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SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

gr865

Well-Known Member
Sue, I made those gummy's sort of by memory. I cannot find Dave Groomers gummy recipe, if anyone finds it let me know where and what post, please.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Do we know of any real numbers on multiple cycles of infused oil? We've been theorizing for years now about how much you can expect to pick up before saturation levels hit, but I don't recall any firm data to demonstrate how many cycles come close to it.

I'd prefer infusion over making CCO, if at all possible, and I'd like to get suppositories close to 20 mg of THC in the end. I'm feeling like the 10 mg ones are beginning to have subtle healing effects, and I want to stick to one or two a day, maximum. I have this sneaking suspicion that a well-thought-out suppository regimen would give the same types of biological advantages that expensive CCO protocols would offer, over more more time and using significantly lower doses.

This is an enticing protocol. Before I started it I had all these little aches and pains off on the edges that aren't noticable anymore. As far as I've been able to determine the protocol has had no effect on my ability to get high, and hasn't yet offered any noticable psychoactivity.

I realize my euphoric levels are fairly constant, which can skewer my ability to guage subtleties the suppositories may introduce. :laugh2:
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
Sue have you heard of the Bud Wig Protocol. This was the protocol that my friend did for his Bladder Cancer.
They first discovered the cancer in 2008 when I move back here from NorCal. He did chemo and radiation and they said he was in remission. Well it came back in about 8 months and they did another round of chemo, rad, and they declared him in remission again. It came back with a fury about 6 months later and he decided he was not going to let chemo kill him so he went to OR., where at the time you did not have to be a citizen to get a med card. He went to a clinic with all his paperwork and got the script for FECO/CCO, bought twice what he needed and came back home where he began the Budwig Protocol. Apparently the Budwig protocol method makes the oil water soluble and a shit load stronger. Said he has never been that high in his life.
He has been cancer free since 2010, does 200 mg of FECO/CCO daily and a maintenance dose. He is my age and looks great, cannot tell he was sick at all, plays in a Reggae band that has had a standing gig for the past 8 years at a club on Wed. nights.
This is what made me a true believer in FECO/CCO and become a Cannabis Warrior. Since then I have seen two women cure their breast cancer, one had a double mastectomy before the cancer moved to her lungs. She did all the chemo/rad protocols and after it move to her lungs she began FECO/CCO, and has been cancer free for 4 yrs. The other lady is one I am working with now, got her started on FECO after she completed a chemo/rad treatment. She has been on a high maintenance dose (750 mg twice a day) and has a followup Dr. appt in another month. She has recovered from treatments and looks very good. Say's on inspection she feels no new growths in her breast and is doing well.

If my PSA numbers increase on this next blood test I plan on doing another FECO/CCO protocol, did a protocol a few years ago for increased PSA and the numbers dropped over a full 1.7 points in 6 months. I ended up doing 100 plus grams over the 6 month program. I was able to function, drive, be around people but fuck, I was so stoned I don't remember much of that time period.
I have been doing a 200 mg maintenance dose of oil daily and have my next test in April. I am also reading up a using FECO/CCO for my COPD, still researching it.
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018, Jan 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
IMO, the true secret of the original Budwig protocol is its ability to increase oxygen levels in cells. Cancer can’t live in a highly-oxygenated state. Adding CCO to the process amplifies the healing potential.

Makes you wonder why an intensive breathing protocol and nutritional remake isn’t the first wave of treatment with a cancer diagnosis. :17:
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
I dare say you are not the best test subject! How can anyone gauge your results against those with more pedestrian THC levels?
:laugh2: But I’m the only test subject I have that’ll try the suppositories.
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
Sue have you heard of the Bud Wig Protocol. This was the protocol that my friend did for his Bladder Cancer.
They first discovered the cancer in 2008 when I move back here from NorCal. He did chemo and radiation and they said he was in remission. Well it came back in about 8 months and they did another round of chemo, rad, and they declared him in remission again. It came back with a fury about 6 months later and he decided he was not going to let chemo kill him so he went to OR., where at the time you did not have to be a citizen to get a med card. He went to a clinic with all his paperwork and got the script for FECO/CCO, bought twice what he needed and came back home where he began the Budwig Protocol. Apparently the Budwig protocol method makes the oil water soluble and a shit load stronger. Said he has never been that high in his life.
He has been cancer free since 2010, does 200 mg of FECO/CCO daily and a maintenance dose. He is my age and looks great, cannot tell he was sick at all, plays in a Reggae band that has had a standing gig for the past 8 years at a club on Wed. nights.
This is what made me a true believer in FECO/CCO and become a Cannabis Warrior. Since then I have seen two women cure their breast cancer, one had a double mastectomy before the cancer moved to her lungs. She did all the chemo/rad protocols and after it move to her lungs she began FECO/CCO, and has been cancer free for 4 yrs. The other lady is one I am working with now, got her started on FECO after she completed a chemo/rad treatment. She has been on a high maintenance dose (750 mg twice a day) and has a followup Dr. appt in another month. She has recovered from treatments and looks very good. Say's on inspection she feels no new growths in her breast and is doing well.

If my PSA numbers increase on this next blood test I plan on doing another FECO/CCO protocol, did a protocol a few years ago for increased PSA and the numbers dropped over a full 1.7 points in 6 months. I ended up doing 100 plus grams over the 6 month program. I was able to function, drive, be around people but fuck, I was so stoned I don't remember much of that time period.
I have been doing a 200 mg maintenance dose of oil daily and have my next test in April. I am also reading up a using FECO/CCO for my COPD, still researching it.

Sue that should be the CannBudwig Protocol.

 

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
Sue would love you and your follower's thoughts on this. Most of what is written about the psych effect of topicals seems to me is inconclusive, uncommitted, vague, misleading and often downright wrong.

I have the observation from two people now that have used my topicals, both new (or recently returning) cannabis users, that there is, clearly, those effects.

After these observations this would be my response to that effect, "It's not a clear yes or no!" Which is my entire point about the widespread vagueness in the first place! lol So my clarity here is to identify and try to quantify... this shadow :)

There are multiple motivations to the vagueness, a major one being you don't want to scare away first time users that may have a stigma against cannabis. It would be a shame if they missed out on this beneficial product, right?

When I hand someone my cream or oil and they ask, "Will this get me high?", this is my considered answer:

This product will probably help your topical pain and inflammation. Depending on the dose, many users report varying intensities of well being or relaxation in addition to the physical relief. Start with a small dab and you'll be perfectly OK, then adjust to your personal preference.

All these articles about the blood/brain/skin barriers were distracting and now I realize they were leading me off the path of how best to help others!
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018, Jan 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018

HashGirl

Well-Known Member
Let's not discount the placebo effect. I wonder how many get a psychoactive effect when told it's just made from aloe.
I was thinking the same thing. :4:
 

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
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Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
Most of what is written about the psych effect of topicals seems to me is inconclusive, uncommitted, vague, misleading and often downright wrong.
I'm in touch with an author and cannabis topical product seller that is trying to debunk this prevalent and false narrative that topicals don't get you high. They do indeed, and it seems to be determined by the location of application, the amount of oleic acid in the carrier oils and the THC dose.

People in the cannabis community do not wish to turn off new users, which seems to be perpetuating this myth, plus the fact that many people use topicals WITHOUT feeling high and they assume their experience is universal.

Add to that the long entrenched culture of topicals, be it sunscreen, makeup, soaps, ointments, creams and powders. Many product chemical profiles have been changed in recent years in response to NEW scientific proof of crossing the skin/blood "barrier"... baby powder and sunscreen come to immediate mind. One study from 1987 abstracts, "It is becoming apparent though that skin is not quite as impermeable as often believed."

So if someone asks you if topicals will get you high or fail a drug test, the correct answer is, "It depends."

So far I know that coconut oil has no oleic acid. My topicals use that and shea, cocoa, pumpkin, grape seed and almond oils.
 
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SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Thank you Brian. :5: That explains the new narrative out there. The cautions are hands, feet, wrists - places where blood vessels come closer to the surface.

That would mean our friendly upper back applications would be most responsibly presented with a slightly revised explanation. We’ve always been up front about the subtle mood adjustment possible. Interesting...... could that small of oleic acid in grape seed oil be having that profound an effect?

Apparently so. :hmmmm:

The cautionary spots for topicals are also the places we’ve been explaining would be good for reaching deep pain. Now we know why.

Oleic acid.... it’s the majority acid in olive oil, which isn’t my choice ever for topicals.

It comprises 15-20% of grape seed oil. :17:

Hmmm..... time to look at alternatives? Almond is a favorite of mine. That pumpkin seed oil is good too. Coconut is the only other one I’ve really used for skin, since it’s so good for the skin anyway.

Do we have any information forthcoming about the ranges of psychoactivity being presented by topicals? Are we talking serious impairment or low-level mood adjustment? Not that it matters to a frightened novice.

Learn something new every day. :3:
 

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
Are we talking serious impairment or low-level mood adjustment? Not that it matters to a frightened novice.
For me it's low level mood adjustment, for my friend it's a little below a normal dose, heightened senses, minor euphoria, then sleepiness on the down side. For the author it's more pronounced where she doesn't drive after applying her own products.

So formulation, dosage and application location are the factors. Here's the thing, if you remove the oleic acid, you REDUCE the depth of penetration and the beneficial aspects of the product... pain relief and inflammation reduction.

When I think of how best to break this all down, knowing the percent of oleic acid and THC mg per application will be my focus for now. As I learn more I will adapt, but of course :)

Oleic acid (OA) has been known to be a penetration enhancer for several decades. The polar head group of OA interacts with the head groups of the stratum corneum lipids; the cis-double bond near the middle of the tail group leads to a “kink” in the chain, thus leading to increased fluidity of the stratum corneum lipids when OA intercalates with them.4 Using 2-photon scanning fluorescence microscopy, Yu et al. have shown that OA’s effects as an enhancer result from both an increase in the vehicle/skin partition coefficient and an increase in the skin diffusion coefficient.5 Fatty acids can form ion pairs with amine-containing drugs, facilitating the diffusion of this more hydrophobic species into the stratum corneum.6 While 18 carbons appear to be the optimal chain length for enhancement among unsaturated fatty acids (viz, oleic acid), 10 to 12 carbons are optimal for saturated fatty acid chains.2 Propylene glycol monolaurate (PGML) and propylene glycol monocaprate (the 10-carbon analog) are examples of enhancers in this class found in some topical and transdermal products; they are also good solvents for a variety of drugs. Glycerol monoesters (such as glycerol monolaurate, glycerol monocaprate, glycerol monocaprylate, and glycerol monooleate) are another class of enhancer lipids used topically.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
It thrills me and terrifies me all at once. I love what I do. :yahoo:


Gotta stop and go to bed. :laugh2:
 

Amy Gardner

Member of the Month: March 2018 - Photo of the Month: April, Dec 2018, Apr, Sept 2019
High Sue :ciao: Catching up and coming back to repy to you about the “biphasic” question you asked a while back, and also referenced in your study notes blog recently too

Biphasic, in relation cannabinoids, refers to their capacity to produce an opposite effect at a higher dose than the effect at a lower dose.

Most substances effects simply get stronger (to saturation point) if we take more. Cannabis isnt like that, it’s biphasic.

So yes, as you metioned here earlier, that may well account for what you felt were almost opposite effects from the .1 and .2 doses. In my study on this the case examples discussed showed how a chemovar that would induce anxiety at a regular, close to recreational, dose, actually sucessfully managed anxiety in the same person at a micro dose. SO that’s an example of it in action. Also e.g. a small amount of my bubba hash is energising, lots of it is sedating.

So your comment in the study notes that biphasic may just mean the dose-dependent thing and to start lo and go slo... not really. Biphasic points to a specific and kind of paradoxical effect.

I think with THC this is very pronounced.

It happens for me with CBD as well.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
High Sue :ciao: Catching up and coming back to repy to you about the “biphasic” question you asked a while back, and also referenced in your study notes blog recently too

Biphasic, in relation cannabinoids, refers to their capacity to produce an opposite effect at a higher dose than the effect at a lower dose.

Most substances effects simply get stronger (to saturation point) if we take more. Cannabis isnt like that, it’s biphasic.

So yes, as you metioned here earlier, that may well account for what you felt were almost opposite effects from the .1 and .2 doses. In my study on this the case examples discussed showed how a chemovar that would induce anxiety at a regular, close to recreational, dose, actually sucessfully managed anxiety in the same person at a micro dose. SO that’s an example of it in action. Also e.g. a small amount of my bubba hash is energising, lots of it is sedating.

So your comment in the study notes that biphasic may just mean the dose-dependent thing and to start lo and go slo... not really. Biphasic points to a specific and kind of paradoxical effect.

I think with THC this is very pronounced.

It happens for me with CBD as well.
Thank you for the clarification Amy. :5:

What made it click to me was “Most substances effects simply get stronger (to saturation point) if we take more. Cannabis isnt like that, it’s biphasic.”

For someone like me who uses cannabis mostly as a recreational and has little if any pain the experience of dosing is different than with someone using cannabis as medicine. Hmmm.... it reinforces the advice to listen closely to the body’s response to the dose and be courageous enough to try something different if you’re getting opposite results than you expected.

So... if you’re taking a low dose of CBD and it makes you a little manic, try a higher dose? If THC is making you anxious at a dose you thought was workable, try it at a lower dose? How much higher or lower, would be the next question. It’s so helpful that no one gets hurt in the experimentation stage. :green_heart:

In cancer regimens it’s recommended that if you think you’re on the right track but the results are coming out contrary to what you expected, try flipping the cannabinoid ratios. Again, the biphasic nature in action.

OK.... start low and titrate slowly, but be alert that cannabis can be a little trickier. :laugh2: I can see the article on this topic will be lots of fun too. Lol!
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016

Brian420pm

Well-Known Member
Biphasic, in relation cannabinoids, refers to their capacity to produce an opposite effect at a higher dose than the effect at a lower dose.
Hmm, could this be the mechanism at play when you hear from those poor souls tasked with judging at cannabis cup competitions (awwww hehe) where they consume dozens of entries. They share a similar experience of reaching a plateau and/or reversals, often attributed to the cultivar instead of just the THC saturation.
 
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