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The Basics Of Plant Lighting

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VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
Yes the distribution of the leds is hugely impt. im using a 360. it blasts photons but it is in a 18x12 case. im using it in my 4x2.5 space and its adequate but feeling the desire to add a 12"² heatsink on each end with 2cobs about 50w per cob @ 45% efficiency. im expecting the whole space to perform as well as the plant that is directly under the optic right now.

Many of the diy folks using this gear are easily over 1g/w with average veg and reasonable power usage.
 

SuperFunker

Active Member
SF, which emitters are you using?
VonDankenhoek... Presently, we are not quite ready to offer detailed specs of our grow lights. However in general, 1) we are building units that use 4 100 watt COB's that seem similar to your DIY lights; 2) we are building units that combine COB's with smaller integrated chips; 3) we are building a series of custom targeted spectrums; 4) and we have developed a particularly efficient deployment strategy.

Aside: Well done with your DIY system.

PLIP, SuperFunker.
 

SuperFunker

Active Member
My point is that everyone compares the source - the diodes/emitters vs the bulb. LEDs are a more efficient source. But in real life, plants are distributed over the entire space, while the LEDs (usually) aren't.

A 600 watt hps has an average of 700 PAR at 24 inches across a 4x4. One 350 watt LED panel will match that PAR within its focus, but that focus is a LOT smaller than 4x4. The LED manufacturers don't mention that. Four panels with 700 PAR and a 2x2 spread would be a fair comparison. One panel with higher PAR won't cover the full space, but will do great in the middle.

I'll be running a XML 350 in the center with a 175 watt Mars-Hydro in each corner. :3: That should take of the spread issue. :laugh2:
Graytail... Yes, I agree. Employing a well considered decentralized deployment strategy is a particularly effective and efficient method of using LED grow lights. Investing in powerful small units and then spreading them out will provide superior coverage than using a single high-powered central panel.

PLIP, SuperFunker.
 

VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
"VonDankenhoek.. Presently, we are not quite ready to offer detailed specs of our grow lights. However in general, 1) we are building units that use 4 100 watt COB's that seem similar to your DIY lights; 2) we are building units that combine COB's with smaller integrated chips; 3) we are building a series of custom targeted spectrums; 4) and we have developed a particularly efficient deployment strategy.

Aside: Well done with your DIY system.

PLIP, SuperFunker."

Exciting.

I know of a few latest tech, cob luminaire mfg's coming on line this year. I expect it will substantially raise the bar for the led makers marketing to cannabis growers.

By smaller integrated chips are you referring to far red stars? Im debating the merits of testing far red on my pontoons. I havent been convinced it is worth the effort? Do you have any science on cannabis, far red, 3-4k cobs?
 

SuperFunker

Active Member
VonDankenhoek...

Re "COB's with smaller integrated chips": The integrated chips are not far-red stars. The COB's we use already cover far-red. Now we are thinking the integrated chips may be unnecessary/redundant; regardless, this COB-LED matrix will have a new one-piece compound lens.

Re far-red science: To be honest, I haven't done much research lately. But as is typically known, the primary reason to incorporate far-red (about 730nm) is to induce the Emerson Effect. A specific Canna-Comparison would be interesting (a grow with far-red and another without far-red). If you find research that explores this comparison, I would love to read it.

Re far-red benefit: If you are missing far-red, I would considering adding it. You may want to DIY far-red. Alternatively, there is series of powerful PAR30 spots that will soon be entering the market. These new spots are double the power of the spots found at HydroFarm. You could supplement your main light by surrounding it with 4 spots that emit far-red. Suggest assigning 5 to 10% of the total number of LED's in any given light to far-red. Or, assign 5 to 10% of the total power consumption to far-red.

Re 3000 to 4000k COB's: Are you seeking technical data or are you wondering what temperature you should use?

Re technical/component research: Most of the research that I do revolves around the practical possibilities, utility and application of finished systems. If you are seeking engineering details, suggest contacting Hosebomber. Perhaps an in-mail?

PLIP, SuperFunker.
 

VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
Agree, grow journals comparing the use of far reds would be enlightening. For now, im going with white cobs alone. Ive got huge heat sinks with plenty of space for evolving if the evidence is compelling.

Regarding temp im using 4k along with 4 cxb 3590 (cb)bin @ 3k. I have high hopes but wont be flowering anything until autumn, hot here. This lamp is designed for flower only.
 

SuperFunker

Active Member
VonDankenhoek...

Re the Emerson Effect: It is a well proven lighting strategy that enhances photosynthesis. Unless there is some new research to the contrary, I do not think it is discriminating; that is, all plants should derive a benefit from far-red.

PLIP, SuperFunker.
 

VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
the Bro who originated Pacific Light Concepts has a production panel hitting ~2.4µmols/J. He did extensive testing. There are no far reds on his panel. I think he is relying on the cree cobs to supply spectra values enabling the emerson effect. I was pretty much following his lead and relying on the cobs.

You can find the spectral graph within the data sheet here.

Interested in your thoughts on that approach.

Thanks for sharing.
 

SuperFunker

Active Member
saw the graphs, kool... as i mentioned before, the COB's we use cover far-red... the CXB3590 series covers far-red... in particular, i like the 3000 K 90 CRI and 3000 K, 80 CRI... either would make a decent full spectrum grow light...

good info, thanks...

PLIP, SuperFunker.
 

SuperFunker

Active Member
saw the graphs, kool... as i mentioned before, the COB's we use cover far-red... the CXB3590 series covers far-red... in particular, i like the 3000 K 90 CRI and 3000 K, 80 CRI... either would make a decent full spectrum grow light...

good info, thanks...

PLIP, SuperFunker.
and, those COB's would be great for anthocyanin production...
:D
 

GuttaCannabis

Well-Known Member
This is growing under 437watts of cfl's :)
 

VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
Ive been making a little progress on my diy build. Grabbed 2drivers to run those 4 cxb cobs.
Also discovered that the cd bin of cxb3590s 3500k is 56% efficient at .700mA 72v.

To give that performance figure some context consider that a brand new, best in class, HPS is about 40% efficient. Then consider that those bulbs emit their light nearly 360° so a huge hunk of it is diluted or wasted. The leds that are advertised and endorsed here on 420 dont, as far as i know, even have data sheets spelling out efficiency. Instead they have "special spectrums" and use unnamed gear. The best of these is likely less than 30% efficient and probably more like mid 20%.

The reasons this is important are many. When you buy a 1200 watt worlds most powerful led your getting an 800 watt heater and maybe a 400 watt light. Also when running blurple lights they hit blue and red hard and that seems to indicate good par but it is misleading because impt lower energy photons are ignored. Those other spectra promote complexity of terpenes and i believe better weed.

There are new lights coming out right now using bridgelux and cree chips that offer 40-50% par vs dissipated watts. You wont likely see any comparison grows here because you can't journal a grow featuring a light unless it came from a paid advertiser. In other words ignorance is good for biz.
 

HydroDyna

New Member
There's a Spanish retailer that sells growlight fixtures with Cree cobs in them for rather cheap, not as cheap as DIY but it comes close.
200 true watts of CXA 3070 AB bin for 309 euro. (I can PM or if it isn't against the rules just directly link the site)
MarsHydro price, for Cree quality.
 

VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
Progress report.

Cob holders mounted, power ready to go! Just waiting on the cobs. I paid for 5 cxb 3590, 3500k 72v (top bin, cd) this week. Im gonna polish up the heat sink until they arrive. I used Wago connectors. The little orange ones are a breeze but the wago winsta's had me outwitted for a while.

Pretty sure I'm safe and tight now. I'm using just 4 of the cobs, min order was 5. I'm going to power them at about 50 watts (.7mA) at that current they are better than 56% efficient! The final product will consist of 2 4 2 series where first pair dissipate 100 watts the next 4 dissipate about 340 watts and the last pair another 100 watts. I'm estimating ~245 par watts from this fixture when fully powered.

 

Graytail

Plant of the Year: 2014 - Plant of the Month: Dec 2014 - Nug of the Month: Feb 2015, Mar & Aug 2016, Dec 2017, Aug 2018, Jan 2019 - Nug of the Year: 2017 - Photo of the Month: June 2018
Thanks a ton, Von!

These white COB DIYs are very interesting. As singles at 50 watts a pop, they'd make great fill lamps - greater efficiency and broad spectrum in one lamp. Can you run long leads from the driver? I understand some users put the drivers outside the space for less heat.
 

VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
Hey GT,

Ya pretty sure long leads are not a prob. I think when the length is longer, heavier gauge (eg14) is used to maintain current/voltage.They will be very short in this case. Also the drivers themselves are above 90% efficient so not really all that hot. You can power these up to about 140w but the best efficiency is obtained under lower power.

The veros are better bet when you wanna push the cobs harder. Vero 29 @ 2.1mA are about 80w @ 40% efficiency. As you know the majority of led vendors rely on magic spectrums rather than disclose the efficiency and brand of the diodes used.
 

Graytail

Plant of the Year: 2014 - Plant of the Month: Dec 2014 - Nug of the Month: Feb 2015, Mar & Aug 2016, Dec 2017, Aug 2018, Jan 2019 - Nug of the Year: 2017 - Photo of the Month: June 2018
I've been doing some research and the cost still gives me pause. Even with a DIY, it runs $1.50+ per watt.

I'd like to run four more lights in my room along the perimeter at 50-75 watts apiece and I'd like them to be white since I have so much blurple in there already. And I have those 10 watt Cree whites in the XML 350. :3: So some of the single CXB builds I've seen are pretty interesting - one COB with a beefy chunk of heatsink and a nice fan - pretty neat stuff. :slide:
 

VonDankenhoek

On Vacation
bro the 1.50 per watt is a deal since the $$ are going towards light and not heat. The vero 29 are about 25$ each and 40% efficient at nominal current. That efficiency is likely double the rebranded stuff hawked on 420.

Many of the experienced cob growers get 1g/w or better. Less electricity, less heat, less phony marketing and sheisters and mo better sweet chiba.
 
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