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Structured Water, Shungite & Fullerenes

Aroxol

Well-Known Member
History of how I came to even get to this topic (not the focus of the thread, just the background - no debates needed on proper pH for DWC): Went to a local hydro shop and had a conversation with one of the growers who recommended running DWC systems at 5-5.5pH instead of traditional 5.5-5.8. When I asked the person how they came to the conclusion about a lower pH, the story was a water scientist (maybe watershed science idk) stated it had to do with structuring/ restructuring water. I had no idea what that meant, and neither did he, but said after he tried reducing pH plants really took off. He was honest and made it clear he couldn’t articulate the science, and everything is anecdotal. TBH I just like the guy and we had a good conversation, so that explanation was good enough.

But my follow up was to look up “structured water” which took me to a place I generally only visit under full moonlight - the world of energy crystals...

Let’s stop here for a public service announcement - this thread is probably more for the curious, not for the winners of arguments - so think through if this is the post/ thread for you.

I hope you’re all still with me because now we get to the interesting stuff.

After hours of going down a web search rabbit hole, here’s where I’m at... and oh btw neither one lend any help or relevance to the 5.0 pH portion that I started the thread with.

1. Structured water - let’s understand a non-technical baseline: 6 Things to Know About Structured Water - Aquaponics Design Company

What’s interesting to me is there seems to be evidence (from limited studies) in enhanced growth, crop size, and yield with structured water. Also, if we look at the human drinking water trends that have exploded in the US, this definitely has become a thing in health food stores/ active lifestyle types. Yet in gardening, still early. I bring that up because it demonstrates there’s a market for it in some capacities, and maybe just maybe the claims have some credibility.

2. Shungite (specifically Elite Shungite with higher concentrations of fullerenes). At the basic level it’s a mineral and widely accepted as having healing properties across the more holistic/ hippie/ natural healers/ spiritual communities worldwide. At a deeper level, it contains fullerenes - their discovery led to a Nobel prize, and when they interact with water they have been shown to neutralize waterborn contaminates/ enhance beneficial effects and in general have scientific studies that are a little too in-depth for my knowledge/ attention span. This is where I hope some of the more advanced chemistry/ biology folks here can dumb it down for me. Also, in searching shungite on 420 mag there are posts from 2016 about people using these stones to block radio frequencies emitted from 600/1000w HID lights. Then nothing. I think there’s something here, I really do.

For those still with me and interested, I’d love if you read up on shungite and structured water and then let’s talk about if we think this has a potential place in our gardens or if this is too wacky.

Ultimately I want to know what I can /any info all of you know about shungite and fullerenes and structuring water for growing - the interaction with water, macronutrients, micronutrients, pH, and how that benefits or works against cannabis growth stages/ nutrients. I can’t help but feel like “structured water” and elite shungite could play an interesting role in cannabis growth that is potentially somewhat unexplored.

Now, I’m making no claims about anything, I just find it interesting and I’m curious. I don’t want this to become some bickering thread that gets off topic. There’s a lot of smart ppl on 420 and I want this to be like a group project (if anyone’s even interested). I personally think this is a somewhat fascinating topic and I’m a bit surprised I’m not finding more information out there. Perhaps that’s because there’s nothing here, or maybe it’s just early - either way my hope is it generates healthy and knowledgeable discourse.
 

Teejrocks

Well-Known Member
Very interesting...
Anecdotal evidence for "New Age healing" type theories...

I love reading about this stuff, despite the science being dubious. I love my Himalayan rock salt lamp because it looks cool, the fact that all of the "healing/air purification" benefits have been proven completely false. Oddly studies on the the healing powers of the caves where the "social evidence" originates were far less dismissive of perceived benefits.

At cursory glance this seems pretty sketchy, but I'm down to see everyone's opinions.

I also love your aquaponics reference that you quote... If it didn't cost so much to keep my garage heated all winter I'd love to try aquaponics, despite growing my cannabis in Coco.

:popcorn:
 

Old Salt

Member of the Month: Apr 2019
Anecdotal evidence for "New Age healing" type theories...
So was all evidence concerning the use of cannabis in the US and Canada prior to legalization for medical use. It still is 'anecdotal' in many juristictions throughout the world.
 

Aroxol

Well-Known Member
I suspect this will become a very cool learning experience for all of us, me for sure. Just to level set once again, I’m not really interested in being right or wrong, proving or disproving anything, I’m just interested in the topic and want to try some new stuff. I ordered some raw shungite (not elite) primarily due to cost and because this water will be given to plants. TBH I’m not sure when it will arrive, but guessing weeks.

In the meantime, here’s some more info relevant to us (all from varying articles online, linked at bottom).

1. The presence in shungite compounds of iron, calcium, sodium, potassium, magnesium, copper, zinc, chromium and many other elements allow it to be used as a natural mineralizer water. Question: is what’s above and shown in the chart below (along with ratios) enough to sustain a cannabis plant through its full veg to flowering lifecycle?
4674F162-DB64-4740-9737-47565831312B.jpeg


2. The general consensus seems to be that water purified with shungite is acidic, typically ending up anywhere from 3.0-5.5pH. The longer you infuse the water, the more acidic it gets. People recommend raising pH by running through dolomite sand which would also add in additional calcium and magnesium. Question: Let’s say it came out at 4.0pH, would adding something like pH Up effect the purification in a negative way?

3. Here’s what I’ve found as the simplest breakdown of what it removes when infused with water.
D07863D7-C0B6-42F9-9EF0-BE400E61AE20.jpeg



My initial reaction to everything I’ve researched so far is I don’t necessary see shungite being a fit for DWC mainly due to the quantities of water you’d need to purify, the amount of shungite required to perform purification on those volumes of water, and the frequency at which you’d have to do it.

I do see it as a potential fit for soil and even coco (depending on its effectiveness).

When it arrives, the first step for me is water analysis - I want to see how the pH, ppm, ec, etc. compares and changes across various water types (with and without shungite) over several days.

From there I want to run a super simple test:

2 plants, same pheno/ age/ medium/ room.
-water one with purified shungite water (no adj)
-water one with RO, standard nutes, pH’d

Seems like the easiest test ever, either it will look oddly healthy and have ppl perplexed, or it won’t. I’m rooting for it just working and making all of us scratch our heads. Remember goal here is learn and have fun, I don’t care if it fails and does absolutely nothing - neither should you.


 

Teejrocks

Well-Known Member
Various carbon nano materials have been tested for positives and negatives on various forms of plant life... If you like boring scientific documents... this one is worth a skim... Although you've probably already read it ;).

Carbon nanomaterials: production, impact on plant development, agricultural and environmental applications

Structured water / shungite, I only know about in regards to skeezy "landing page" marketing sites selling overpriced water purification systems... So my bias is/was triggered by that terminology as they all referred to shungite acting as an activated carbon replacement, when the biggest benefit (to plants) would be the the release of C60 during the filtration. The advertising copy misleads that the benefits are the result of purer water, when in truth, the "contamination" of the C60 into the resulting water is where the benefit lies.

Will you host your experimental grow here Growca, or do we watch for an upcoming journal?

And to Old Salt, I forget that not everyone was/is blessed with open access to the internet as we now have and for a long time anecdotes were the only way to spread information. The reference to healing crystals was what caused my pessimistic reference to new age healing, as unfound medical advice can be so damaging. My province is in the midst of an appeal from some parents who were jailed for killing their son by treating his meningitis with garlic and hot peppers. Much like the pH threads, the people who are in the best shape are the ones who are willing to accept that most points of view have merits. Your content and anecdotes are appreciated all over these forums and it's easy to see why :nomo:
 

Aroxol

Well-Known Member
We’ll ride or die right here and see what happens. I came across that article, and it’s a perfect example of the type of data that’s too acronym laden and intense for my attention span, but interesting all the same. Though most info is all marketing and generic, the more I read about Shungite, the more intrigued I become. It’s been a fun rabbit hole as I’ve stumbled across all sorts of weird stuff - magnetizing water for agriculture, etc..

If I was smarter, should've created a Shungite nutrient line with the same claims all the other nute lines make and collect a fat paycheck...but I’m more of an idealist and open source kinda guy.

So although highly improbable, let’s stay positive that this water purified by rocks (and no additional nutrient supplements) turns out some serious chronic.
 

Aroxol

Well-Known Member
This study is from 2015, contains some of the info from the 2016 study but IMO is easier to digest. Could use the help of the chemist and biologist among us to understand the strength takeaways and how that correlates to Shungite in water. There’s got to be something I’m missing because it seems like there’s some significant observations of yield gains. Seems to be a gap.

 

Aroxol

Well-Known Member
Guys/ Gals- Though I have an order for raw shungite stone placed, I have no clue when that’s gonna get here. Therefore, I went on Amazon and got my greasy little paws on some Elite Shungite so I could run a quick water test, I’m just too curious about all of this and it’s consumed my thoughts a bit.

The order arrived, I tested it on a flashlight and it conducted the electricity/ powered the light so we know it’s real.

I washed 50 grams and placed it into 1 litre of tap water. I placed a control container of water from the same source next to it so we’ll be able to know how much of changes in pH and ppm (if there are any) are due to the shingite vs. natural exposure to air, time, and dissolving.

Test Water: 434 PPM, 8.0pH, 50g Elite Shungite.
Control Water: 429 PPM, 8.0pH.
307CFF55-DDF3-453A-8E0E-5E80427C7A52.jpeg
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
 

Aroxol

Well-Known Member
Checked the water right now, and there is a slight difference between them:

-Shungite water: 422ppm, 8.1pH
-Control water: 434ppm, 8.3pH

Now, there is another observation that I’m kicking myself in the pants a little over. Yesterday I also put a shungite rock on a few of my unrooted clones just to see if it would make a difference (just set it on top of rockwool, nothing else). Today I checked and the clones with the stones on top are visibly taller with thicker stems - but here’s the problem, I didn’t take pictures or measurements yesterday so there’s a chance these were just bigger cuttings to begin with. I genuinely don’t believe they were, so make your own judgement.

I’m starting to think these stones are going to have an impact on plant growth, and I’m not going to be able to know or articulate why. Pretty cool in my mind, “this” will be a different kind of thread for sure:meatballs:
C996BA69-BBE9-4282-90A1-32838C1EBC00.jpeg
DDF99587-B148-47C3-BE81-F0AFCCD75909.jpeg
 

Gazoo

Well-Known Member
I'm In
:ciao:
1st thing to catch my eye was the Killing/removal of Protozoa , Ciliates (Living Soil) ?

Does the shungite rock Remove the Minerals by some type of Reaction or by Absorption?
Thinking if its Absorption is there a MAX amount before it releases or stops working ?

Just started reading and sure I will be back with Answers and More Questions ;)
 

Aroxol

Well-Known Member
I'm In
:ciao:
1st thing to catch my eye was the Killing/removal of Protozoa , Ciliates (Living Soil) ?

Does the shungite rock Remove the Minerals by some type of Reaction or by Absorption?
Thinking if its Absorption is there a MAX amount before it releases or stops working ?

Just started reading and sure I will be back with Answers and More Questions ;)
First off, appreciate your participation and happy you’re here - love your content! Great questions, short answer is I don’t know/ have no idea :)

I’ve done more reading on Shungite and structured water than I’d like to admit (both what appear to be scientific studies and what are clearly energy specific mystic websites). I’ve also been testing water and so far there is not enough of a difference in ppm nor pH to “prove” the shungite rocks do anything, at least with the measuring tools I have.

That said, 2 weird things have happened so far:
1. Setting stones on certain cuttings seemed to make them grow bigger (I think).
2. I used a dropper yesterday to give some of the cuttings the shungite infused water (pH’d down to 5.5) and today they finally had roots.

Both of these things can be (and probably are) coincidental, but it’s brought me to I have mixed feelings about all of this. I know what this forum wants - proof. But I don’t think that’s what I’m after, I’m just curious, and also don’t think I can’t get the most out of these stones if my mindset is trying to see if they provide benefits. The more I’ve thought about energy/ shungite/ crystals, the more my mind has been contemplating.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, my personal philosophy on stuff like this - once again not intended to be right or wrong - is I’m a believer in energy. I feel it exists, in lots of different forms, all around us... And if somebody thinks a rock or a crystal is stupid and dumb and is never going to work/ do anything - then that’s exactly what will happen. If that’s what you’re bringing to the table, why would it bring anything different?

Like humans- if you want to be likeable, you are nice to people, smile a lot, take interest in what they’re doing and enjoy.

Or dogs- when you act happy and excited, your dog’s tail starts going a million miles an hour and they get happy and excited.

What I’m driving at is I don’t think I’m going to be able to get too scientific on this, I’m not even going to try. My goal is to go into this with as open of a mind as I can, feed plants different water and see what happens. If it’s successful, what it will show (IMO is this shit will go to work for you if you want it to).

That was a novel all, sorry. Am I bagshjt crazy? Open to all feedback.
 

TurboBucket

Photo of the Month: Jan 2019 - Plant of the Month: Feb 2019

Gazoo

Well-Known Member
Right, wrong, or indifferent, my personal philosophy on stuff like this - once again not intended to be right or wrong - is I’m a believer in energy. I feel it exists, in lots of different forms, all around us... And if somebody thinks a rock or a crystal is stupid and dumb and is never going to work/ do anything - then that’s exactly what will happen. If that’s what you’re bringing to the table, why would it bring anything different?
Exactly my Thoughts. Often wonder if its just my positive expectations that do MOST of the work

As you know I use Structured Water, Maybe its LIVING WATER. I had read up on it a year on so ago.

INTERESTING FACT
Structured Water in the HOME DRINKING WATER systems use MAGNETS. Its used for CALCIUM
BULD UP removal and prevention. Done with Magnets, I can find some links if anyone
is interested. It aligns the Positive and Negative charges and creates a BOND that holds the
minerals in the Water, MOST Noticeably the CALCIUM.

Also read University Study's on MAGNETIZED STRUCTURED WATER, I believe it was
with beans and another plant. There were Pictures taken during germination and growth showing
major changes in structure and growth. ADDITIONALLY it DEPENDING on the way the Positive & Negative
charge in the water was set.

The other way I had seen it done was the way NATURE does is by flowing over rocks,
The VORTEX has been shown to do the same thing. There is a early experiment that
shows how FALLING RAIN can produce a DEADLY CHARGE under the right conditions.
Anyway I am rambling so I'll be back after I read up on the
shungite rock
 
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