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SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Sue, thanks for cleaning this up, but I’m still wondering about some of the numbers.

1) why is the drying time (small batch) temp and time for High THC so much higher than the others? 15 & 30 min seems appropriate for both CBD and THC, small and large batches, but 60 min @ 248°F doesn’t make sense. I’ve looked and looked for this in the doc. and can’t find it.

2) The boiling point of water is 212°F. If we dry at that temp or higher won’t that rupture cells and have a detrimental effect on the material?

Don’t mean to criticize, just trying to make sense of all the numbers!
No criticism heard or taken. We’re just doing our best to get it right Mike. :5:

I’ll look it over and get back here tomorrow.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Thank you @medmanmike. It appears I did get this wrong. I’ll have Teddy switch out.

This is how the material is presented in the patent application. I think I have it sorted out. Let me rework and have you all proofread for me.

Preferably, decarboxylation is carried out in a multi-step heating process in which the plant material is:

  • i) heated to a first temperature for a first (relatively short) time period to evaporate off retained water and allow for uniform heating of the plant material; and
  • ii) the temperature is increased to a second temperature for a second time period (typically longer than the first time period) until at least 95% conversion of the acid cannabinoids to their neutral form has occurred.
Drying - 105° C (221° F) for 15 minutes

Preferably the first step is conducted at a temperature in the range of 100° C. to 110° C. for 10–20 minutes. More preferably the first temperature is about 105° C. and the first time period is about 15 minutes.

CBD - 120° C (248° F) for 60 minutes

Or Preferred:
- 140° C (284° F) for 30 minutes
Large batch (> 4 oz) 145° C (293° F)


If the plant material is derived from cannabis plants having a high CBD content (defined as >90% CBD as a percentage of total cannabinoid content), the second temperature is preferably in the range from 115° C. to 125° C., preferably about 120° C. and the second time period is in the range from 45 to 75 minutes, preferably about 60 minutes. More preferably the second temperature is in the range from 135° C. to 145° C., preferably 140° C. and the second time period is in the range from 15 to 45 minutes, preferably about 30 minutes. In another embodiment, most preferred for a mass of plant material greater than 4 kg, the second temperature is in the range from 140° C. to 150° C., preferably 145° C. and the second time period is in the range from 55–90 minutes. The latter conditions are preferred for processing amounts of, for example, 4–6 kg of starting plant material and the exact figures, particularly time, may vary slightly with increased mass.


THC - 120° C (248° F) for 60 minutes
Or Preferred:
- 110° C (230° F) for 110 minutes
Large batch (> 4 oz) 145° C (2


If the plant material is derived from cannabis plants having a high THC content (defined as >90% THC as a percentage of total cannabinoid content), the second temperature is preferably in the range of 115° C. to 125° C., typically 120° C., and the second time period is preferably in the range of 45 minutes to 75 minutes, typically about 60 minutes. More preferably the second temperature is in the range of 100° C. to 110° C., typically 105° C., and the second time period is in the range of 60 to 120 minutes. In another embodiment, most preferred for a mass of plant material greater than 4 kg, the second temperature is in the range of 140° C. to 150° C., preferably 145° C., and the second time period is in the range of 45 to 55 minutes.

Most preferably the decarboxylation step is conducted at temperatures and for times which ensure at least 97% conversion of the acid cannabinoids to their neutral form, whilst ensuring thermal degradation of THC to CBN is less than 5%.
 
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SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Did I get it right this time? :4:

Decarbing For Maximum Neutral Cannabinoids (~ 95% conversion)

High CBD chemovar (strain)



Heat 15 minutes @ 221° F (105° C) to dry.

Continue heating either

* 60 minutes @ 248° F (120° C)
* 30 minutes @ 284° F (140° C)

Large Batch (larger than 4 oz)

* 15 minutes @ 221° F (105° C) to dry
* Continue 55-90 min @ 293° F (145° C)


High THC chemovar (strain)

Heat 15 minutes @221° F (105° C) to dry

Continue heating for either

* 60-120 minutes @ 248° F (120° C)
* 110 minutes @ 230°F (110° C)

Large Batch (larger than 4 oz)

*15 minutes @ 221° F (105° C) to dry

* Continue 45-55 min @ 293°F (145° C)
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Looking at it I can see how I transposed all over the place. Maybe the daughter isn’t the only one dealing with a little dyslexia. :laugh2:

True story: I started my college journey as an accounting major. Then I discovered I’d transpose numbers too often. :19:
 

Chris Scorpio

Member of the Month: July 2018
Looking at it I can see how I transposed all over the place. Maybe the daughter isn’t the only one dealing with a little dyslexia. :laugh2:

True story: I started my college journey as an accounting major. Then I discovered I’d transpose numbers too often. :19:
Have you figured this out in an IP yet dear????
 

Chris Scorpio

Member of the Month: July 2018
Meaning application of these temps and time in the Instant pot

Do u think, like we talked, the warm up process drys it

Then the time in the IP does the rest?
 

Chris Scorpio

Member of the Month: July 2018
From the Instant Pot manual

Working temperature: 115°C ~ 118°C (239°F ~ 244°F) at high pressure setting; 110°C ~
112°C (229 ~ 233°F) at low pressure settin

From the IP temps
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
From the IP temps
I understand what you mean. The abbreviations throw me sometimes. :laugh2:

Hmmmm....I was thinking yesterday that I may want to either add an oven decarb or put it through two, possibly three cycles.

Although I can’t prove it yet I suspect there’s more going on in decarb than we realize.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Chris, when I was visiting beez he called IP and talked with a customer service rep who told us the high pressure temp stays around 235° F. That works for me.

I’ve tested it in hot oil and I feel confident we get a maximum decarb with one cycle. None of which explains how it can somehow potentiate further if it’s run through again.

Brix makes his oil thusly:

1. Load a couple bags of trim into a stock pot.

2. Add two cups of coconut oil and enough water to cover the plant material.

3. Bring to a boil and simmer for an hour, stirring when you think of it.

4. Let the mix cool completely.

5. Repeat the simmer and cooling cycles two more times.

6. Strain and store for use.

His oils are much more potent than mine, in part because he loads the pot with plant material - none of which is weighed beforehand - and because he goes through the cycle three times.

I understand that most of the difference between our oils is plant material volume, but one of his capsules hits the way 8 of mine do.

What I am certain of is we aren’t degrading THC the way we always suspected, because it doesn’t happen that quickly.

I’m wondering if it’d be a better idea to use the lower pressure setting if I’m doing more than one cycle?
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
There can’t be enough time in the IP warmup to dry the plant material, IMO.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
I'm guessing the water completely boils off by the end of the third simmering process?

It’s a b-I-g stock pot. He still has to drain a significant amount of water off.

Before I moved my practice was to drop the buds into a closed container with a rice ball for a couple hours. Do you think that accomplishes the same level of drying as 15 min in the oven?

Found this while exploring. :3:

 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018
15 minutes in the oven would probably get the buds a lot closer to 0% RH than you could do with rice balls. See how low you can get the RH in the jar with the rice, and next time pull the buds out of the oven after 15 minutes and see what the meter reads...science!
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
15 minutes in the oven would probably get the buds a lot closer to 0% RH than you could do with rice balls. See how low you can get the RH in the jar with the rice, and next time pull the buds out of the oven after 15 minutes and see what the meter reads...science!
In the name of science I’ll do that. :3: I’ll be making brownies next week. I’ll split the buds into two and do it both ways.
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
I'm looking forward to this!
I’ll do it tomorrow or Saturday. I’ll need an oven bag. There’s really no need to wait until I make brownies. :laugh2: I have nug jars the buds can hang out in. :4::green_heart:


I didn’t realize until just now that the larger jars are in storage. IMO, they’re the best of the prizes. :laugh2: Imagine Graytail’s collection or Cola Monster’s.

Whoa! :smokin2:
 
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