The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

[Rider509]

I'm looking at moving beyond the MH/HPS combo for growing. Not sold on the mostly uber expensive and rapidly evolving LED market. At least not until prices come down.

The HPS has been the go-to light for flowering our plants for a very long time. But what's been the driving factor in making it the defacto standard? Low initial cost of purchase? Availability? The fact that it produces killer yields?

After looking at the spectrum of light put out by other commonly available lights I'm wondering why the ceramic metal halide (CMH) lights aren't more popular for flowering. It looks like it more closely matches the McCree curve than HPS. That should be a better thing right?

Without diving into the high dollar world of LEDs, doesn't the CMH make better sense than HPS for flowering?

Just curious about what the more knowledgeable among us think.

 

[Rider509]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

Echo... echo... echo...

Never mind. I figured it out.

 

[Rider509]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

Spitz! I'm glad to see that someone appreciates my humor. A post on fruit flies may run 50+ pages but pose a more technical question and... nothing. I just have to remind myself that I'm dealing with stoners. LOL.
Like you, I'm just a grower. I don't smoke any more, and I've never even grown a hangnail, so everything I'm doing is purely for the experimentation and learning process. I'm happy with the results I'm getting both with soil and the RDWC, but truly, even if it completely flopped on me I'd be OK with it because I would have enjoyed the process of assimilating information and putting it to use, and then dissecting where it went wrong. I could care less about the end product but would be happy for it to be a success. I don't even know what I'm going to do with it! For me it's more about the joy of learning, experimenting, and just the sheer fun of it all. That's why I have both soil and RDWC going, and why I topped and scrogged and defoliated, and started both auto and photo clones. I don't need the weed. It's all for the joy of learning.

 

[albienieves]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

LMAO! The reason people aren't commenting is because they don't know wtf you're talking about. Atleast, this is true with most stoners. Most wannabe growers think that as long as they get some nutes and a light, they're good. Real growers know other wise. We need different world's to mesh nicely together, and then even then it's all strain dependant. Now when talking about grow light's. I don't get the BS behind leds. The whole spend more money now, save later on your bill theme is rather nonsensical to me. And the proof is in the pudding, hands down. Leds can not and will not ever measure up to HPS. So until somebody comes out with a HPS led diode, HPS will always be king in my eye's. Now, in terms of CHM? Now thats a different story. Many companies have totally failed with producing a viable bulb. That may be why people haven't flocked over that way. In my opinion, Philipp's makes a decent bulb. Shit, they might be the only ones who've made the bulb right! Eye Hortilux is another company that recently made a CMH hybrid of sorts. It's a CHM HPS. It was supposed to be released last August but it never happened.

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[Donald McGonagle]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

What's the difference in a wannabe grower and real grower? Elevated egos don't get extra credit points on this site. Just because you're educated on something doesn't mean you've got to chime in. This guy answered his own question. CMH emits more red spectrum lighting for flowering. They are "better". This doesn't mean they're the best for any one grower, especially all the wannabes you talk of. LED's are where my plants spend most of their lives even though I also use CFL during seedling stage and CMH during flowering. If we are dumbfounded as to why we don't all use the best available.... we all don't buy the best clothes, best cars, best dogs or best hookers (ask Eddie Murphy). My $3k champion Cane Corso Mastiff may not be the best dog for you and your $55k truck may not be the best for me. Ya dig?

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[albienieves]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

Well if you're smart enough to see that his statement was rhetorical, then you should be able to see where I differentiated the 2 in my comment. My statement wasn't ego driven. It was blatantly factual. It wasn't till you and your ego got offended that you had too chime in...

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[mido334452]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

What's the difference in a wannabe grower and real grower? Elevated egos don't get extra credit points on this site. Just because you're educated on something doesn't mean you've got to chime in. This guy answered his own question. CMH emits more red spectrum lighting for flowering. They are "better". This doesn't mean they're the best for any one grower, especially all the wannabes you talk of. LED's are where my plants spend most of their lives even though I also use CFL during seedling stage and CMH during flowering. If we are dumbfounded as to why we don't all use the best available.... we all don't buy the best clothes, best cars, best dogs or best hookers (ask Eddie Murphy). My $3k champion Cane Corso Mastiff may not be the best dog for you and your $55k truck may not be the best for me. Ya dig?

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I lean in respect for u
Hands down .

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[Torst]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

I keep looking at LED's and could never justify the cost vs 600w/1000w HID setups... Electricity here is around $0.15 or cheaper, so like $2.70 per 1000w per day on 18/6, even a little less when 12/12.

MH/HPS all the way for me, until costs are reasonable for the units themselves! A MARS PRO CREE™ 256 would cost me over $1,225 shipped. Even a DE 1000w setup is way cheaper at around $400 and we all know HPS works. Just my take on it right now.

Edit: My setups also do not have heat issues, so that would be another factor....

 

[Donald McGonagle]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

I keep looking at LED's and could never justify the cost vs 600w/1000w HID setups... Electricity here is around $0.15 or cheaper, so like $2.70 per 1000w per day on 18/6, even a little less when 12/12.

MH/HPS all the way for me, until costs are reasonable for the units themselves! A MARS PRO CREE 256 would cost me over $1,225 shipped. Even a DE 1000w setup is way cheaper at around $400 and we all know HPS works. Just my take on it right now.

Edit: My setups also do not have heat issues, so that would be another factor....

I just found a Mars Pro Cree comparable to 600W HID/MH/HPS for 501.99. Obviously you can buy them cheaper or more expensive, but this falls in line with traditional lights for initial cost. Power consumption is cut in half. $81.00/1000W/month vs $40.00/1000W/month.

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[Torst]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

Outside of the states though? I would be all over a decently priced 1000w comparable LED way up north!

 

[Donald McGonagle]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

Outside of the states though? I would be all over a decently priced 1000w comparable LED way up north!

I'm in a bad habit of forgetting this is global . ya'll gotta work on your pricing as much as we need to work on legalization!

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[Torst]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

Yeah, in Canada but for some reason LED's are PRICEY here. OR we are stubborn HID growers, not sure!

 

[Rider509]

re: The McCree curve & HPS vs CMH for flowering - Help!

Yeah, in Canada but for some reason LED's are PRICEY here. OR we are stubborn HID growers, not sure!

Torst! Think globally! I just bought 8 Cree 3500K 3590s complete with COB holders, reflector holders, Angelina reflectors, and massive 140mm heatsinks for about US$650, shipped. I plan on using them as side fill for my HPS.

 

[Torst]

Funny you mention that, I have been considering LED as side supplements with MH/HPS. Also considering vertical MH/HPS, I have seen amazing vertical grows!

 

[Rider509]

What's the difference in a wannabe grower and real grower?

It's really easy to tell. You look at their grow journal!

A real grower, whether experienced or inexperienced, has done their research, planned their grow, and reaches out to this community when they need a second opinion. Or maybe to share knowledge or to discuss the merits of different techniques or tools.

A wannabe grower jumps in with little or no clue and ends up with plants that have 12" stretch between nodes and popcorn colas.

It's not ego! It's a fact, and nobody is looking to gain "points" here by coddling the unprepared. We do it out of a passion for the plant, or in my case, a passion for the process.

 

[Torst]

It's really easy to tell. You look at their grow journal!

A real grower, whether experienced or inexperienced, has done their research, planned their grow, and reaches out to this community when they need a second opinion. Or maybe to share knowledge or to discuss the merits of different techniques or tools.

A wannabe grower jumps in with little or no clue and ends up with plants that have 12" stretch between nodes and popcorn colas.

It's not ego! It's a fact, and nobody is looking to gain "points" here by coddling the unprepared. We do it out of a passion for the plant, or in my case, a passion for the process.

I am no expert like some, but you can tell the "new guys". Still try and help! (I proabaly am the "new guy", sorry)

 

[Rider509]

This is my hybrid spectrum as seen with PPFD curve against the McCree curve.

 

[Rider509]

I'm a new guy too, Torst! I jump in and help wherever I feel qualified, and sit back and learn when I'm unsure. From what I've seen, that's what makes this forum so wildly successful. So many of us noobies are in here helping the other noobies by sharing recently gleaned knowledge on topics that make some of the old-timers of the forum cringe and want to pull their hair out.

 

[Torst]

Right on! So many ways to grow this plant, kinda crazy!

 

[Donald McGonagle]

It's really easy to tell. You look at their grow journal!

A real grower, whether experienced or inexperienced, has done their research, planned their grow, and reaches out to this community when they need a second opinion. Or maybe to share knowledge or to discuss the merits of different techniques or tools.

A wannabe grower jumps in with little or no clue and ends up with plants that have 12" stretch between nodes and popcorn colas.

It's not ego! It's a fact, and nobody is looking to gain "points" here by coddling the unprepared. We do it out of a passion for the plant, or in my case, a passion for the process.

My post was in reply to that albei (sp?) fellow who claims you had zero replies because nobody knew wtf you were talking about (paraphrased). Being condescending is a choice, just like my choosing to not ignore it. You can separate "real" from "wannabe" all you want but it's the beginner growers who turn in to expert growers (not the other way around). This whole idea that there are rules to follow (like keeping a grow journal or certain lights you must have) is all secondary to just enjoying the smoke or enjoying the grow. One can always try for genetic potential, that doesn't mean we ALL are trying for it. My drag car is faster than your stock grocery getter, but what's that really matter if we both accomplish our goal? It's subjective at this point. My long winded point is why not show love and help each other attain our PERSONAL goals rather than pushing some false pretense that you're a "real" grower because you feel as if knowing slightly more about growing than someone else? None of this matters and shouldn't even have to be said, but come on... reading a couple books or online articles doesn't make anyone an expert.

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