Suggestions and critiques from CFL/T5 growers - Rate my box

[ChefKimbo]

DISCLAIMER:

I chose to go with the CFL/T5 combo after doing a lot of reading on this site an others. Upgrading in the future is a must, but for know I will be learning the craft from the bottom. Also temperature is a major issue at the moment and my next purchase must be some form or air conditioning. That will be awhile so I will have do make do with what I have.

Right off the bat, my first issue is the chandelier. I'm about ready to remove it and come up with something else. Suggestions are welcomed. I just may go all hanging bulbs with the T5s on the side for supplemental lights, but only if its truly practical.

I've seen these DIY reflectors used in some journals, and not used in others. Realistically, what is the true benefit of using them? Suggestions on light placement are more than welcome. Thanks!

 

[Bodhisattva]

Looks really ingenious with the beer cans well done

i used another technique which is getting this silver reflective tape that is used for heating insulation

i then added the strip of tape to a large piece of thick carboard or similiar to form a flat piece of card. carefully cutting slits out the edges and gently bending it you can make a home made large ballast. This can go over the top like a hood like a big umbrella.

as long as you are carefull it wont set on fire - the refelctive tape bounces heat and light. . i have mine more than 2 inches above touching any part of the CFLs. worked great for weeks. careful with the beer cans being thin and hot though.

also you can make side pabel with this and keep them around the edges. keep them close to bounce light back and gradually move them outwards as the plant grows wider.

youl need to think about how to attach it to the side or use upright pole.

it was so effective in bouncing light back down that my temps rose a little bit but im at 550 to 600w in a cupboard (mix led and cfl) so i dont think you will have heat issues. its also very cost effective.

 

[Bodhisattva]

also i would angle the side of the beer cans down more - looks like light is seeping out the edges. Think about how a table lamp is designed - pushing light directly out the front and down with the hood ballast wrapping round the full edges.

Also just my ten cents - as soon as your plants grow bigger im not sure how effective the strip lights will be - they are quite far away and the least useful light source vs CFL etc. Im sure you know that due to your research etc. . I understand budget is an issue - so in that case - maybe just see if you can get them a lot closer to the plant. Right now the babies are small but when those girls grow up more and more light is needed and you defo cant overdo it with the T5s.

What will be great is that they will be able to provide some extra bits of light all around the edges which will be brilliiant.

save up for more cfls and add them gradually.

best of luck. ill keep an eye out and wishing you well for a great grow.


si.

 

[Bodhisattva]

sorry one more thing - i think before long you will need to raise the height of the lower strip lights because they will mostly be hitting the sides and underneath the plants. a bit of light to the side is ok but you want most if it to hit the top of the plants - and light hitting under the leaves is wasted. . Maybe have them so you can adjust the height.

peace.

 

[Croatsan]

I've seen these DIY reflectors used in some journals, and not used in others. Realistically, what is the true benefit of using them?

The true benefit is drinking the stuff inside before you use it

 

[ChefKimbo]

Thanks a bunch man, I really needed some experience and common sense to chime in before I went too far lol!

Lets start from the bottom. You are 100% correct about the T5s. I knew they wouldnt help much at this point in the game, but they are very versatile and when I upgrade to LED i'm sure they will really shine. I plan to get at least 4 more strips gradually for the back wall. I wasn't sure exactly where to mount them so I went with some very general. After I get a couple grows down I would like to practice scrog/sog and I figured the T5s would help out a lot with that. Although I have seen some excellent grows of plants with only 1-3 main colas and they were grown by CFL. Maybe if I install the strips vertically they would excel with a grow like that IDK. Not that important right now I guess but will be soon. I will take your advice and move the lower strips higher. This box is 4' high and 3 1/2' wide and I would like setup a perpetual grow with 1-2 plants in flower and 1-2 vegging in another box or outside.
Before I posted this I had already picked up some items from the DEPOT in anticipation of a new lighting setup.

A few weatherproof sockets, some screw hooks, and a sheet of flashing to make a reflector. I have 4 more sockets I will be weatherproofing myself for the box. I am very interested in the cardboard reflector you described, if you can take a pic of it that would be great. I looked thru your journal but couldn't find a good shot of it.
Thanks again for the feedback. I will be keeping an eye on your grow as well.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Cool. I love the passion, madness and creativity that we all have while looking after our girls.

Im just into flowering now and even though im running my dark period from 9 till 9pm, im still getting heat issues.
The main culprits are the 2 X 125 watt CFL. Its not suprised because im ramming in so many watts into a small cupboard

Im constantly juggling CFL closer = more light, versus CFL further equals less light but importantly less heat.

Luckily my Jack Herer monster is very hardly with heat - but one of the other plants kicked off at 26 degrees! despite tonnes of airflow etc.

One of my biggest lessons so far is that getting a good PHENO is so helpful.
Next time i will grow at least 3 seeds of one type cannabis (e.g Blue Dream or maybe A Haze) - and then see which out of the three is most powerful. its worth throwing away the money of the other little seeds by ditching them - if you have limited room - because you are investing so much time and effort into the grow - you want the best PHENO. My Haze Berry pheno was terrible and and my bubble kush was also pretty slow. Honeycream fast but very twitch and reacted to any tiny problem. Its a first grow and i love learning. Overall im happy. I think its easy for us to see these monster grows and think wow - how can i emulate that....on my first grow...lol

Despite what anyone says about CFL not produce much heat .... trust me the more you add the more they heat.
I would advise anyone against the long 125W CFL because you cant easily mount them sideways...so not very efficient...unless perhaps between two big buckets / pots - right in the middle they could be ideal.

So pleased to hear you are getting LED Lighting! winning

My 138 watt LED has been so phenomenal that i bit the bullet and just bought another 300W light to go with it.

The flowering difference in the CFL areas versus the LED area is huge. THe colas are longer, way more preflowers etc. Cant wait to take one or both of those hot tempered CFLs out and replace him with the LED.

Must get back to work. Looking forward to your pics.
Ill try to picture the reflectors soon.

Cheers

s

 

[ChefKimbo]

Yes man. Very exciting setting up the right environment for the girls. 2 are at 5 days old and 1 is 3 days old. They look great right now but temps are a big issue for me already. The cab is in an unconditioned shed, which needs some work as far as air circulation goes. I have a 6 inch exhaust fan pumping the air out of the box and clear out of the shed, moves a lot of air but its sucking in hot air There is cooler air on the backside of the shed because there are a couple huge trees covering the area and its consistently very cool back there when temps are in the 100s. Trying my best to find away the harness that constant cool breeze. I run my lights at night, 10pm to 10am and by the time the lights come on the cab is around 88F. Temps go up to around 92F and gradually drop to about 86F overnight. This is with 10 cfls and the two T5s. I know, not much movement. Humidity stays around the 60-65% range. So for me adding more light right now may kill my plants.
I'm have no experience but I understand phenotypes will play a big role in what a plant can take as far as temps/rh goes. So for now ill be gaining experience and learning the plants with some mid grade seeds I have. I'm going to get about 8 plants going and examine them closely to see how the respond to the environment, and the differences between them. From the beginning I can tell the differences in the two 5 day old plants.

I've been gradually looking into LED options but its really jungle out there. Hard to come to any decision when there is so much misinformation out there. Plus, I typically wait until a product's 2nd or 3rd generation so the kinks are worked out. After researching issues with LED panels adversely affecting the plants, I came to realize I would need to see some examples of success and get to know the name brands members are promoting. Since then, I've learned that either everyone is a vendor, or in some way affiliated with vendors. So damn near everything is to be taken with a grain of salt. What would you recommend for my setup(3' 1/2L x 3'1/2W x 4'H)?

In the meantime, temps/rh control is the priority so i'll be working on getting a window a/c to get things under control.

 

[Jakob]

hi there guys!

great reads, I'm going to start with indoor soon spend quite a decent amount of pennies for the grow room huhu...anyhow I'm gonna start with 200w cfl for growth and I got 250w for blooming (after extensive research it turns out there are different light freq. being given out by the light).

Super excited to start I've done lots of outdoor growing but never indoor so thats gonna be lots of fun!!!

I'm also thinking that at one point I will place both light at the same time a week or two before I place the babies into flowering.

 

[ChefKimbo]

Hey man, sounds good!

I'm a complete noob with no successful grows. I tried outdoors with a 4 plants about 2 months ago and the sun fried them all. I was in the process of building a space for them but it was too late. It was tough to work the plants into my schedule. So now my box is at least ready for the veg cycle and things are moving along pretty smooth. I'm gonna try outdoors again with a couple plants here soon to get more experience.

As far as the lights I've read the same research but I tend to be a little stubborn so I added 2 23w 2700k bulbs to the 6 23w 6500k bulbs I'm using regularly now. I also have two 42w 2700k bulbs that I crank up every 2 or 3 days, really depends on temps.

How did you deal with humidity and pests with your outdoor grows?

 

[Bodhisattva]

Yo Chef,

Im back, as promised with some pics of my home made CFL light reflector. To be fair looks like you have way more advanced right reflection going on with some professional looking curved panels etc. However hopefully the pics below are helpful to inspire others. I have had the luxury of being able to spend 30 to 60 mins a day moving lights (most often in the Veg stage - now things have slowed down a bit and my colas are all in place pretty much - so using these panels in different ways (this is about version 6) has been really helpful and fun. during early veg i used side panels around the plant to reflect the light back. (that meant all light had to be above them. imagine the shape of an upside- down lamp shade on the floor with a plant in the middle and youll get the picture. The panels came right up the plant often touching the outer most leaves - i even bent up the fan leaves gently so that instead of flopping down and away form the light they actually nest up to the edging panel = more light and more reflection of light to lower canopy.

for anyone new here

MAIN IDEA - reflecting light that goes up from CFL back down is a really cheap and easy way to INCREASE LIGHT LEVELS
Why illuminate your whole grow room when you only need light onto the plants

WHAT YOU NEED

1) large piece(s) of cardboard
2) cloth tape or anything that strongly grabs thick cardboard or other thick bendable material. important to get good tape here. i tried several that were not as good.
3) Silver reflective tape that is used for piping insulation / construction work etc. HEAT / LIGHT REFLECTIVE
4) bit of time effort and patience to cut into shape. try several slit cut into the edges (about 05 to 1 inch apart) to be able to bed the edge to form a smoothish corner.
5) BE SAFETY CAUTION - should not touch the CFL bulbs
6) BE PLANT DAMAGE cautious - do not let it fall down
7) CHECK THAT it IS SECURED WELL - but consider that few days or a week later you may want to readjust it.
8) Dont worry about making it look perfect - have fun.
9) dont totally cover above the lights - leave some gaps above for hot air to escape up and out.

Try to place the SILVER tape down on the card (in strips slightly overlapping) as smooth as possible and when you bend the cardboard, try to bend it smooth and slowly - see existing ballast deigns and read the posts on 420 for more inspiration.

Obviously this is not as good as a proper ballast - but it is CHEAP, FLEXIBLE and easy to move around.
Throughout my grow, like Chef i was adding / removing / changing lights - so being able to cut and more around these panels have been great fun and really does bounce the light back down. I have a lot of air blowing UP from under the plants.

NOTE - the angle of the pics can be a bit deceptive - the CFLs are all at least 2 to 3 inches from any leaves.
- with less CFLs perhaps be a little bit closer - but this seems a good distance for spreading light and not too much heat. note in the background there are also hanging table lamps upside down which naturally have the ballast top and shoot the light directly down. as a first grow i like experimenting and i can use the lamps after the grow. Check my grow journal for lots more detailed info. Im growing hydro / bubbleponics / dwc and highly recommend it.

 

[ChefKimbo]

Top notch illustration, Bravo!!

Looking at your setup confirms that I need to make a few changes. One thing I noticed is that not one of your CFLs are mounted horizontally. Do you think that could make a difference with your grows? I'm still debating on how to angle the sockets for my reflector. Also, how did you secure the wiring/cords to the ceiling for your adjustable sockets?

Really been considering hydro recently, much cleaner environment. I have a 1/4 submersible and a couple battery operated bubblers to use. What would you say is the minimum to get started in hydro?

 

[Bodhisattva]

Hello sir,

CFL angle or straight: honestly i dont think it makes any difference - in fact having the bulb sideways means more of the effective edge surface area is close to the plant - so probably better. If you search around for posts youll find some sweet horizontal setups using pvc pipes.

the real difference comes in the planning of cfl positioning
AND LST - light bending or tying down - loads of tutorials to be found about this. LST plus positioning = winning.
basically close as you can , but not burning the plants and not too hot (heat only likely to be an issue if hot where you are or.....tonnes of wattage. Im up to 680 watts (led plus CFL) for 4 plants - but that is way overkill. i just want to be able to produce enough personal supply to last me ages and have spent so much time on research and setup and nutes etc that i want an effective first grow.

At your stage my main tip would be to get your plant to spread out wide as much as you can - Even though you are not doing the whole scrog setup with the frame and wires - same principal applies - flat top to cover totally in even light. you cant quite do that yet - but as soon as they are like 2 , 3 , 5 inches long stems you start to pin em down to one side.

Stick with you soil for now. im sure your get great results. when i started growing - in the beginning i kept switching method and medium as i was researching - i messed with seedlings too much - planted them in soli - them moved to coco - then decided i wanted hydro etc. in the end im extremely happy with hydro - but im just saying dont waste time and money by changing. GOOD LST and effective CFL positioning will give good results. Definitely consider LED though later. the cost for you to switch to HYDRO is very high compared to adding an LED.

for bubbleponics / dwc - i found the GROW WEED EASY website incredibly useful. definitely start there. ive been thinking for a while of adding all my extra bits or research that i have found that compliments this site such as (see below)

0) Research - id say at least 5 to 10 hours research would be time will spent - if there is a particular beginner style question you cant answer - chances are i will be able to point out the answer. i spend months researching before planting anything (and still made mistake like i say Grow weed easy is indispensable but it still left a couple of extra questions.

1) you do not need RDWC - DWC is enough. (the reverse bit - eg the the pump that takes the water back up to the top to trickle down. i tried with and without - yes im sure the experts may say RDWC is better than DWC but for me little difference. this is a detailed subject which i can explain more as and when you are ready for hydro.

2) container size - this wasnt obvious - but basically plan ahead - i used 20L buckets per plant - that seems ideal - but depends how big final plants - i was aiming for 50cm to 1m high. they must have good lid seal.

3) plenty of bubbles - generally you cant have too much bubbles - unless you start going nuts with air compressors which may damage the roots. so an aqaurium style air pump with tubing. best to get a 4, 6 or even 8 output one at the beginning - enough for two or three buckets.

4) a totally dark area for your roots. good bucket seal etc. water temp not too high. i used reflective tape on buckets and fans pointed at buckets.

5) a good quality ph pen (or 2) - if one brakes (mine did) and you cant get to the store you could be in trouble. PH is absolutely critical for HYDRO. ph is likley to be the mistake you make - it was for me.

6) ph up and ph down

7) veg nutes

8) flower nutes

9) other nutes (useful but not essential) - more detail to come...

10) Rhizotonic or root grow nutrient (v useful)

6) an EC pen and understanding of EC. this isnt easy to understand - it was probably on my 10th website of searching that i properly understood EC. its not actually as complex as it sounds. again i can help and advise on this. i still made mistakes despite tonnes of research here - but i can help you to avoid those mistakes. in a nutshell - add nutes to the correct EC (say its 0.5) but WHEN you top up....most of the time it will only be PH adjusted water with no nutes! in the early stages i replaced water with the same ec (with nutes) - mistake.

7) fans , lights etc same as other grows.

7.5) humidifier - optional and depends on humidity where you are - but i found very useful. you dont need 3 like i used but one would be handy. bigger the better - and one that has auto-humidity is the BEST. eg set it to 70% and leave it - BOOM.

8) rockwool and the pellet stones around them.

AT the end of my grow - i will probably condense my top tips and SUCCESS factors - but you can read my early ones in my blog.

best go to work

peace!

 

[ChefKimbo]

Hell yea, you've been doing some serious research. I'm the same way, I don't budge until I know enough!!

Well after all the research I did on CFL placement it really came down to just trying something else for me.

So today I remove the other chandelier and added a better solution for lighting. I angled the sockets on a 45 degree and I like the results. I can get the plants inches away from at least 4 bulbs. I think ill add another socket on one end and make it 12 bulbs.

From what I can see, its doing the job well. The plants are responding well. The reflector harbors a decent amount of heat so I added some spare mini pc fans to help move some air away from the bulbs. After this pic I changed things up a lil and moved the light closer. This fixture is much more easily adjustable then the last one. I'm happy with this setup for now, i'll be adding the hanging cfls for positioning as needed during the grow.

Hydro seems very involved, but for me its definitely the future. I have great capacity to make composts for years but hydro must be an option. Specialty Produce is a field I'm very interested in and another reason why I built my first cab. Top notch veggies/herbs/etc. for fine dining only, big business. So the quest for a great harvest of MJ will help fuel my business efforts and give me some knowledge in the game.
Looks like you've gone head first in with Hydro, I hope you put together guide you would do very well.

Good luck with the ladies man!!!