i've been completley out of the loop for the past couple of days. I hate when i do that because I come back and i have a ton of catching up to do and I dont want to loose my connection with my friends on here and I hate missing awesome information! But as you know sometimes the outside world calls and we have to step up to the plate.

oh btw I responded to your post on my main journal, dude and i'll def. check out harbor for pumps when i go there to get that cone bit this weekend they are bomb dude! totally going to pick up a coupon too.

After hearing you explain the external rez thing I am definetly digging the idea and im not sure if i'll add it this cycle or when I upgrade and have that whole bedroom to grow in, but knowing me...and how I get board when I run out of stuff to work on with my set up i'll probably end up adding it in the next 3 weeks haha, I can't help it I just love working with my hands and technology and I love weed, no wonder this is such a great hobby/job.

Anyways hows life going for you in the "real world" if you can call it that. Im kinda pissed about a few things going on, like that pastor guy in Florida actually went through with that koran burning when he said he wouldn't. dont get me wrong i know those ass hole terrorist burn american flags and jesus crosses all day and night trying to piss us off, but thats just it why endanger our good brothers sons and daughters just to get even with some obviously very fucked up people! Not to mention getting even in such a stupid way with them! We got Patriot missiles and we're fucking using them! screw koran burning that's below this country...but obviously not below some of its lower IQ citizens obviously.

I saw Obama too. For like a second I wont say when or where but it was pretty cool. I saw him for like a flash as he drove by, I can't imagine what it would be like to be president and have miles of street blocked off for you wherever you go. DEFINETLY beats California traffic lol.

Other than that...just going to school and chasing girls. Same old.

oh and dude its lookin like a 80 percent chance i'll be harvesting sunday may 1st!!!! can't wait!!!!!!!! Its ganna take alll day! wwoo!

take it ez
hydrologist

p.s if your plants were conscience i think they'd be bummed if you didn't enter them in POTM...just a thought haha.