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Throwing in the towel on DWC: bennies

StelioKontos

New Member
Check your temp gauge and make sure its not off.
It was in the back of my mind that maybe the thermometer was off but i'ts quite cold in the room. Just to be sure, and because you mentioned it, I got a cheap glass tube type thermometer to check and sure enough its the same reading as the digi thermometer I've been using.

I had a thought about temps. I have 2 submersible pumps one in each bin circulating them as one unit. The water temps are fine, low in fact, but I bet inside the pump warms up, possibly creating an environment that could foster bad organisms. Now that I'm running h2o2 all the time it kills it as soon as its starts and the rot hasn't returned since. So I decided to expand my search and try to find a better single bin. I originally wanted just one bin but couldn't find it in my area. I did find one that is suitable, so I'm thinking of starting over. Why bother to continue with these slow growing injured plants when I could start again with a better setup and run h2o2 all the time thus probably never getting root rot in the first place?

So I will probably do that and I could take clones off these current plants. Would the fact that they had root rot effect them after cloning? I don't see that it would, it seems like that would get rid of the whole rot issue and it wouldn't be too much of a delay, the plant are small and so much time ect. has been wasted already.

Let me know what you guys think, thanks.
 

broadleaf

Member
Not sure I would scrap the grow just yet unless they are autoflowers. If you have the ph at 5.8 -6.2, water temp 68f or lower, room temp 74-78f, aerated water, lights at the correct distance, your system should produce good weed. If you get the system corrected the plants will take off and grow. In my dwc system which is recirculating buckets and depending on the strain I get 1.5 - 2" growth a day in veg, some sativas will do 3".

What is the air temp of the room? If its below 72f then I suspect cold room and root rot caused them to be stunted. Check nighttime temps too. I run veg plants at 78-82f ambient temp and water temps at 68 until I switch to flower, then I lower them to 64f and 75-78f ambient.

Sounds like you have the root rot under control, if your get the environment under control your plants will love you for it.
 
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StelioKontos

New Member
The air temps do go low then at night, 65f, and then 75f when lights on. There's not much of a heater in this room and I have been turning it up cause temps are low. So good to know that's to blame as well for the slow growth, I'll turn it up.
 

spyro

Member
Like you, I started out my DWC experience with AN products. I even worked my way up to using the Grandmaster series. But the issue with those products for me was that I would most frequently have problems with nitrogen toxicity and calmag deficiency. I spoke to an AN rep on the phone one time about my issues, and he said that using calmag is not necessary with when you use AN 3 part base nutes. After a year of using AN and having those recurrent problems, I decided to switch to GH base nutrients and Cal Mag, and then of course Hydroguard. Since then, I now also use GH Floralicious Plus and Liquid Kool Bloom to supplement. Now, I live in the US, and I buy all my nutrients from eBay. The 3 part GH base nutrients aren't nearly as expensive as the AN 3 part, and after my first full grow of using them, I stopped using all AN products completely, with the exception of their pH down, which is super strong. My wallet has sure appreciated the switch, and my plants have never been happier and more problem-free. Now I order my Hydroguard by the gallon, and while it's still a bit pricey at $60 a gallon, it only requires 2ml per gallon so it lasts a long time, and, more importantly, you get roughly 3 to 4 times more Hydroguard than just a liter of Tarantula for about the same price. And if you're using Voodoo Juice along with Tarantula, it gets really expensive.

For almost 4 years now, I have used 5 gallon DWC buckets, which are always black and made from food grade plastic. I also insist on using 4 inch air stones and a big air pump, preferably ones that pump out 951 gph, and I have thankfully never had any issues with root rot. I studied up on it in case it ever happened, and I read that H2O2 is nothing more than a mere bandaid. It'll get rid of it for a few days at the most, but if you don't remove the affected roots from the plant, the root rot will just reoccur. DWC, in my opinion, is the best method in terms of yield since plants grow 3 times faster that way than in soil or coco. I recently harvested 3.2lb of SFV OG Kush from only 4 plants. That being said, I would at least try giving DWC another go before giving up on it. Add beneficial bacteria and PLENTY of air to a DARK reservoir, and your problems with root rot will be history.
 

spyro

Member
And, I feel like the temperature drop at night would not contribute to root rot unless the environment was already affected somehow. When my room isn't sealed (which has been the case lately since I can't seem to regulate the temperatures in my grow space unless the door is left open) my temps are the same as yours and mine don't seem to mind it one bit.
 

StelioKontos

New Member
Thanks for sharing your experience spyro,

The only reason I went with the more expensive AN PH perfect nutes is because I want to avoid the maintenance of adjusting the ph, Which sounds like its quite frequent with DWC especially near the end. So far the ph has been 'perfect' even at these low ppms and for well more than a week. I also add Z9 and this probably extends the time the ph is stable.

I had read about people having cal mag deficiencies with AN nutes and their solution was to use tap water cause those minerals are usually in tap water. If you RO filter your water you are removing the minerals so I am using tap water with the chlorine evaporated and why not add some cal mag if necessary? I would be willing to bet using other additives wouldn't wreck the ph. So next time around I'm probably going to try using just the base AN PH Perfect nutes and other, cheaper additives. Worst case, you would have to balance the ph manually.

To deal with the nitrogen toxicity, did you dial down the ppm? Or was it happening anyway at moderate levels?

I read that H2O2 is nothing more than a mere bandaid. It'll get rid of it for a few days at the most, but if you don't remove the affected roots from the plant, the root rot will just reoccur.
I read that too which is why I tried to go the route of beneficial organisms but things like Hydrogaurd aren't available in my area. Since running h2o2 continuously things seem fine though. There are still the damaged roots and there's a lot of brown. Trying to determine bad from good is a real grey area in my case. I'll remove the most obvious globs. I'm still toying with the idea of taking clones from them and starting over. There wouldn't be much delay in that as I'm basically at the beginning anyway. I dunno.
 

spyro

Member
Thanks for sharing your experience spyro,

The only reason I went with the more expensive AN PH perfect nutes is because I want to avoid the maintenance of adjusting the ph, Which sounds like its quite frequent with DWC especially near the end. So far the ph has been 'perfect' even at these low ppms and for well more than a week. I also add Z9 and this probably extends the time the ph is stable.

I had read about people having cal mag deficiencies with AN nutes and their solution was to use tap water cause those minerals are usually in tap water. If you RO filter your water you are removing the minerals so I am using tap water with the chlorine evaporated and why not add some cal mag if necessary? I would be willing to bet using other additives wouldn't wreck the ph. So next time around I'm probably going to try using just the base AN PH Perfect nutes and other, cheaper additives. Worst case, you would have to balance the ph manually.

To deal with the nitrogen toxicity, did you dial down the ppm? Or was it happening anyway at moderate levels?



I read that too which is why I tried to go the route of beneficial organisms but things like Hydrogaurd aren't available in my area. Since running h2o2 continuously things seem fine though. There are still the damaged roots and there's a lot of brown. Trying to determine bad from good is a real grey area in my case. I'll remove the most obvious globs. I'm still toying with the idea of taking clones from them and starting over. There wouldn't be much delay in that as I'm basically at the beginning anyway. I dunno.
I totally agree with you on taking clones. Especially since the root rot seems to keep reappearing, despite your efforts.
I loved the pH Perfect technology, and it is AN's strongest point. I used the 3-part base confidently as a beginner. I was even a little skeptical at first. But after a few weeks of checking the ph and getting consistent readings, it got to a point where I knew I didn't have to. No kidding, with well water my pH landed on 5.8 every time. Amazing. I just kept having deficiency or toxicity issues, and the price was quite a bit more than I was willing to pay. I gave GH a try, and I swear, my pH usually lands between 5.9 and 6.2. I was unaware that GH products also have buffers that will adjust your pH. Only thing is I have to spot check. But my plants have never looked better. because of the pH perfect technology, I have been curious, however, about what it would be like to use the Connoisseur line. perhaps one day when the price isn't such an issue.
 

spyro

Member
To deal with the nitrogen toxicity, did you dial down the ppm? Or was it happening anyway at moderate levels?
I forgot to answer this part...

Yes I even dialed it all back from 1/2 to 1/4 strength. Still kept getting claw like leaves. But then I used way more nutrients than just the three-part after getting the hang of it. I got to a point where I was using the entire Grandmaster series. It just got to where I wondered if I would get the same results from another brand, and that was when I decided to try GH. And even though there are many GH supplemental nutrients, I have found that its way cheaper and less time consuming to keep it simple. And who knows, maybe using The Grandmaster line was a bit too much. But now I'm so used to GH prices that I'm spoiled.
 

Rifleman

Member of the Month: Mar 2016 - Plant of the Month: Nov 2015
I forgot to answer this part...

Yes I even dialed it all back from 1/2 to 1/4 strength. Still kept getting claw like leaves. But then I used way more nutrients than just the three-part after getting the hang of it. I got to a point where I was using the entire Grandmaster series. It just got to where I wondered if I would get the same results from another brand, and that was when I decided to try GH. And even though there are many GH supplemental nutrients, I have found that its way cheaper and less time consuming to keep it simple. And who knows, maybe using The Grandmaster line was a bit too much. But now I'm so used to GH prices that I'm spoiled.
I've been on the pH Perfect train for almost 5 years. Ended up with the entire grand master line up and began wondering what the real world difference was between ALL of it, and just the m,g,b. That led to a couple of side by side grows where two plants were given everything and two just given the base nutrients. I did this under a 600w HPS, and a Mars II 1200w using Dark Devil Autos.

I now buy my m,g,b in gallon bottles, cal-mag in a quart, a couple of beneficial bacteria, and nothing else.

 

StelioKontos

New Member
So spyro, the nitrogen toxicity was happening when you where using the grand master line?

Rifleman, are the 2 plants on the right the ones that had the additives? People often debate weather additives are worth it, especially AN's expensive ones. Could you give us more detail on the differences?

About the cloning and starting over; I'm at the point where I may run into warm weather by the end of flower and may have temp issues. So instead of taking a small clone what if I where to basically take the majority of the plant as a clone? Basically just cut the bottom off. I know large clones can be taken but I've never seen most of the plant taken as a clone. Theoretically it should work the same, no?
 

Rifleman

Member of the Month: Mar 2016 - Plant of the Month: Nov 2015
Sorry, the photo is my current grow with just the pH Perfect m,g,b. The comparison grows were a couple of years ago. There was no difference in harvest size, shape, texture, taste, or effect.

I know some can say well the grower has a lot to do with it, and maybe I'm not the grower I think I am. There might be some truth in that, IDK, I don't have anyone local that grows that I could judge myself against. What I am sure of though is my ability to grow cannabis for smoking and it's effects on me. I now save my money for other things.
 

spyro

Member
So spyro, the nitrogen toxicity was happening when you where using the grand master line?

Rifleman, are the 2 plants on the right the ones that had the additives? People often debate weather additives are worth it, especially AN's expensive ones. Could you give us more detail on the differences?

About the cloning and starting over; I'm at the point where I may run into warm weather by the end of flower and may have temp issues. So instead of taking a small clone what if I where to basically take the majority of the plant as a clone? Basically just cut the bottom off. I know large clones can be taken but I've never seen most of the plant taken as a clone. Theoretically it should work the same, no?
Yes, that's right. 13 supplements and the 3 part base. I bought the base nutes by the 4L jugs and the rest by the liter. The price of Bud Factor X was the worst. And even after all that, I could never get it dialed in. I did 4 whole grows with that bundle before deciding that maybe I should simplify things a bit. At the time, I noticed some amazing photos of these beautiful buds by someone using only GH 3 part, cal mag, and Hydroguard. I did a price comparison and figured that, if I couldn't get the results I wanted with GH, at least I didn't pay as much for those as I did for AN. After just one grow, which went without incident, I was sold. And all that's not to say that I think GH is better than AN. But I was literally spending three times as much money as I did with the GH combo. I was also spending a lot more time than I realized on water changes.
 

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StelioKontos

New Member
Yes, that's right. 13 supplements and the 3 part base.
Holy moly that must have cost a lot. I didn't plan on using more than just the hobbyist line, voodoo juice alone was pricey enough. Next time around I'm going to use the base AN for the ph perfect, h2o2, z9 and something for roots.

Thanks for your input guys.
As for the cloning I think I'm just gonna let them go as is. There has been significant growth lately.
 
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