Tangwena's Malawi-Style Cob Cure: Fermented Cannabis

[SweetSue]

@lazyfish....

There’s no reason to fear either ridicule or banning. Not while I guard the door.

I think we all hear you.

What are ways to overcome the dangers? Will smoking alone be any protection? Is there some testing that could earn of any problems, or give the relief of knowing the product wasn’t infected?

I’m gonna be real busy for the next few days. I’ll jump in where I can. I’ll do my best to get the materials read ASAP.

 

[Neiko]

I think that's a legitimate concern Lazy. Is your concern only during the fermenting process? If you remember I did test a cob and it was remarkably clean. The lab even commented on the lack of microbial activity. Maybe taking it out to dry between sweating and fermenting will prevent C. Bot. from growing?

 

[SweetSue]

I think that's a legitimate concern Lazy. Is your concern only during the fermenting process? If you remember I did test a cob and it was remarkably clean. The lab even commented on the lack of microbial activity. Maybe taking it out to dry between sweating and fermenting will prevent C. Bot. from growing?

I was getting ready to pull that up and recheck, because that was my recollection Neiko. It was one of the reasons we let the passion for cobbing run wild.

Is there anyone in a legal state cobbing - other than Neiko - who can get testing done? I think we may be able to work out a cost-sharing program, and it’d bring us a greater level of confidence to have more test results behind us.

 

[Tennessee Tim]

I too, think it could be dangerous. Drying the final product may make it safer to eat. Smoking is very nice, but eating it is great! Testing is good. The answer may be in a quick heat treatment to render fungi and bacterium safe. Valid concern, for sure, that has been nagging at me! Many home canning practices have killed or sickened people due to lack of concern for safe practices! Thanks Lazyfish, for stating this concern so sincerely!

 

[Tennessee Tim]

BTW, I have just heat treated a bit of cob and it seems to be coming on even quicker! I have only (after this experiment) 5-6 grams of ready cob on hand at this time, left to test with. I heated the sample (6 grams)in a micro wave (1100 watts) until it read 130 degrees with laser temp gun, then heated in preheated hot 350 degree oven until fragrant (a couple minutes) . Reading the temp was difficult immediately and it cooled fast when removed from dish . Never got a reading over 150 after removing from oven dish, but I think it got hotter inside and cooled quickly. WHO KNOWS! It made me feel better about eating it,at least!

 

[Weaselcracker]

I think we need to be more cautious about eating cobs.

Pardon my french but I am fucking serious.

@SweetSue - I sent you an email

!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we are creating the perfect environment for Clostridium botulinum (C. bot.) to grow. This is a big deal. I am honestly a little scared that there are so many of us that might be eating these cobs. Smoking is fine. Making tea by boiling for 5 minutes should be fine, but eating a raw fermented cob is not something that I think I consider safe.

If you read anywhere about C. bot:

Clostridium botulinum Neurotoxins - microbewiki

microbewiki.kenyon.edu

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onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Botulism

WHO fact sheet on botulism: includes key facts, definition, symptoms, exposure, transmission, treatment, prevention, WHO response.

www.who.int

This one is specifically about cannabis and also mentions concerns about C. bot:

https://cannabissafetyinstitute.org...icrobiological-Safety-Testing-of-Cannabis.pdf

C. bot. produces one of the most deadly neurotoxin know to mankind. C. bot is everywhere (soil, they can travel by dust).

The environment is grows and produces it's toxin is:
- warm 30 degrees C or 100 deg. F
- neutral pH
- environment devoid of oxygen
- moist environment with water activity between 0.85 and 1.00

Sounds a lot like a cob, huh?

Botulism toxicity happens quick and the symptoms are:
- Difficulty swallowing or speaking.
- Dry mouth.
- Facial weakness on both sides of the face.
- Blurred or double vision.
- Drooping eyelids.
- Trouble breathing.
- Nausea, vomiting and abdominal cramps.
- Paralysis.

As per WHO:
Symptoms usually appear within 12 to 36 hours (within a minimum and maximum range of 4 hours to 8 days) after exposure. Incidence of botulism is low, but the mortality rate is high if prompt diagnosis and appropriate, immediate treatment (early administration of antitoxin and intensive respiratory care) are not given. The disease can be fatal in 5 to 10% of cases.

If these symptoms are mixed up with eating too much canna, the opportunity to get the person to the hospital in time might be missed.

I am seriously, SERIOUSLY concerned about this recipe getting out and a pile of people eating this stuff and killing their family. @420 I think this thread needs a warning or something at the beginning.

I am so sorry that it has come to this. I am sorry Tangwena, I am sorry Sue, I am sorry Everyone. Cobs are glorious. 420 is glorious. I adore all you folks. This fishtank that we call 420mag feels a lot like home to me and my only desire is only to keep people safe and happy. This has weighed on my mind for a while now, and I finally had to come forward and express my seemingly scientifically sound opinion.

I hope this reaches you well and I don't get banned or ridiculed to death.

Cheers Friends,

Please be safe,

Much LOVE,

Sincerely, Lazyfish

Hey @lazyfish. I think the most important relevant factor here is the acidity of the cob. Acidity is the basis of preserving most fermented products. Not including alcohol of course. But wine, beer, and hard liquor are all acidic anyway and generally have a ph less than 4.
C Bot. can’t live with a ph below 4.6.
I haven’t tested the ph of a cob and am far away from home now so not in a position to do that. Maybe one of you guys can sacrifice some and test a cob slurry. I did test the ph of bud once (can’t remember the ph and couldn’t find it in my journal) and seem to remember that it was fairly acidic, but the cobbing process may well change that. If it didn’t then some added vinegar or citric acid powder in the process sure would.
I do a fair amount of fermenting- beer, wine, kimchi, sauerkraut, pickles, etc and they are tested and true processes. Cob seems to be one of those well tested processes as well, though maybe people have just been getting lucky all this time? Botulism is fairly rare after all.

 

[Triumph trophy]

Hi Sue.
I think it was Neil Young that said it's better to burn out than to fade away.
This one was grown in your honor.
four canaries and their cobs.

I grew up on a farm.
This is a very similar process to what we used to do with the grass for the cows. In our damp and humid environment hay ( dried grass) could very easily get mouldy.
So we used to make silage. Fermented Hay.

thank you for getting this ball rolling

 

[Lerugged]

Hi all. Such a cool thread. Have not read it all yet. Some chefly knowledge tells me if you sterile and exact with what you are doing you should be ok. Nitrites are used extensively when curing hams to prevent bot. I've also used a gas flush which prevents bot forming but it might interfere with the microbes. I grew up in a time in south Africa where cobs were easily available and they are great. Different from cured Malawi .I have not seen or heard of it for years. I recon you should be fine it's been consumed for years buried in the ground. Just be clinical and dry it throughly . Smoking prob better . If it has any black mould dispose of it immediately. Will read up as time allows

 

[kelticBlue]

Is there anyone in a legal state cobbing - other than Neiko - who can get testing done?

so sorry now, I dont have enough on hand to test, ((not sure what they test for??) ((here it is all Kush people so i imagine it is a thc testing type of thing.))
I have not seriously looked into testing since numbers mean very little to me. And In all honesty I dont like the vibe in the place where I can get testing done, I dont look the stoner type I guess so I get the shit-stick attitude.

Mine is all for my missus smoke but I will be trying to perfect the cob in the future. I will gladly make enough to test next harvest but that is 6 months away, good luck

 

[tangwena]

Every now and then a little paranoia raises its head this style of curing is hundreds of years old if it was dangerous we would know. What about chewing baccy anyone died from that?
If your the insecure paranoid type dont chew it simple in fact dont leave the house oh no there are so many potential killers in the house as well hell we are all going to die I'm shitting myself to leave my safe, so far seat.
I'm all for being safe and not harming anyone but just inventing a reason for paranoia is just crazy in my book.

I just had to edit this post as I remembered the millions of people who die from lung cancer and respiratory diseases every day and yet you see no danger from inhaling smoke from cannabis as you have been seduced by the unproven unscientific non existent studies that cannabis smoke does not cause ANY respiratory disease. I never smoked cigs yet I have a terminal lung disease that I would bet was caused by smoking cannabis.

But that was probably caused by some random mold spore I inhaled by accident yeah right.
I need a break.

 

[Tennessee Tim]

Acidity of the ferment would be a key factor for sure. dry curing at the finish is another. I think the lack of a control catalyst/yeast culture or brine is were the paranoia comes from. All should be well, as evidenced by long term use by many people without reports of acute illnesses! a quick pasteurization may make it more acceptable to persons who are nervous due to possible problems with unwanted organisms.

 

[drift]

If your that worried maybe ferment with a UV light as a precaution, seen that it kills the spores. Yes I like my COBS!

 

[Tennessee Tim]

I would not use uv during ferment! It might effect badly the wild critters that make the fermented product successful!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Fermented stuff tends to freak people out in our age of pasteurization where everything is nuked into sterility. I mean, they’re totally weird mysterious processes. A lot of the time they don’t look much different than leaving your food to rot. In Thailand they make a lot of fish sauce. Fermented fish. Trust me, you know when you’re anywhere near a fish sauce village. You’d never believe anything edible could come out of that stench. Shrimp paste... In India when in doubt I’d eat curd (yoghurt) because It’s considered to be always safe. It’s sort of counterintuitive, but ferments are a great way of preserving stuff- that’s why they’re done. Having said all that I’m not even sure what sort of fermentation cobbing is- so this is just a general pro-fermentation rant lol.

 

[Tony Urban]

There are people getting sick from eating chicken fingers. They aren't cooking them long enough. Frozen breaded chicken fingers with the instructions on the box. It is to the point where they have to warn people with a label on the box "UNCOOKED".

Im not going to stop eating breaded chicken. I know how to cook it lol. I eat it all the time. Cobs I have made once.

I think the real danger is in people not following the process Tangwena laid out.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Would cobbed chicken fingers be ok though?

 

[Tony Urban]

Would cobbed chicken fingers be ok though?

Hmmm. Tempting to make one. Not so tempted to try it lol.

 

[Tony Urban]

Bringing us back on topic. I have been wandering to the other forum threads on this, some epic stuff by the way Tangwena, and think my buds were taken a day too far with the drying.

There was very little moisture in the bags after sweat. It took some work to compress the material into the cob for the sweat. Making me think it was too dry. The first cob I made was easy to compress, but I suspect it was too wet. I will get it one day lol

They have been sitting on my internet router for 5 days now.

View media item 1675288
There is some change though. I can smell the process working. I can see it has shrunk quite a bit. They are pliable but dense. I notice some slight discolouration in the parchment paper, as well as seeing the material through the paper, and it has darkened.

View media item 1675289

After reading more of the other threads, the value of eating the cobs is significant, and I would be negligent if I didn’t try it lol.

 

[SweetSue]

Would cobbed chicken fingers be ok though?

Hahaha! This one made me laugh out loud.

@tangwena, you’ve been at this a while. Surely you expected this conversation to come up eventually? lazyfish is trained in professional food production and storage techniques as part of his degree, so his concern comes from a space of love for his virtual neighbors and a desire to keep people safe.

Fact: cobs have been consumed for millennia, and I find no evidence of any reports of anyone getting sick from them.

If anyone - I mean anyone - finds such evidence please share it so we can reason through it.

I like what @Weaselcracker said about acidity. I have a whole bag of citric acid in with my belongings, and I have a big-ass Carnival drying from yesterday’s harvest that I intend to turn at least a small part of the expected pound of produce into many cobs. Cob storage beats the hell out of jars, doesn’t it?

Weaselcracker, do you think sprinkling with citric acid powder would assist the process, or at least lend an air of confidence to those feeling intimidated by microbe possibilities? I’ll be starting my Carnival cobbing tomorrow or Monday. These colas were the thickest I’ve grown. They may take a day longer to dry.

Carnival 6.1 colas

• SweetSue
• Apr 26, 2019

There were 14 of them this size.

Carnival 6.1 cola

• SweetSue
• Apr 26, 2019

Yeah....this size.

@kelticBlue , I have ample supplies of cobs and more on the way. I have no intention of turning away in fear from something that brings this much satisfaction and potential. Let’s make arrangements to get some of my cobs to you and we can sort out the testing costs too. We’re interested in molds and pesticides tests, not necessarily THC, so we may be able to cut costs.

@UrbanAchiever, I would anticipate something closer to a golden cure with what you posted. It sounds much like my Carnival buds that I fermented cob-like last harvest. As long as I can smell the change I’m assured there’s magic going on.

Our interest is both recreational and medical, making this conversation about food safety relevant. No one wants to be that ass who got a loved one sick through improper processing. So let’s be the community that overcomes this fear with a little science of our own.

With all the talented brains and life experience we have in this room alone I anticipate coming up with some well-defined ideas for overcoming the fear of sickness when playing with cobs. I’ll volunteer to be the first one to try the citric acid, if we think it’s worth the try. Then we can have that cob tested too.

I have no personal fear of making myself or anyone else sick. Taking precautions and being a responsible consumer sound like much more rational options than simply giving into fear.

@Tennessee Tim, interesting way to get that cob bit up to temp before tossing it in the oven. The thought of using the thermometer never occurred to me. I was also intrigued that it hit faster. This plays into my theory that decarbing first gets you higher faster and longer. Very interesting, and something I’ll have to replicate and experience myself.

Last, but not least before I head out to move into my new apartment, @Triumph trophy, good job buckaroo!

I’ll be back later guys.

I have a new home that’s a ten-minute walk to the local manicured beach. Moving in today. Life is sweet!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Weaselcracker, do you think sprinkling with citric acid powder would assist the process, or at least lend an air of confidence to those feeling intimidated by microbe possibilities?

Hmmmm- well yes if botulism concerns people, then making sure their cobs are acidic (4.6 ph or less) will kill any botulism and should totally end that concern. It’s possible that the cobs are already that acidic naturally. I will check when I get home in a few days and post it if no one else gets around to it first.

Congrats on the new home.