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The Basics Of Plant Lighting

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RLK3

New Member
Thanks for explaining the Emerson effect. I'm going for a blend with 6500K, 5000K and 2700K CFLs and a couple of 4Watt LED floods with both red and blue total use is 250 watts over 6 plants in a 3x5' tent. The space is completely surrounded by Mylar and foil. Also, i'm using Gas Lantern Routine. At night its off for 4 hours, on for one, off for 4 and on for 15 all day. As it goes i'll diminish the day phase and eliminate the midnight wake-up. I'll lengthen the night by 30 min. every week till i'm at 12/12 or ready to harvest.
 

Zimpon

New Member
I have been thinking and searching and this is what i come up with.

The strange thing is that very few people describe that kind of LEDs they are using when they are building a own setup.

I want to have a broad spectrum and in total of 132pcs of 3W and 5W LEDs. And this is for growing all kinds of veggies. And im leaning to have dimmers to adjust the light too grow different kind of veggies. All LEDs will have lenses on them. Btw this is for growing in this projectBuilding a LED Vertical Light for a homemade rotating garden

Tell me what you think, to much of everything or too little of XX?

2pcs - UV 385 nm to 390 nm LZ1-10UA00-U4 LedEngin | Mouser

10pcs - UV 410-420nm Violet UV 3W LED - Greenthumb LED

6pcs - 447.5nm Philips Rebel ES Royal Blue LED 440-460nm

8pcs - 450nm CREE XT-E Royal Blue 5W LED - Greenthumb LED

6pcs - 480nm CREE XP-E Blue 3W LED

3pcs - 490-520nm Philips Rebel Cyan 3W LED

3pcs - 520-535nm CREE XP-E Green 3W LED - Rapid LED

25pcs - 620-630nm CREE XP-E Red LED - Greenthumb LED

60pcs - 660nm Philips Rebel ES 660nm Deep Red LED - Greenthumb LED

6pcs - IR A 730-740nm LZ1-10R300 LedEngin | Mouser

3pcs - 4500-10000K Philips Rebel ES Cool White LED - Rapid LED

p.s. Good luck Hosebomber to get your own LED panel manufactured.
 

Hosebomber

New Member
You've obviously done your research. There are actually very few changes I personally would make to your choices. The biggest thing I think I would change is removing the green and cyan LEDs and replace those with more warm and cool whites (mostly warm). It will give you a smoother transition between spectra and cover a few more wavelengths. The Cree royal blues are actually 455nm (typ) but they still perform really well. I would also balance out the 630 and 660's a little more, around 50/35 or so and reduce the overall number of blues slightly (changing them to warm whites). The white LEDs are just blues with a phosphor coating to produce a wider spectral output. So you will still get some blue out of it as well as accessory pigment wavelengths. I'm not sure how large your vertical garden is but 1 watt LEDs may be a viable option for you as well to save money of parts and power usage. If your radius is under 3 foot, that might be something to consider. Good luck and please do a grow journal when ya get all the kinks worked out, it looks like a very interesting project.
 

Zimpon

New Member
Thanx Hosebomber, it was this respond I was hoping for.

I will make the changes you suggested, it would probably be wise to use more white.

Ye maybe 1w LEDs should work in a rotating garden, but the reason i start looking for 3w is that hydrogrow change their panel for rotating garden from 1W to 3W. mine is as big as they usually is made with a length from lamp to soil is 1,3 fot. And i know it is pretty near the plants, but om the other hand is the growing area is 2,2squaremeter at the soil and then decrasing as the plants grow..

So I dont know, maybe 1W is better...?
 

Hosebomber

New Member
At less than 1 and a half feet to the soil, one watt LEDs should work fine. With the amount of energy you are saving from 3 watt to 1 watt diodes, I would add about 25% of that savings into extra diodes. If you feel penetration is becoming an issue, you could always add some 90 degree lenses and 60 degree lenses to the very end ones. The key in laying out your diodes is to make sure the light blends well across the whole of the panel/octagon/whatever shape your design uses. The better your spectral blend the better your results will be. I actually believe that your rotation design will improve the growth rates due to the movement over the different spectra. I can't wait to see the results and good luck.
 

mcloadie

Member of the Month: Mar 2013
Induction lighting falls under the category of tube florescent lighting in almost every form. They are more energy efficient at around 20-25%, but they are still not as efficient as HPS or LED lighting. Spectrum wise, they are nearly identical to cfl and tubes. There is a induction company adding what they call "pontoons" of 660 and 730nm red LEDs to increase their performance in the flowering stage. I do not believe the test results are complete yet but I may be mistaken on that. iGrow says that they have a different blend of phosphors used in their light but from what I have seen they have very little red in their light at all and are simply making bold claims (sometimes known as exaggerations of the truth) that their light is better than anything out there. I personally do not own their product and would not say that they are lying.... but the grow test performed by others suggest that their product is not all that they claim.
Feel free to have a look at my journal, so far the results are impressive as stated by igrow, along with some comparisons I have seen personally with other comparable grows. Just my opinion, I know very little about lights and see them from the perspective of yield and potency. I am NOT a spokesman for igrow, I spoke with the owner before making my decision to purchase this light. He sounded sincere and he believes in his product. I have seen ALOT of hps systems, they are inexpensive initially and that is the main draw from the people I KNOW who use them. I also offered the owner a chance to showcase his product in a modern grow facility, which he never responded. How can you tell that the people showcasing these efdls are his employees? Just wondering. And who are the OTHERS who performed the independant testing?
 

Hosebomber

New Member
Thanks for explaining the Emerson effect. I'm going for a blend with 6500K, 5000K and 2700K CFLs and a couple of 4Watt LED floods with both red and blue total use is 250 watts over 6 plants in a 3x5' tent. The space is completely surrounded by Mylar and foil. Also, i'm using Gas Lantern Routine. At night its off for 4 hours, on for one, off for 4 and on for 15 all day. As it goes i'll diminish the day phase and eliminate the midnight wake-up. I'll lengthen the night by 30 min. every week till i'm at 12/12 or ready to harvest.
That's less than 17 watts per square foot. If you are not using the whole area you might get away with that amount of light for veg, but you will have a greatly diminished flowering ability.
 

Hosebomber

New Member
The independent testing was done on several other forums. They are rather easy to find with a google search. As for knowing that article was written by a paid blogger... well he told me.

The induction lights work great for non-flowering veg growth and okay for flowering, but their 420 watt light does not come anywhere close to the growth or flowering of a 1000 watt system as they claim. I cannot recall the name of the other induction company atm, but they used to be partners with or work for iGrow and they had shade some dirty trade secrets around. That company in now using 660nm red leds and supplemental lighting to their induction to assist in flowering. I have now seen 3 grows with the "pontoons" and the results are easily distinguishable. The red assisted plants grow fuller thicker larger colas and nearly double the mass of the non assisted induction lights. (They are using a very small amount of red LEDs too.)
 

mcloadie

Member of the Month: Mar 2013
The independent testing was done on several other forums. They are rather easy to find with a google search. As for knowing that article was written by a paid blogger... well he told me.

The induction lights work great for non-flowering veg growth and okay for flowering, but their 420 watt light does not come anywhere close to the growth or flowering of a 1000 watt system as they claim. I cannot recall the name of the other induction company atm, but they used to be partners with or work for iGrow and they had shade some dirty trade secrets around. That company in now using 660nm red leds and supplemental lighting to their induction to assist in flowering. I have now seen 3 grows with the "pontoons" and the results are easily distinguishable. The red assisted plants grow fuller thicker larger colas and nearly double the mass of the non assisted induction lights. (They are using a very small amount of red LEDs too.)
Hmmm.................what are dirty trade secrets? Not knowing alot of particulars about lighting gives me a distinct advantage in assessing lights, all I can see is what they actually do....I'll know the full truth when the scale comes out at the end....peace! I wonder how one could sell a product at roughly 8 times the price of an equivelant product..........???????? Its like the difference between a mossberg and a sako!
 

Hosebomber

New Member
The secrets were basically, the name of their Chinese supplier/manufacturer and the phosphor blend they use. Price mark-up tends to have a direct correlation to funds spent in marketing/hype of a product and company overhead cost. If they are required to purchase 10,000 units to get a bulk rate discount and they sell 1000 a month, then they have to pay for a warehouse for the next 10 months to hold their inventory, pay their bills, and pay those whom are doing the selling, etc. Then throw in all the taxes and regulatory fees, insurance, and other expences and you quickly see that re-sellers have to have a huge mark-up to have any profit.

If they designed a custom fixture or part for their light, that can easily cost upwards of $30,000 for a single mold to be made and then another $20-$50,000 to make a run for that mold. These are a few of the issues I've been trying to sort out over the past few months while maintaining a day job.
 

Hosebomber

New Member
The chance of them being hermie is actually linked to the genetics of the plant rather than anything that light can do. With that being said, light can be the stress factor that exposes that genetic defect. So a few questions for you... What strain are you growing and where are the genetics from? How long was the room light on after the plant lights went out? How far from the plants, and what wattage/type of light is the room lighting? How far along are they in the flowering cycle?
 

mcloadie

Member of the Month: Mar 2013
The chance of them being hermie is actually linked to the genetics of the plant rather than anything that light can do. With that being said, light can be the stress factor that exposes that genetic defect. So a few questions for you... What strain are you growing and where are the genetics from? How long was the room light on after the plant lights went out? How far from the plants, and what wattage/type of light is the room lighting? How far along are they in the flowering cycle?
80/20 sativa dom....south america.....afghanistan, light was on for the entire dark cycle of 12 hrs, 60 watt incandescent, 8' from plants....above and 4' to the side....3 weeks in flower. Thanks hose. I call the strain mexikush.
 

Hosebomber

New Member
The best part is that it was an incandescent bulb. They put out nearly no visible light. Chances are you should be fine. It wouldn't hurt to leave the lights off for the following 12 hours (The requirement is 12 hours of darkness not 12 hours of light) but you should be fine either way unless the strain is very genetically weak.
 

mcloadie

Member of the Month: Mar 2013
The best part is that it was an incandescent bulb. They put out nearly no visible light. Chances are you should be fine. It wouldn't hurt to leave the lights off for the following 12 hours (The requirement is 12 hours of darkness not 12 hours of light) but you should be fine either way unless the strain is very genetically weak.
Thanks hose, I have flashed a previous grow and it made em herm, but hopefully they don't this time....I have 16 in there!
 

mcloadie

Member of the Month: Mar 2013
Mcloadie, pardon my interruption. I am curious if any of the mexikush went hermi yet? I went through something similar to this and I had 2 out of 12 go hermi.
Nope they all good....mcloadies second grow journal.....come look, my link thingy is givin me issues and I can't link it! What kinda genetics did the hermies come from? Happy valley? I'm from yuba city before I moved south, I think I built some houses there!
 
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