Sureves' First Grow - Indoor Cabinet Soil - 2011 - Bag Seed

sureves

New Member
Re: 3/24

Great price and great product! And no reason other then the positive stuff I saw on the chemical version before I saw organic journals. But both types have a great track record though :) it kind of seems like your talking about two things, soil and nutrients? Or am I mistaken?

Well, when I mentioned soil, I just meant my soil has enough nutrients to last two weeks. When I transplanted last week, I obviously had to use more soil in order to fill up the bigger pots, so does this give me an additional 2 weeks before I need to feed the plants? Or should I do it with the MG salts at the next water, while I'm waiting on the BPN nutes to arrive?
 

sureves

New Member
The Babies on 3/24 - PICTURES

Here are the pictures I promised earlier. Everyone looks fantastic after the proper watering they received yesterday!

Let's start with my burn victims. One looks better than the other, but both have new growth on them. No clue if the burns caused enough stress to make them male; guess only time will tell.

Donna- the worse of the two:
donna324_.JPG


Leap Baby, the other victim:
leapbaby324.JPG


Both of the burned plants are of the totally unknown strain. Let's go with the rest of those plants (they are older too) next.

Michaelina:
michaelina324.JPG


Curly:
curly324.JPG


Sam:
Sam324.JPG



Here are the five younger plants, who are all 3 weeks old today! (supposedly a Cheese x Northern Lights cross)
Emma:
Emma324.JPG


Mary:
mary324.JPG


Followed by Jane (of course!):
jane324.JPG


Gillian:
gillian324.JPG


Lastly, Skye:
skye324.JPG


:love:
 

sureves

New Member
Re: 3/24

Yeah that will give you some more time as far as nutes in the soil. The BPN will arrive next week I can almost guarantee it, I would just hold off :) I like the pics as well!

Okay, I will wait to feed the babies until I get the good nutes. And thanks, I think they are looking pretty good so far. I'm running a 24/0 light schedule currently. What is the earliest I can switch to 12/12 for flowering? I know the amount of time you leave the plant in veg depends on how big you want them to get, but what is the minimum? I'm just curious; I've no idea when I will start to flower.
 

Doc Bud

New Member
Re: 3/24

Okay, I will wait to feed the babies until I get the good nutes. And thanks, I think they are looking pretty good so far. I'm running a 24/0 light schedule currently. What is the earliest I can switch to 12/12 for flowering? I know the amount of time you leave the plant in veg depends on how big you want them to get, but what is the minimum? I'm just curious; I've no idea when I will start to flower.
RE photoperiod:

If I were you, I'd switch to 20/4 for a week, then 18/6 for a week, then 12/12. 24/0 stresses the plants a bit.
 

sureves

New Member
Re: 3/24

RE photoperiod:

If I were you, I'd switch to 20/4 for a week, then 18/6 for a week, then 12/12. 24/0 stresses the plants a bit.

I'd read several differing opinions on whether or not 24/0 is stressful to the plants. I actually was on an 18/6 cycle at first but I switched after researching the matter. I'd be more than willing to go with what you're suggesting though...you think I should begin flowering in two weeks after adjusting the light schedule?
 

Doc Bud

New Member
Re: 3/24

I'd read several differing opinions on whether or not 24/0 is stressful to the plants. I actually was on an 18/6 cycle at first but I switched after researching the matter. I'd be more than willing to go with what you're suggesting though...you think I should begin flowering in two weeks after adjusting the light schedule?

With the amount of space you have, I'd begin flowering ASAP, which I estimate to be about 2 weeks, judging from your pics.
 

sureves

New Member
Re: 3/24

With the amount of space you have, I'd begin flowering ASAP, which I estimate to be about 2 weeks, judging from your pics.

That's exciting news; I thought I'd have to veg them for a bit longer than that, so I'm glad I asked. I went out and got a bunch of Y connectors, so instead of just one bulb, I have 4...or I will once I cut my reflectors. They aren't currently big enough to fit all the bulbs underneath.

I'm also gonna start the 20/4 cycle you recommended tonight. Thanks, Doc. :)
 

sureves

New Member
3/27 - Water day, and Uh Oh, some discoloration...

32711.JPG


Water Day! I did both the weight test and checked the moisture of the soil 3" deep, and sure enough, it was time to water.

I also noticed something troubling...the plants that live in my metal cabinet (as opposed to the desk cab) are mostly showing some discoloration on their leaves. I've taken pictures of this so hopefully one of you geniuses out there can help me out.

First, we have Skye:
skye327.JPG


The lighting is off because of my fluorescent desk lamp - they aren't that lime green. Here's a picture under differently lighting so you get the idea:
102_8377.JPG


Here are a few close-ups on the discolored leaves:
skye327leaf.JPG


Here's Jane, looking pretty good.
Jane14.JPG


Gillian, another with leaf problems:
gillian327.JPG


Close-ups:
gillian327leaf1.JPG
gillian327leaf2.JPG
gillian327leaf3.JPG


Mary:
mary327.JPG


Leaves:
mary327leaf1.JPG
mary327leaf2.JPG


Emma:
emma327.JPG

Leaves:
emma327leaf1.JPG
emma327leaf2.JPG
 

sureves

New Member
3/27 - 2

Here are the other 5 plants.

First up, it's Curly.
curly327.JPG


Sam:
Sam327.JPG


Michaelina:
michaelina327.JPG


These next two plants are my burn victims. Now, I've been reading about topping and Fimming...and it looks as if when these plants got burned, they topped themselves. Let me know what you think, but it looks like there are multiple new growth sites on both plants! First, Leap Baby (which looks to have three growth sites to my admittedly untrained eye):
Leapbaby327-1.JPG


Leapbaby327-2.JPG


leapbaby327-3.JPG


Donna, next. I think there might be 4 sites here!
donna327.JPG


donna327-1.JPG


donna327-2.JPG


donna327-3.JPG
 

Doc Bud

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

Sorry to nag you guys, but does anyone have any idea about my yellowed leaves? I'm just wondering if this is something to be concerned about. I've been trying to research it, and the best guess I have is a Nitrogen deficiency. Would like someone to confirm or deny my hypothesis. :)

You've probably got bad roots, due to overwatering.

Look to the new growth. If it's healthy, you'll be fine.

I highly recommend getting some sort of compost tea, and watering with that. It will fix most problems in soil.

I think most of your problems are minor and are a result of too much water early on. They'll clear up.

Whatever you do, don't start down the pH path....you do that and you're done for. Just get some tea and use that at least weekly.
 

sureves

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

You've probably got bad roots, due to overwatering.

Look to the new growth. If it's healthy, you'll be fine.

.

Doc, in the very limited time I have been on this site, I have learned that you are incredibly knowledgeable about growing Mary Jane. :)

However, I'm 98% sure I didn't overwater. In fact, my previous problems had more to do with UNDERwatering. You see, I didn't realize I needed to put in enough water to make some run out. Prior to me joining this site, I had been using a spray bottle and just really getting the tops wet.

I checked the plants today, and they have some brown spots. It looks like the problem is with the older leaves. Unbeknowest to me, my thermometer I had in there (I have a remote sensor that reports back to a home station that is on my desk) malfunctioned, and the temps in there are currently in the high 80s. I think it was even hotter yesterday - could the yellow leaves with brown spots (and a few dead leaves, I will upload pictures) be due to heat stress?

It was recommended to me to use more CFLs (I had two lights in my cab before; I now have 7), and since then I noticed the temps seemed to be higher. I need to work on getting more airflow into the cab - the chill mat that I thought was perfect isn't working well enough.

I highly recommend getting some sort of compost tea, and watering with that. It will fix most problems in soil.

I'm very interested in this tea idea; however, I know almost nothing about compost tea. Can you give me some more details on what to buy?

Whatever you do, don't start down the pH path....you do that and you're done for. Just get some tea and use that at least weekly.

Of course, I've read that pH monitoring is very important. Why do you view it as a negative aspect? Just curious.

Thanks for your help, Doc.
 

sureves

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

Here are pictures of the brown spots and dying leaves. They appear to be located in the older growth, and have progressively gotten worse. (I just noticed them two days ago.)

Also, I had a malfunctioning thermometer, which allowed the temps to get into the high80s/low 90s. I realize this is an issue, so I'm working to control the temps in there. Could the issues I'm having with the leaves be due to heat stress?

102_8436.JPG


102_8437.JPG


102_8439.JPG


102_8438.JPG


102_8429.JPG


102_8434.JPG


102_8433.JPG


102_8428.JPG


102_8427.JPG
 

Doc Bud

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

Doc, in the very limited time I have been on this site, I have learned that you are incredibly knowledgeable about growing Mary Jane. :)

However, I'm 98% sure I didn't overwater. In fact, my previous problems had more to do with UNDERwatering. You see, I didn't realize I needed to put in enough water to make some run out. Prior to me joining this site, I had been using a spray bottle and just really getting the tops wet.

I checked the plants today, and they have some brown spots. It looks like the problem is with the older leaves. Unbeknowest to me, my thermometer I had in there (I have a remote sensor that reports back to a home station that is on my desk) malfunctioned, and the temps in there are currently in the high 80s. I think it was even hotter yesterday - could the yellow leaves with brown spots (and a few dead leaves, I will upload pictures) be due to heat stress?

It was recommended to me to use more CFLs (I had two lights in my cab before; I now have 7), and since then I noticed the temps seemed to be higher. I need to work on getting more airflow into the cab - the chill mat that I thought was perfect isn't working well enough.



I'm very interested in this tea idea; however, I know almost nothing about compost tea. Can you give me some more details on what to buy?



Of course, I've read that pH monitoring is very important. Why do you view it as a negative aspect? Just curious.

Thanks for your help, Doc.

Ah....underwatering will also make for poor roots....either way that's what that plant looks like to me....a root issue.

The compost/worm tea is very important in soil. Soil should be alive with microbes and beneficial fungi. Plants in soil work hard at growing roots, so they prefer to have their meals catered by microbes....which is how God designed plants to grow.

Compost tea is a microbial tea and helps make soil healthy and alive. There are several ways of getting this....try garden shops or a hydro shop. If that doesn't yield any leads, you can always buy online.

I'm using a tea called, "Nature's Own." Not too expensive, but worth it's weight in gold.

pH monitoring: aye yi yi.

In hydro, pH is everything...nothing is more important.

However, that's not the case in soil.....not at all. First of all, most potting soil is already pH balanced to begin with. It's also a powerful buffer, meaning that you can add all kinds of water at various pH, both low and high, and the soil will neutralize the acid or base, as the case may be, and the pH in the soil stays right where it's supposed to be.

Adding pH down (phosphoric acid) will indeed lower the pH of your water....but it won't overcome the buffering effect of the soil, so there's no point in adding it. In fact, it will actually harm your plants because phosphoric acid kills the microbial life AND upsets the balance of available nutrients to the plant.

A large container, IE 3 gallons or more, of quality potting soil needs no pHing. If you use some compost tea, you're in even better shape, because the microbes adjust pH on the fly all the time. That's what they do. When they're munching on a rock, they might get down to a pH of 2 or 3 in order to ionize that calcium.....but when munching on a piece of bat poop, they might self adjust their pH to 7.4 in order to deal with the acidic nature of bat poop.

They are your friends. They do all the feeding. Keep them happy and you'll have some high quality smoke.

There's a lot of mis-information and outright bad information on pot-forums when it comes to growing in soil. I believe the bad info comes from hydro growers, who have influenced newer, inexperienced soil growers.

I say stuff like this all the time and am often met with resistance....but if you talk to people who have taken my advice I think you'll find that they're usually happy they did.

I also have grown plants that are fairly healthy from time to time, so I can back up my words with OK results......

I haven't checked or paid any attention to pH in a long, long time.
 

Doc Bud

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

Here are pictures of the brown spots and dying leaves. They appear to be located in the older growth, and have progressively gotten worse. (I just noticed them two days ago.)

Also, I had a malfunctioning thermometer, which allowed the temps to get into the high80s/low 90s. I realize this is an issue, so I'm working to control the temps in there. Could the issues I'm having with the leaves be due to heat stress?

102_8436.JPG


102_8437.JPG


102_8439.JPG


102_8438.JPG


102_8429.JPG


102_8434.JPG


102_8433.JPG


102_8428.JPG


102_8427.JPG

The new growth looks good. You've got nothing to worry about...barring other factors.

What size pots are you in?
 

sureves

New Member
3/30

I purchased a different soil - it's called Hi-Yield All-purpose potting mix...it has a no bark formula, and is comprised of Canadian sphagnum peat moss, perlite, Calcitic and dolomitic limestone, a "water-soluable starter charge", and a "professional wetting agent". I'm not really sure what these last two mean.

I can't really transplant into bigger pots, however. My grow space is very small and I don't really have the space for larger diameter pots. (I attempted to transplant but the roots are pretty well holding the soil they currently are in together, so I just lifted them out, put new soil on the bottom, sides, and top.)

Since I couldn't find a compost tea, even at my local gardening shop (she tried to sell me a bag of cow manure, which I didn't think was the right thing) , I also got two organic nutrient bags. (I was going to get BPN but I really don't have the money for it, not even paying just the shipping, so these $5 bags are gonna have to do for now - hopefully my next grow will be smoother!) They are both Espoma brand organics . The first is called Plant-tone and has a 5-3-3 rating...it also has this statement on the analysis label: "Plant-tone is a complete plant food. It contains all the essential plant nutrients." It also has a giant list...if anyone is curious, I can take a picture of the label and upload it later. I also got Bone Meal from the same company, which lists 4-12-0 on the label. I was told I would need something similar to this when I begin flowering, which I think I am going to start Monday unless someone has any advice.


I'm a little confused as to how often I should use the nutes...the Plant-tone says to "Mix thoroughly 1 part Plant-tone to 25 parts soil. Feed established potted plants 1 teaspoonful of PLant-Tone for each 3 inches of pot diameter. Repeat Monthly"

Is this what I would do for my plants? I have 6" plants so according to the directions, I would give them 2 teaspoons per month.
 

sureves

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

The new growth looks good. You've got nothing to worry about...barring other factors.

What size pots are you in?

I'm in 6" pots...and thanks, Doc, for your fantastic help. And my other worry factor already showed up...in the form of my mother finding my plants. :yikes:

I'm thinking of starting to flower Monday. What do you think?
 

sureves

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

pH monitoring: aye yi yi.

In hydro, pH is everything...nothing is more important.

However, that's not the case in soil.....not at all. First of all, most potting soil is already pH balanced to begin with. It's also a powerful buffer, meaning that you can add all kinds of water at various pH, both low and high, and the soil will neutralize the acid or base, as the case may be, and the pH in the soil stays right where it's supposed to be.

Adding pH down (phosphoric acid) will indeed lower the pH of your water....but it won't overcome the buffering effect of the soil, so there's no point in adding it. In fact, it will actually harm your plants because phosphoric acid kills the microbial life AND upsets the balance of available nutrients to the plant.

A large container, IE 3 gallons or more, of quality potting soil needs no pHing. If you use some compost tea, you're in even better shape, because the microbes adjust pH on the fly all the time. That's what they do. When they're munching on a rock, they might get down to a pH of 2 or 3 in order to ionize that calcium.....but when munching on a piece of bat poop, they might self adjust their pH to 7.4 in order to deal with the acidic nature of bat poop.

They are your friends. They do all the feeding. Keep them happy and you'll have some high quality smoke.

There's a lot of mis-information and outright bad information on pot-forums when it comes to growing in soil. I believe the bad info comes from hydro growers, who have influenced newer, inexperienced soil growers.

I say stuff like this all the time and am often met with resistance....but if you talk to people who have taken my advice I think you'll find that they're usually happy they did.

I also have grown plants that are fairly healthy from time to time, so I can back up my words with OK results......

I haven't checked or paid any attention to pH in a long, long time.

So, you use the compost tea in addition to other nutrients? Perhaps I should have inquired about microbial tea instead of compost tea, since the chick at the garden store tried to sell me a bag of cow manure. :\
 

Doc Bud

New Member
Re: Sureves' First Grow(Indoor Cabinet Soil) 2011--Bag Seed

So, you use the compost tea in addition to other nutrients? Perhaps I should have inquired about microbial tea instead of compost tea, since the chick at the garden store tried to sell me a bag of cow manure. :\

Compost tea IS microbial tea. There's compost, worm tea, guano tea....and teas that contain other stuff too.

Compost tea is perfect for what we do, as is worm tea.
 
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