Time for an HPS, but I need some help

H

HossGrowsBud

New Member
Hey guys, well the other day another one of my 6500k 65W cfls died and I realized how much money I have tied up in cfls of all spectrums, sizes, shapes etc. I decided that I want to cut my losses and move into the realm of an HPS. Now, I am working with a modestly sized area so there are a lot of things that I am looking for to make everything work out great.

My growing space is 2' deep, 3' wide and 4' tall. From the research that I have done, it appears that I am a perfect candidate for a 250W HPS am I correct? I am really looking for a more powerful light that will get higher potency and more yield. I only grow 2-5 plants at a time in a Deep Water Culture system, so it doesn't need to be all that intense. Now, since I am limited on space, I really want to avoid dealing with reflectors, cool tubes, bulbs, chords and ballasts. I have seen some set ups like that obtainable for a little less money than the complete systems, but I don't feel like putting up with the possible additional hassels.

So, all in all, I am looking for a 250W HPS complete lighting system. I have looked at a bunch of sites and sponsors etc, but I am afraid to take a leap without asking you guys first. Also, I would love to not have to switch my lighting setups very much for veg and flower. I don't need to get a special ballast to do this correct, I just need to get the proper conversion MH bulb?

The system that seems to be smacking me in the face is the Sun System 2. I am just a bit confused about how the cooling works with these systems. First off, am I going to need an active cooling system for the light setup, or can I just do it passively like with cfls. Obviously it is going to get hotter than cfls, but many sites advertised that the system is "air cooled" which sounds somewhat like a possibility for passive cooling. If this exists, I am definitely interested. If not, this means that I need to get the flange attachments, some ducting and an inline fan correct? I know that you are supposed to blow bulbs with a fan as opposed to sucking them, but how does one blow when there is the lighting system there?


Sorry for the long wordy post guys, I am just really hoping that someone can point me in a few helpful directions.


In recap, I am looking for a 250W HPS complete lighting system and a convertible MH bulb.

Thanks in advance guys

Hoss
 
Honestly, I would shoot for a 400W system.. The 250 will do well for you, but I can tell you that after a couple of harvests you will probably kick yourself for not getting the 400. The 250 would be adequate for your space, but the 400 would give you enough light to cover all of your plants very well. If you're on a tight budget, the 250 would work, but just think of down the line if you plan to upgrade or not.. a 400W system is only a little bit more.

As far as the ballast goes, as long as you go digital, they're usually setup to handle HPS and MH conversion bulbs. All you need to do is change the bulb, and youre ready to go.

If you end up going with a 250w system, as long as you have good ventilation in your grow area, you shouldn't really need to cool it. I just picked up a 600w MH/HPS system from HTG for $250 (ballast, hood, mh, hps, cord), and it doesn't have an air cooled hood or anything, and my temps are fine. The bulb itself gets hot, but if you have a fan blowing near it, it keeps the reflector cool to the touch.

Air cooled hoods require ducting to be installed, along with inline fans to help circulate air through the hood to remove heat. This isn't a must for all systems, but keeping the bulb cooler will result in a longer bulb life. Like I mentioned above, if you have a fan blowing near the bulb, it will do the same job.

250W HPS = ~29,000 lumens
400W HPS = ~50,000 lumens
600W HPS = ~90,000 lumens

it all comes down to your grow area and how you want to grow your plants.. If you just want to grow them straight up, a 400W system will penetrate much better than a 250W system.

Once you make the switch from CFL's to HID, you will be amazed at the difference in your plants, I know I was.
 
400w sounds more appropriate. 600w would give better results even.

the limiting factor on your equipment is going to be your investment so how much are you willing to spend? You can get a 400w for as cheap as $50 pretty consistently if you opt for a low bay but they often hang the bulb vertical which is worthless so you wanna get a horticultural light. I would set aside around $500 so you can afford 400w ballast ($100), hortilux super hps lamp ($80), mh/mh conversion or dual arc lamp ($40), reflector ($150), fan and accessories ($130)
 
I agree with TheCriMsonK20 for the most part. Not big on conversion bulbs as they are higher priced for one bulb than the difference in a switchable ballast and also deliver less lumens. I have both a 250 and a 400 from HTG. The 250 can be vented with good room ventilation. Just make sure you have a small fan blowing between the top of you plants and the light. Keeps it cool so you can get your light closer and "exercises" the plants for strong stem growth. Here's what HTG has in a 250 switchable. About $50 more than either HPS or MH alone.



High Tech Garden Supply
 
Thanks for the replies, now I have more to think about. A few questions for both of you though.


The reason why I didn't look into 400W HPS is my intense fear of heat. The grow area has decent airflow, but the 400W I feel would require me to get some more intense cooling in there. Also, I live in a rental house and I am trying to stay as safe as possible. My reasoning for the 250w was that I had noticed that they didn't give off too much heat. In any situation safety should matter, and a fire is terrible, but even more so in a rental house while at college haha.

I am probably going to end up splitting the cost with my buddy. We were looking at like 300$ total, but that price was figured in looking at 250W systems.

Not trying to ask for too much, but would it be possible for either of you to link me some recommendations? Having a ballast that is not attached to the light fixture may work, but I have no idea of how much space it takes up or what conditions it needs etc. I was looking for the all in one system to try and keep it simple.
 
I honestly think I'm just really confused. My dad has taught me construction, metal work, wood work, engines, mechanics, plumbing and all sorts of other things, but ironically, my Electrical Engineer father has not been able to break my blanks with electric. It is like a foreign language to me no matter how many books I read about it haha.

I want to spend as little as possible, cause myself the least amount of complications, but get an improvement.
 
if heats a problem than you definitely want a remote ballast... are you looking to get a package or buy the parts individually and get what you want, I don't know.

On eBay there is a decent kit that you can fit with air cooling very easily. Just need a 4" duct and an inline fan.

You probably need air cooled hood tho so the cheap kit isn't so good.
 
Just had a thought, maybe I am so closed minded towards the separate ballasts and such because I don't get it that well. How do you set up the light without a complete set up? Would I have to do the bake-around cool tube and reflector kinda thing?
 
Train, heat may not be a problem, it may just be a fear haha. I never saw a remote ballast with some contextual things around it for size. That system doesn't look bad at all.

I'm still torn on the 250 400 thing. I guess 400 just makes more sense. Even after I move out of here and get my own place, I will then just be making a more legit and larger setup that the 400 will definitely be better for.
 
HossGrowsBud said:
Thanks for the replies, now I have more to think about. A few questions for both of you though.


The reason why I didn't look into 400W HPS is my intense fear of heat. The grow area has decent airflow, but the 400W I feel would require me to get some more intense cooling in there. Also, I live in a rental house and I am trying to stay as safe as possible. My reasoning for the 250w was that I had noticed that they didn't give off too much heat. In any situation safety should matter, and a fire is terrible, but even more so in a rental house while at college haha.

I am probably going to end up splitting the cost with my buddy. We were looking at like 300$ total, but that price was figured in looking at 250W systems.

Not trying to ask for too much, but would it be possible for either of you to link me some recommendations? Having a ballast that is not attached to the light fixture may work, but I have no idea of how much space it takes up or what conditions it needs etc. I was looking for the all in one system to try and keep it simple.
Click to expand...
dude if you have a budget of $300, you can easily get a 600w system, and have enough for a bag of smoke afterwards!

When I went to HTG to pick up my light, I think I remember the 400W switchable systems being $200 for the complete system, including the MH and HPS bulbs. The ballast is also not attached to the hood on either system, and has a 15' cord, so you can have the ballast pretty far away from the hood. The ballast has a fan on it that runs while it's on, and I've been running my 600w ballast 24/0 for over a week now and the ballast doesn't get hot at all.

Honestly, the 600W doesn't get hot as long as the fan is blowing air over it. If there is no airflow, it will build up some heat, but nothing too intense. If you want to go with a 400, it will put off even less heat than a 600..

What are your temps like now? Mine were a little low, mid 60's, low 70's, and after installing the light, they are low 70's to mid 70's.. So expect a 10 degree increase with a 600W system with good airflow.

I will also mention the fan I am using is rather small, I got it from home depot for like 7 bucks, so it's nothing special.
 
Train, with this one would I just get 4" ducting and 4" inline fan and run ducting up out of the top and have a fan pulling air through the hood / sucking heat out of the hood?
 
another vote for 400w over 250w

also you can get dimmable ballasts now, I got a dimmable 1000w, can run at 600/750/1000, I think you can get 600 dimmable down to 400 or even 250...
 
HossGrowsBud said:
Train, heat may not be a problem, it may just be a fear haha. I never saw a remote ballast with some contextual things around it for size. That system doesn't look bad at all.

I'm still torn on the 250 400 thing. I guess 400 just makes more sense. Even after I move out of here and get my own place, I will then just be making a more legit and larger setup that the 400 will definitely be better for.
Click to expand...
the system I have is a Digital Greenhouse system, and you can find them on ebay also in HTG's store. They usually run $50 cheaper on ebay than in the store, but shipping is around $20. If you get lucky and nobody else bids on it, you can get it decently priced.

HTG's customer service is above all.. If anything is broken or not up to par, they always send out replacements without any hassle. great guys there for sure.

I got the basic setup with the maxwing reflector.. It's the cheapest reflector they have, and it works great. I would only go with an aircooled reflector if you absolutely have to get your temps down.

Otherwise I would run a standard reflector without the glass.. The glass usually filters out the small amount of UV light the lamps put out, and it's been shown that UV helps increase potency.
 
Crimsonk, 600 in that little space makes me nervous, but I think I am okay doing a 400W system. My temps using my cfls are around 80 which is a bit too high. Fighting the cold from outside and the heat from the house makes it a bit difficult in the winter haha. My last grow stayed at 75* at all times during the spring and summer, it was great.


THanks a lot guys, I'm just going to keep looking around at some 400W systems. If you see anything that you think would be a good deal for me please let me know!

Thanks!

Hoss
 
ya thats what it would be doing. I bought one of those the hood isn't very good... I always buy my lights one part at a time and wire them myself. I bought that 400w digital for $100 twice and its good and I use a 600w ballast from the same guy right now.
 
yeah if your temps are that high, i would stick with the 400w system.. It will get a bit hotter, but if you throw an additional fan in there to cool the light down, you shouldn't have much of an increase in temps.

Whats your CFL setup like now? The temps may not even fluctuate if you are running some hot CFL's.
 
Do you think that having the 400 in there would mean taht I can't do an open reflector? That is the next mental hump I guess haha, figuring whether I need to do air cooled or not.

I am pretty sure that I am going to go with Htg though because I have never heard anything remotely negative about them.
 
HossGrowsBud said:
Hey guys, well the other day another one of my 6500k 65W cfls died and I realized how much money I have tied up in cfls of all spectrums, sizes, shapes etc. I decided that I want to cut my losses and move into the realm of an HPS. Now, I am working with a modestly sized area so there are a lot of things that I am looking for to make everything work out great.

My growing space is 2' deep, 3' wide and 4' tall. From the research that I have done, it appears that I am a perfect candidate for a 250W HPS am I correct? I am really looking for a more powerful light that will get higher potency and more yield. I only grow 2-5 plants at a time in a Deep Water Culture system, so it doesn't need to be all that intense. Now, since I am limited on space, I really want to avoid dealing with reflectors, cool tubes, bulbs, chords and ballasts. I have seen some set ups like that obtainable for a little less money than the complete systems, but I don't feel like putting up with the possible additional hassels.

So, all in all, I am looking for a 250W HPS complete lighting system. I have looked at a bunch of sites and sponsors etc, but I am afraid to take a leap without asking you guys first. Also, I would love to not have to switch my lighting setups very much for veg and flower. I don't need to get a special ballast to do this correct, I just need to get the proper conversion MH bulb?

The system that seems to be smacking me in the face is the Sun System 2. I am just a bit confused about how the cooling works with these systems. First off, am I going to need an active cooling system for the light setup, or can I just do it passively like with cfls. Obviously it is going to get hotter than cfls, but many sites advertised that the system is "air cooled" which sounds somewhat like a possibility for passive cooling. If this exists, I am definitely interested. If not, this means that I need to get the flange attachments, some ducting and an inline fan correct? I know that you are supposed to blow bulbs with a fan as opposed to sucking them, but how does one blow when there is the lighting system there?


Sorry for the long wordy post guys, I am just really hoping that someone can point me in a few helpful directions.


In recap, I am looking for a 250W HPS complete lighting system and a convertible MH bulb.

Thanks in advance guys

Hoss
Click to expand...

Hoss,
I used the sun system 150 hps in my grow area. the all-in-one system is convenient, but the ballast (and sometimes the bulb) hum. I never had heat issues. I always had a fan blowing directly at the exposed bulb. I was able to touch the hood with my bare hand. I never used any kind of exhaust duct work for the light. You can see the initial set up here:
ChicagoJoe's 1st Grow - SCROG - 150W - Suggestions Welcome
 

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