The Quadsquad Thread: A Community For Quadlining

[Hafta]

Thanks for clarifying that. I thought you had just supported the outside edges with the string to keep the colas from spreading out too much in your cabinet, but your explanation makes more sense. Are you just tying it off to the container or something else?

Azi,
I was uploading some photos from the camera and ran across this photo I took on day 22. It shows very good examples of the strengthening effects of CST.
The multiple bends and the arc of the branch
The twisting of the branch
How rapidly the secondary shoots grow straight up (I rescued the one trapped by the weights)

These weights are still on the plant. Each chunk of lead weighs 10 grams. A couple of branches have more than two ounces on them.

The photo below is an example of a couple of weights that may be moved or removed as the bud develops.
Taken today, Day 43

 

[Azimuth]

I like your method. I end up using both weights and ties as necessary, though the ties are few and only used for a directional adjustment. I like not have string running every which way and agree with you that weights swaying on the branches helps them strengthen.

 

[scottreid1966]

Azi,
I was uploading some photos from the camera and ran across this photo I took on day 22. It shows very good examples of the strengthening effects of CST.
The multiple bends and the arc of the branch
The twisting of the branch
How rapidly the secondary shoots grow straight up (I rescued the one trapped by the weights)

These weights are still on the plant. Each chunk of lead weighs 10 grams. A couple of branches have more than two ounces on them.

The photo below is an example of a couple of weights that may be moved or removed as the bud develops.
Taken today, Day 43

Been doing the same, Hafta. With pipe cleaners and nuts. The bending IS important. My 2 that are flowering downstairs are rubbing the walls. I did buy some adjustable clips for my present veg. I read that they were worth the extra pesos and looking forward to their arrival.
When you say day 43.... I sat wow.
I need to check out the autos. I have a great photo strain but it takes 10-12 weeks in flower. After seeing your grow, I will weigh my indoor ladies and try some auto next grow. My 6 months versus your 2? I am very curious about your yield on that beauty of a quad, bro.

Cheers!

 

[Hafta]

I like your method. I end up using both weights and ties as necessary, though the ties are few and only used for a directional adjustment. I like not have string running every which way and agree with you that weights swaying on the branches helps them strengthen.

I don't like string either. This trellis has 6" squares so it is easy to clip at harvest.

 

[Hafta]

Been doing the same, Hafta. With pipe cleaners and nuts. The bending IS important. My 2 that are flowering downstairs are rubbing the walls. I did buy some adjustable clips for my present veg. I read that they were worth the extra pesos and looking forward to their arrival.
When you say day 43.... I sat wow.
I need to check out the autos. I have a great photo strain but it takes 10-12 weeks in flower. After seeing your grow, I will weigh my indoor ladies and try some auto next grow. My 6 months versus your 2? I am very curious about your yield on that beauty of a quad, bro.

Cheers!

Scott,
This isn't a quad, as defined. This plant was topped after 3+ nodes and thrown into CST. Everything else is pretty similar.

 

[CBDMed]

Azi,
I was uploading some photos from the camera and ran across this photo I took on day 22. It shows very good examples of the strengthening effects of CST.
The multiple bends and the arc of the branch
The twisting of the branch
How rapidly the secondary shoots grow straight up (I rescued the one trapped by the weights)

These weights are still on the plant. Each chunk of lead weighs 10 grams. A couple of branches have more than two ounces on them.

The photo below is an example of a couple of weights that may be moved or removed as the bud develops.
Taken today, Day 43

Hey @Hafta ,
Sorry, I have not had time to read your thread!
So, I take it I should buy a bunch of different weights and hooks?
Or heavy nuts and pipe cleaners?
What sizes should a noob look for?

 

[Azimuth]

I don't like string either. This trellis has 6" squares so it is easy to clip at harvest.

I try to only use the string to position branches where I want them to fill in holes and such and then remove them once the wood hardens up. For that I use small sections of chain to hook around the limb (or stem), a bit of twine tied to it and a binder clip that I attach to the pot rim for infinite adjustment options.

 

[Hafta]

Hey @Hafta ,
Sorry, I have not had time to read your thread!
So, I take it I should buy a bunch of different weights and hooks?
Or heavy nuts and pipe cleaners?
What sizes should a noob look for?

I just bought the packs of 10 gram weights on line. The torpedo shaped ones hang the best. I bent paperclips to hang from and put one, two, or three weights on the clip. It is easier to hang a triple than hang three singles.

 

[Hafta]

I try to only use the string to position branches where I want them to fill in holes and such and then remove them once the wood hardens up. For that I use small sections of chain to hook around the limb (or stem), a bit of twine tied to it and a binder clip that I attach to the pot rim for infinite adjustment options.

I like it. I'd love to see some photos if/when you can.

 

[CBDMed]

I just bought the packs of 10 gram weights on line. The torpedo shaped ones hang the best. I bent paperclips to hang from and put one, two, or three weights on the clip. It is easier to hang a triple than hang three singles.

Ok, thanks!
About how many weights do you end up using per plant (photo, auto) by the time you are all done?

Oh, and just to double-check, if wet-dry is not a thing in this grow model, are you up-potting, or planting direct?
Thanks.

 

[Hafta]

Ok, thanks!
About how many weights do you end up using per plant (photo, auto) by the time you are all done?

Oh, and just to double-check, if wet-dry is not a thing in this grow model, are you up-potting, or planting direct?
Thanks.

I currently use 75 - 80 weights regardless of photo vs. auto. I am limited in space but could probably use another 20.
I grow in a 2' x 3' cabinet.
I am growing sterile hydro and the plant is directly in a 20 gallon reservoir filled to17 gallons.

 

[Azimuth]

I just bought the packs of 10 gram weights on line. The torpedo shaped ones hang the best. I bent paperclips to hang from and put one, two, or three weights on the clip. It is easier to hang a triple than hang three singles.

I got three different weights, 1/8 ounce, 3/8 ounce and 3/4 ounce (I wanted a full ounce to keep the progression but had to settle). The 1/8 is like a 3.5 gram weight, the 3/8 like Hafta's 10g and the 3/4 is about 20 grams.

I especially like the smaller ones for the branch tips because I can weight them pretty close to the ends without the branches bending all the way down and cause the weight to fall off and use the larger ones for the stronger, thicker branches. But mine are pretty small plants so larger plants may present different outcomes. I'll often use a larger one closer to the trunk and another lighter one or two further out and find that I move them as the plant grows. This technique is a bit fiddly for me but I enjoy putzing around with the plants so it gives me something to do and makes me feel like I accomplished something.

I find that with quading the occasional string tie off helps put the branches where I want them since everything is on a single flat plane while you're building it out and Hafta's technique of layering one branch against another to move it doesn't really come into play.

As the structure is building and the new growth nodes emerge in an alternating spiral around the stem, I rub off any buds starting straight up or down since I'll be thinning the nodes later anyway, but I usually keep the associated fan leaf. The ones pointing out to the side get their own weights, at least the ones I keep as I try to keep good spacing along that axis as well. I'm trying to keep a balance between pot size and buds produced.

 

[Azimuth]

Oh, and just to double-check, if wet-dry is not a thing in this grow model, are you up-potting, or planting direct?
Thanks.

Lol. I think you're getting three threads mixed up. This is the quadlining thread which talks about plant structure and training for limb spread.

Hafta's thread is about using weights and leaf plucking to provide an ongoing light stress to the plants to encourage root development, and neither have anything to do with watering or eliminating wet/dry cycles. That one can be found in Buds Buddy's thread where he is using self-watering containers.

I think Hafta's current grow is hydro if I'm not mistaken.

 

[CBDMed]

I currently use 75 - 80 weights regardless of photo vs. auto. I am limited in space but could probably use another 20.
I grow in a 2' x 3' cabinet.
I am growing sterile hydro and the plant is directly in a 20 gallon reservoir filled to17 gallons.

Ahh, ok. So, a lot of weights.
Sorry, I am on the run again right now, but I prayed, found two good deals on the Zone, and snagged them. So I will get them in a couple of weeks and can start experimenting then.
Thanks!

 

[CBDMed]

Lol. I think you're getting three threads mixed up. This is the quadlining thread which talks about plant structure and training for limb spread.

Hafta's thread is about using weights and leaf plucking to provide an ongoing light stress to the plants to encourage root development, and neither have anything to do with watering or eliminating wet/dry cycles. That one can be found in Buds Buddy's thread where he is using self-watering containers.

I think Hafta's current grow is hydro if I'm not mistaken.

Oy.... light stress... oy....
Yeah, that sounds like me! Wayyy too many projects going on, and right now I am way behind (starting the project that was due last night...)
Got to run! Sorry! I hope I get some time to read in a couple of days....
In the meantime I got 200 each 10g weights, and 80 each 5g ones. They should be here in 2-3 weeks, so I hope I can catch up on my reading before then!
(Thanks again, Azi!... got to run...)
Lol!

 

[ReservoirDog]

I have some very basic questions as I embark upon my first properly 'trained' canna grows. Straightforward, 1st principles, I promise.

Can we say that our training efforts are to accomplish two basic tasks, placement and strengthening?

If yes to both, and no other function exists, in the case of strengthening, are we generally agreed that a locked-in, static form is an inferior strength builder than a dynamic resistance-type, ie 'free' weights?

If that is true, then, if placement could also be approximately as well achieved with a free-type, non-static system, do our cherished greybeards here collected feel this would be preferential also? Even if all it offered was the KISS principle, in the case that similar, if not superior, placement was achieved?

Not saying I know how to accomplish that with free weights, by any means, my grow experience is in the deep past and was about whacking in as many plants as possible in as remote and, frankly, as hostile to human traffic, landscape as possible. Plants were then left to The Fates until harvest. My expertise really then was transportation, not growing weed. That we left in "the hands of the gods." ("To the Gods" clink.. clink)

Call it the Game of Thrones Method, if you like.

Thanks for the visit Hafta. Charming cabinet. Lovely.

Azimuth, we are grateful.

 

[Azimuth]

I wouldn't say the benefits are limited to placement and strengthening. Another is a level canopy and an equal spread of hormones, a lower canopy for those of us with height issues, a faster way to flip to flower than other training methods, etc.

@Hafta 's Constant Stress Training uses weights and constant leaf plucking. The weights make sense to me in that limb strength will be built in multiple planes as opposed a single point as it would be when using ties. He lays it out pretty well in his thread and it is another alternative to accomplish the quad structure.

I find I use mostly the weights but also the occasional (and temporary) tie. Once the limb firms a bit and becomes more set I take the tie off. In my most recent grow I had unequal leads after topping so I weighted only one side down to allow the other to become dominant and catch up to the first. Doing so pulled that one side way over so I tied the trunk to keep it upright during that process and removed it once the shorter side had caught up and I was able to weight that side more equally.

So, it doesn't have to be one method vs. another. Personally I prefer the weights as opposed to having strings or pipe cleaners or stakes all over the place in and on the pot. Makes watering and top dressing easier as I can easily lift the limbs to access the top of the soil.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Yes I read Haftas method and certainly was impressed with the canopy he shared.

I was trying to establish whether it would be a positive to work toward being able to use weights alone to accomplish training goals.

I wasn’t asking what the benefits were, simply whether resistance training and placement in 3D space were the only immediate actions taken in training, realizing that they had multiple impacts.

I guess I have thought of one that’s neither resistance training nor placement and that is stem breaking, a la’ @danishoes21.

 

[Hafta]

Yes I read Haftas method and certainly was impressed with the canopy he shared.

I was trying to establish whether it would be a positive to work toward being able to use weights alone to accomplish training goals.

I wasn’t asking what the benefits were, simply whether resistance training and placement in 3D space were the only immediate actions taken in training, realizing that they had multiple impacts.

I guess I have thought of one that’s neither resistance training nor placement and that is stem breaking, a la’ @danishoes21.

One of the main benefits of the CST method is that that is no recovery time needed (such as breaking branches). Removing leaves daily makes that type of "wound repair" normal. The plant simply generates a larger root system.

Re-routing branches by overlaying them or temporarily tying them down makes the canopy more uniform and increases bud density, regardless whether you are growing a ten foot diameter plant or one that is 24" square as below. The grow is .371 square meters.

The overall height can be variable but I'm looking for 10" - 12" colas.

The "Skirted CST" method also allows for smokable "larf" since the colas extend down to the "skirt". The "skirt" also provides un-interrupted power/nutrient supply after the defoliation of the tops following stretch.

There are a million ways to grow and every way is open to improvement.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Thank you for your time, Hafta, it is extremely useful to me and I'll be sure to pay it forward. Looking at your provided example plant, in profile view now, and in the final stages of flowering, there is more of a central peak than what I surmised from the previous pics.

I personally am loath to remove large leaf growth below skirt line as I think of them as both batteries and solar panels, but how long each service, collecting, storing then releasing energy, is needed by the plant. I do not know. When they're dropped I guess.

The major concern of course is moisture, but if your soil top or mulch or bucket is dry on top, my intuition that tells me in those cases a strong moving fan directed not solely on plant tops but into that skirt is necc. and effective for this issue. Seem reasonable, even correct?

My UltraViolet OG is stubby and bushy indica 80% and I'm interested to make your shape but this grow have only the Carhook spears to use.

Plants are in DIY SIPs and in close proximity to each other. Ignore the potted plants, that’s just the Mom Squad patrolling down here for a day.