Stunted Plants Help Please. (pics)

[FirstTimer]

Hi all,

I have 19 seedlings growing under a 250 MH and they are all doing pretty bad. They are just over three weeks old and all have about three sets of leaves. They are severly stunted I think. My water ph was 8.5 for the first three weeks. I corrected my water ph to 6.5 the last time I watered. This was like 6 days ago. The plants have gotten a lot worse since then. Judging from the pics are they suffering from ph shock or something else?

The last pic is of one of my clones they are also suffering the same fate.

Great White Shark

Hawaiian Snow

S.A.G.E.

BC Sweet Tooth Clone

Thanks for any advice you can provide!

 

[RangerDanger]

Running bad pH can poison the soil.
My advice, ditch the soil, buy some Fox Farms Ocean & Forest potting soil, start over.
Imo the plants, getting off to such a bad start, are permanantly damaged.

 

[MadameCrash]

They are starving due to the PH being off and are too weak to recover and uptake nutrients from the soil via the roots. If you really want to keep these plants (instead of starting over) do this:

Mix up a foliar spray solution of -

1 liter bottled water
1/3 - 1/2 teaspoon Miracle Grow (Yes, I said Miracle Grow!!) or some other cheap chemical fert - it must be chemical fertilizer for plants that are very very sick
1/2 teaspoon Epsom Salts dissolved in hot water
1 Drop of dish soap

Spray your plants with this solution 2 times a day for the first 2-3 days. Then see how they are responding. New growth should start to come in a day or two, Cut back the foliar feeds to every other day when they show signs of recovery. You can drop the foliar feeding altogether in a week or two once they show healthy new growth.

Peace
MC

 

[FirstTimer]

Since this post I have transplanted them in to new soil. I tested my soil ph and it was 7.4. Shuold be 6.5-7.0 right? They haven't even been in the new soil for 24 hours yet.. I broke as much of the old soil away from the roots as I could with out breaking any roots and planted them in to fresh new soil. Unfortunately I can't get fox farm stuff around my area. I used a Sta-Green soil with wetting agent.

Should I still use the foliar spray? What ph should foliar spray's be at?

I really need to save the seedlings because I can't get anymore seeds. Thankfully I will be getting a new batch of clones in a few weeks.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Akornpatch]

6.5-6.8 PH

Foliar spray isn't an ideal feeding method. Avoid it if you can. If you have to keep the pH under 7.0

 

[MadameCrash]

The foliar spray would be a good idea for a couple of days. they might be too weak to get a good new root system started as they are right now.

PH of the foliar spray should be at 6.8-7 or a tiny bit over. Be careful... If the PH of the foliar spray is too acidic it creates an environment for Powdery Mildew to take hold...

Peace
MC

P.S. I usually don't recommend foliar feeding - it's only a good solution for specific instances such as extreme nute deficiency..

 

[SpeesCees]

My advise....start over again and take your lost !
No seed at this time...ok, then use your time to read more and better how to start up a little garden. Going on with this "plants" will only bring you more frustration and they will never give you a crop that will make you happy.
My english isn't too good, so I can't explain now at this moment how to start again, but I will find the right info in english and post it here.
I feel sorry for you, but this seedlings AND the clone are poisened.
All hard words, I know, but you don't need "dream" advises I guess, cause that will bring you nowhere.

SpeesCees


General Notes
Make sure you choose a sowing/germinating soil which contains a lot of fine sand. Masonry sand or sand for playgrounds as an addition is just fine. Too many fibres cause problems with germinating. If you want to be absolutely sure and create an optimum chance for each seed, sieve the soil mixture before use! The helmet (seed cover) and the film which envelopes the seed should remain in the medium when the seeds germinates. Too light a soil will hamper this process. Keep your water to pH 6.3, and keep the seedlings humid, but not TOO wet. A fine water sprayer works miracles here. Make sure the seedlings receive FULL light when they germinate and leave it like that for at least 20 hours the first couple of days. Make sure your tube lights hang as close to the seedlings as possible (a couple of centimeters)! A 400 watt lamp can be hung as low as 45 cm and a 600 watt lamp as low as 55 cm.


Don't be afraid, the seedlings can very well handle this, even though a good movement of air underneath the lamp is very important (ventilator!).

Make sure you spray in time, until the hull, that may come up when the seed germinates, has dropped off, as well as the protective film which envelopes the seed. This is necessary to prevent the hull and protective film to dry out, which sometimes result in sticking to the germinating seedling, which as a consequence, is hampered in it's development. Stop spraying water when all seedlings are overground, too allow for your seedlings to work at maximum efficiency underground. Offering too much humidity to the leaf often results in a less developed rootsystem. Contrary to clones, seedlings have a reasonable resistance to dry air. When using germinating trays, things often go wrong because of excessive heat and humidity.

Because we germinate and grow our seeds indoors on a warm medium, the plants tend to shoot up rather thinly, which causes weak and excessively high plants. This can only be prevented by hanging the lights as low as possible.

Lowering soil temperature could be an option, if it weren't for the growing speed we don't want to lose.

The biggest mistake being made is: not bringing the light close enough to the developing seedling!

Remember that the first two to three hours partly determine the rest of the plant's life!

Start giving some nutrition only after the plants have been in the light for two days. Start with a very light nutrition and keep the water to pH 6.3. Note: the ballast caused by a measurable EC in your tapwater can NOT be seen as nutrition. If you don't have a pH measuring device at hand, try to work with rainwater or add a drop of natural vinegar to the water - and be aware that your first purchase 'should' be a pH meter. Preferably use 'pure' nutrition that could also be used as leaf-nutrition. Doing so minimizes your chances of failure.

WE GIVE TO MUCH WATER!
ALLMOST EVERYBODY!

During rain a plant the vegetative phase will transport the rainwater to the outside of the plant, because the plant does not want to have water near it's stem during this phase. On all sides of the stem there are roots that secrete salts and / or nitrates (just look at the white lines in the pot after a full cycle). Because it's not good for a plant to have it's own precipitated toxic substances going through it's roots again, we advice the following: Give the plants water at the bottom as much as possible! Put a dish under your pots. After you have watered the plants from the top for the first time only give water in the dishes. The taste of your weed will be milder.


SpeesCees

 

[SpeesCees]

SPEES WITH CEES!
How to collect knowledge and what happens at the roots?
We can buy seed, clones, a huge installation connected to the most expensive systems and sometimes dreams... but with all of this you can't buy "green fingers". Collecting knowledge is important when you idealize being or becoming an excellent grower. Much too often we look at the plant... we see and come to our own conclusions. But we often forget that what grows above-ground, is formed beneath the ground. Because that is where it all happens. Everything you see is for 80% the result of what happens underground. When you have learned to work preventive and see what happens in the growing medium and you react the right way... you will come a long way.

Reading technical literature is a must when you want to collect a lot of knowledge. Sadly enough, there's a lot of nonsense written. But you learn to sift the bullshit out, and slowly you'll learn how to get a good harvest for about 5 times a year. With pre-grown female seed and a PreGrowBox, you can get 6 harvests a year! Let's take a look at some points.

Hint: First buy a good pH-reader before you buy growing stuff!

And preferably also an EC-reader, but when your budget doesn't allow it this can wait. There is a lot of plant nutrition that comes with accurate instructions, and for which you only need a good measuring glass for a good EC. Well... you already have that pH-reader... so lets proceed.
Check your medium for pure pH levels!
This pH level plays the leading part in the development of your plants. It provides a value which lets you know what to do with the pH value when you use tap water. Take notice... a plant doesn't absorb anything when the pH level isn't right! Drinking roots contain membranes that close up when the pH level is too high or too low, and this causes stagnated growth. Stagnation causes a wet medium, because there's no absorbtion. This wetness causes a lot of problems! Be sure you measure everything... especially the soil. Take a cup or bowl, fill it up with soil for three quarters of its volume and add a quarter of water which is made pH neutral (7.01). Stir it well and let it sit for about one hour. Now you can measure the soils pH level. 5.4 is too acidic. You could mix this with water with a pH value of 6.7 to 6.9, to balance the difference. By mixing the 2 degrees of acidity you achieve an average of 6 to 6.2.

Just for once buy some Bacterial (those 10 euro's won't break the bank) instead of expensive root stimulators, boosters and soil improvers based on enzymes and chelates, which all create a soil with a lot of bacteria. Nothing wrong with that, but why not immediately add those cultures of nutrifying bacteria to get to your target as fast as you can? Without enough and the right bacteria there's no biotope of any value. This concerns every life form. You too have the right bacteria in your intestines... otherwise you would die. Be sure you get the 'pH part' right... keep asking, keep reading... it brings you the largest amount of knowledge necessary to achieve a good base and regular succes.

Ballast
It's also important to water your plants from underneath as much as possible! At first there are no problems when the plant excretes some salt and nitrite (read: ballast substances), but later on this will become a problem. Look at your plants in their pots, and it will strike you that after every cycle a white edge shows at the top of the soil. This is the plant's excrement, piss and sweat. It's better for your plant when you don't flush this down over and over again! The plant has to cope with the waste everytime. It's natural that the ballast substances are secreted at the top layer of the medium. In nature the leaves (during the process of growth) make sure the rain falls outside the plants growing area, preventing the ballast substances to get flushed down (some plants hang their leaves when it suddenly becomes dark, but a few drops of rain for sure makes them hang immediately). So it's better to put dishes underneath the pots and water from below? this is definitely worth the effort. When you're using an ebb and flow system, don't ever allow the water come above the upper edge, so the ballast is left where it has to be. Make sure nutrifying bacteria are constantly available in the medium when you want to have less trouble from your ballast substances (your plant will be greatful). These bacteria live off them and transform them into organic material. And here also lays the 'secret' explanation of why it is advisable to grow on the same soil several times. Once the ballast substances are gone and the soil is upgraded with Libre-mix, the same soil could be used again (measure it well!). But make sure you adapt the EC

Spacing outside?
A few hints for growers who like to see their dream plants grow outside.

A bag of worm-fertilizer makes sure that your plants have a good start and don't have a shortage for almost half the growing cycle.

Don't place your clones or seed to close near a fence or shed... this causes mildew. Because when the wind blows freely through our plants, you can keep them mildew-free!
Sowing or planting too early doesn't work. The soil temperature determines when the growing process begins. Early May is soon enough.

Seed will almost always develop faster than a clone even when it's sown later than the clone is planted.

Put a large stick near your plants after a few weeks to prevent the risk of damaging the large roots in a later growing stage. You can't ignore it when the plants grow fast and vertically and need support.

A lot of tepid water at a pH-level 6.2 — 6.5 within the last few days will give a good tasty weed. Don't water the plant the last 2 or 3 days before harvest (when it rains... pray for it to stop).

Let your weed dry in the dark... As long as there is light, there is synthesis. The cells in the leaves still react to the light and the plant starts to protect itself. The plant will make substances that use THC, and in the end your weed will have a lower percentage of THC. So dry it in a dark place!

Don't you ever give up hope of having a beautiful latter part of the summer. Every year it's a gamble. One time it will work!

When your weed is finally perfect at the end of the season and you need an expert taster ... you call me!

Stay cool, high and take time to fly.
www.nomercy.nl

 

[Akornpatch]

SpeeCees...great post! I find your English refreshing and entertaining...and I understand every word! Keep up the good work!

akorn.

 

[FirstTimer]

SpeesCees thank you for the useful info.

My goal for these plants was to find a mother of each type and use them for as long as possible. If I was to save these seedlings would I still be able to use the choosen ones as mothers? I mean would the "quality" be sacrificed?

madamecrash, I didn't have a chemical fert so I used the organic stuff I have hopefully that will help.

Thankfully my friend that gave me the clones asked for a Great White Shark seedling when he gave me the clones and I gave it to him. It is doing wonderfully. So that strain isn't a total loss for me. He took new BC Sweet tooth clones for me yesterday. I will be picking those up as soon as they are ready.

 

[SpeesCees]

SpeesCees thank you for the useful info.

My goal for these plants was to find a mother of each type and use them for as long as possible. If I was to save these seedlings would I still be able to use the choosen ones as mothers? I mean would the "quality" be sacrificed?

NO...don't use them ! Ones a plant became feetrot it wil take "it" with her in her genetics. W.a.w. the next generation will be more sensible to become feetrot.

SpeesCees

 

[realtalgrower]

Amazingly great read SpeesCees, and I especially like the use of the word "footrot" meaning I assume "rootrot" I will forever call it that in honor of your mj expertise. Lets just hope that I will use that to descibe other peoples plants and not my own.

 

[FirstTimer]

Well I don't have anything else to grow right now so I am going to try to save these little guys. I will get some new seed in a few months.

And I will get some Great White Shark Clones pretty soon. So at least all isn't lost. I can get the BC Sweet Tooth anytime but I don't like it that much, buds quick but lacks "real" potency if you know what I mean.

 

[SpeesCees]

huhhh...I know my english is MORE then poor....but hé : footrot and rootrot are two different things and are coming forwards out of two different problems for the plant.

SpeesCees

 

[FirstTimer]

Just a little update. Things have really turned around for the better.

I will be able to switch the clones to 12/12 sometime in the next few days.

The seedlings have doubled in size and are starting to grow some branches. I will post some pics within a couple of days.

 

[FirstTimer]

This is what they look like now. The seedlings were replanted in new soil on 12/12. The clones weren't repotted. I just watered them with lower ph water 6.0-6.3 for the first few waterings. All of them were Foliar sprayed too, which I am stopping after today.

I ditched trying to use my crappy tap water and I am now using RO water. I use RO water with Cal-Mag+ added to it. I have also been using Old Age Organics grow fertilizer and Hydrogen Peroxide but not with every watering.

GWS

HS

SAGE

BC ST Clone (same plant as above)

Another BC ST Clone

The clones have really turned around I am going to be switching them to 12/12 in a few days.

 

[MadameCrash]

that's Muuuuuuch better.. good job!

Peace
MC

 

[Akornpatch]

yes...much.

 

[FirstTimer]

Thanks! I'm a tryin'...

I just repoted all but 4 of my clones in to 5 gallon pots. That gives me 12 in 5gal. pots and 4 in 3 gal. pots. I will start flowering them tomorrow.

 

[cohiba]

You should practice on these plants , use all this info to save then, might not be your best crop but what the hell?
I had plants that where stunted for 2.5 months, reasons mites and gnats,ppm problem took me time but figured it out and plants are kicking ass!
If your a beginer perfect chance for you next time you will know problem right away