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Tims First Hydro Grow- Tons of Pics! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, PPP

onthe420train

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

Yea our systems are both flood and drain but the inert media of yours makes the pH requirements a little bit different. When I am low like 5.8 and 5.9 I get less nitrogen but still the plants thrive - a little higher 6.2 they are greener and 6.5 greener still. It is hydro but soil-less medium.

I think you could get away with flooding way more often, no? I flood a lot.

they look a lil underwatered to me here.
 

MMRC Grower

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

Yea our systems are both flood and drain but the inert media of yours makes the pH requirements a little bit different. When I am low like 5.8 and 5.9 I get less nitrogen but still the plants thrive - a little higher 6.2 they are greener and 6.5 greener still. It is hydro but soil-less medium.

I think you could get away with flooding way more often, no? I flood a lot.

they look a lil underwatered to me here.
I think it may just be the angle of the picture, why they look under watered. I lifted the camera up in the air here to try and get more of the room in the picture, so it kind of looks like the leaves are a little droopy. What do you see about them that makes you think they could be under watered?? Just curious?
 

onthe420train

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

Well the droopiness that you see around on some of the plants. Maybe you're right and it was kind of the angle they don't look starving, thats for sure.

I'm curious to know more about this drooping in the very lower right hand corner of this picture - do you know what caused that? I have some leafs on one plant - the blueberry of course (first to let you know somethings wrong) that have been folded down for a long time doesn't seem to go away. Just the older fan leaves on her are drooping a bit they also have very small patches of necrosis.

 

MMRC Grower

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

Well the droopiness that you see around on some of the plants. Maybe you're right and it was kind of the angle they don't look starving, thats for sure.

I'm curious to know more about this drooping in the very lower right hand corner of this picture - do you know what caused that? I have some leafs on one plant - the blueberry of course (first to let you know somethings wrong) that have been folded down for a long time doesn't seem to go away. Just the older fan leaves on her are drooping a bit they also have very small patches of necrosis.

The leaves on the right are to one of my PPP strains. I have 3 PPP's in total. All grown from seed. The other 2 are growing completely different then this one on the right. It just seems that this plant is very, very picky with my PPM. Its growing in height and stock thickness faster than any other plant in the garden, but the leaves are dry and folded under. Everyone kept telling me that symptoms like that are caused from ppm being too high, but my ppm was very low at 500 when it first started. So I raised the ppm and the leaves on the top started looking better. Then I raised it again and the leaves went back to looking like that.

So I'm just thinking that its a really picky plant when it comes to ppm. The other 2 PPP's in the garden are doing great. The only plant other than this one that looks like it could use a little improvement is my GWS. Leaves feel a little dry on that one with very little, but some inward curling leaves on it. My PPM is between 1,100 and 1,200 right now. General Hydroponics says to be around 1,400, but I think that may be a little too high right now.

I watched the video on GWS that GreenHouse seed made and they said that GWS can really eat up some nutes and tolerate high PPM's, so I dont think I'm over feeding. I plan to gradually increase the PPM as I go, probably by 50-100 ppm per week.
 

MMRC Grower

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

Ok, you're doing a great job.
I think you could double your waterings and see no ill effects, although I'm not an Ebb and Grower and have a little overwatering issue myself (white powdery mold on the top of soil/rw that grows in light?).
I think I will increase watering a little to see what happens.
 

MMRC Grower

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

I'm thinking about making my own nutrient solution. I've searched and searched and I cant find anything that doesnt look like some form of marketing, when it comes to what nutes are better or the best. I hear GH is for new growers, or used because its one of the least expensive. So I think I might just mix up my own nutes and see what happens.

Here's what I found and plan to use as a backbone in the process.


There are sixteen elements which are generally considered to be essential for good plant growth. The macro elements are those required in "high" concentrations: Carbon (C), Hydrogen (H), Oxygen (O), Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), Potassium (K), Calcium (Ca), Sulfur (S), and Magnesium (Mg). Carbon must be supplied to the plant as carbon dioxide gas (CO2). In a small operation or one with large amounts of fresh air movement, additional CO2 may not be required. Larger operations, or ones with high density plantings will need a CO2 generator (See CO2 enrichment, detailed below). Hydrogen is available in sufficient quantities from the atmosphere and oxygen is supplied from well-aerated nutrient solutions. Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, sulfur and magnesium must all be supplied by the nutrient solution.

The micro elements are also essential for growth, but required in smaller concentrations. There is still some disagreement, but generally the micro elements are thought to be: Iron (Fe), Chlorine (Cl), Manganese (Mn), Boron (B), Zinc (Zn), Copper (Cu), and Molybdenum (Mo). Certain plant species may need others for good growth: Silica (Si), Aluminum (Al), Cobalt (Co), Vanadium (V), and Selenium (Se).

Small greenhouse operations often buy ready-made nutrient formulations, only water need be added to prepare the nutrient solution. Larger facilities prepare their own solutions. The commonly used salts and the required amounts to make 1000 liters of 1 ppm solution are given in Table 1. Multiplying the value for a salt by the number of ppm desired in the formula will yield the number of grams to be used per 1000 liters.

Table 1. Fertilizer salts (adapted from Jensen and Malter, 1995)
Fertilizer Salts element supplied grams of fertilizer needed per 1000 liters of water to provide 1 mg/l (ppm) of the nutrient specified
Boric Acid [H3BO3] B 5.64
Calcium nitrate [Ca(NO3)2·4H2O] (15.5-0-0) N 6.45
Ca 4.70
Cupric chloride [CuCl2·2H2O] Cu 2.68
Copper sulfate [Cu(SO4)·5H2O] Cu 3.91
Chelated iron (9%) Fe 11.10
Ferrous sulfate [FeSO4] Fe 5.54
Magnesium sulfate [MgSO4·7H2O] (Epsom salts) Mg 10.75
Manganese chloride [MnCl2·4H2O] Mn 3.60
Manganese sulfate [MnSO4·4H2O] Mn 4.05
Molybdenum trioxide [MoO3] Mo 1.50
Monopotassium phosphate [KH2PO4] (0-22.5-28) K 3.53
P 4.45
Potassium chloride [KCl] (0-0-49.8) K 2.05
Potassium nitrate [KNO3] (13.75-0-36.9) N 7.30
K 2.70
Potassium sulfate [K2SO4] (0-0-43.3) K 2.50
Zinc sulfate [ZnSO4·7H2O] Zn 4.42

Nutrient solutions need to be adjusted during the growing cycle of the crop and are different for each crop grown. Leaf crops generally need higher N, root crops need higher K, and fruit crops such as tomatoes or cucumbers should maintain relatively low N levels.

The nutrient solution for tomatoes is generally made in two or three levels for the various stages of growth (see Table 2, below). Only the macro nutrients change, becoming progressively more concentrated as the crop matures. The micronutrients remain the same throughout the growth cycle. The first stage of growth (Level A formula) is for seedlings from the first true leaf until the plants are 24 inches (62 cm) tall, when initial fruit is 1/4 - 1/2 inches (1 to 1.5 cm) in diameter. After that, Level B formula is used. While the formula in Table 2 has been standard for many years, some new tomato varieties may require much higher nitrogen and potassium. It is advisable for commercial growers to consult their seed company for the recommended nutrient formulas for the tomato variety grown. Optimizing the N:K ratio is important as the crop matures and as the available light and day length changes. Under high light conditions, plants use more N. High K during the fall and early winter months improves fruit quality. It is common practice to double the ratio of K:N during winter months when plants receive less light. The optimum pH of the nutrient solution should be 5.5-6.0. The pH of the nutrient solution can be lowered with phosphoric acid.

Table 2. Preparation of macronutrient and iron solutions for tomato (adapted from Jensen and Malter, 1995)
Chemical compound (fertilizer grade) Level A seedlings to first fruit set (g/1000 liters) Level B Fruit set to harvest (g/1000 liters) Nutrient Level A

(ppm or mg/L)
Level B

(ppm or mg/L)

Magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) 500 500 Mg 50 50
Monopotassium phosphate (0-22.5-28) 270 270 K 199 199
Potassium nitrate (13.75-0-36.9) 200 200 P 62 62
Potassium sulfate (0-0-43.3) 100 100 N 113 144
Calcium nitrate (15.5-0-0) 500 680 Ca 122 165
Chelated iron 25 25 Fe 2.5 2.5

The micronutrients should remain at the same concentration throughout the life of the crop. Optium concentrations for tomatoes are: Boron 0.44, Copper 0.05, Chlorine 0.85, Manganese 0.62, Molybdenum 0.06, Zinc 0.09, Iron 2.5 ppm (mg/L).

Table 3. Preparation of micronutrient stock solution for tomatoes. Use 250 mL of this micronutrient stock in each 1000 liters of nutrient solution from Table 2, above. (adapted from Jensen and Malter, 1995)
Fertilizer Salt grams of chemical in 450 mL stock solution
Boric acid 7.50
Manganous chloride 6.75
Cupric chloride 0.37
Molybdenum trioxide 0.15
Zinc sulfate 1.18

If a concentrated stock solution is used for the macronutrients, then the calcium salts should be kept apart from the other salts in a separate solution. Nitric or phosphoric acid can be used to lower the pH if necessary; concentrated acid should always be carefully diluted before it is added to the stock solutions.
 

onthe420train

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

hmmm I thought a little ammonium was necessary too, but I guess not. Good info! Actually worked out some molar masses, very nice.
"How To Hydroponics" by Keith Roberto said:
Vegetative Nutrient (1 gallon) 9.5-5.67-11.3

6.00 grams of Calcium Nitrate - Ca(NO3)2
2.09 grams of Potassium Nitrate - KNO3
0.46 grams of Potassium Sulfate (Sulfate of Potash) - K2SO4
1.39 grams of Monopotassium Phosphate - KH2PO4
2.42 grams of Magnesium Sulfate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts) - MgSO4*7H2O
0.40 grams of 7% Fe Chelated Trace Element Mix (See Below)


Flowering Nutrient (1 gallon) 5.5-7.97-18.4

4.10 grams of Calcium Nitrate - Ca(NO3)2
2.80 grams of Potassium Nitrate - KNO3
0.46 grams of Potassium Sulfate (Sulfate of Potash) - K2SO4
1.39 grams of Monopotassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
2.40 grams of Magnesium Sulfate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts) - MgSO4*7H2O
0.40 grams of 7% Fe Chelated Trace Elements (See Below)


Chelated Trace Element Mix

Iron (Fe) - 7.00%
Manganese (Mn) - 2.00%
Zinc (Zn) - 0.40%
Copper (Cu) - 0.10%
Boron (B) - 1.30%
Molybdenum - 0.06%
I actually have a .01 gram scale haha just no way of acquiring this insane list of salts... Maybe if I raid the chemistry department at the local uni.
 

MMRC Grower

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

NEED HELP!!!! The stems on my clones are turning purple!!

Okay I have about 16 clones of 4 different strains. The clones are about 2.5 - 3 weeks old.

My PH has been up and down between 5.5 and 6.0.
My PPM around 480 (I think I might be too high, so I dropped it to around 390 tonight)
My Room temps... Not sure, but its been cold. I'm assuming mid 60's. Maybe Low 60's.
My RH around 50%
My Nutes are GH. I'm using clone/seedling strength with tap water.
Res size: 10 gal.
Lights: 4, T8 florescent 4ft tubes. 2 Blue, 2 Red.
Lights are cool to the touch. I have them about an inch from the plants. One or two plants might be touching the bulbs.

The only thing I can think of here, is maybe its too cold or maybe my nutes are too strong. Please help if you can. I dont want these suckers dying on me.

Here's some pics. I lifted the lights for these pics.





Purple Everywhere...






The small ones are always giving me problems.
 

CocoJoe

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

They are rooted, or are you waiting for roots to form?
 

Green Utopia

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

There rooted. There about 2.5 to 3 weeks old.

If you are sure they're rooted. Then I think the purpling is deficiencies. Again. as long as you are sure they're rooted, I would take your ppm up to about 500 and see if you get burn or a little shriveling. You'll spot it before it does any damage.

You've had low ppm so far so I don't think its lockout at this early stage. I struggled with the same thing - purpling in the newer plants - and it was cause I was being too cautious with my nutes. As soon as they have roots and are ready for the veg stage - get the nutes up to veg levels - low veg at first of course.

I saw the purple start to go away almost immediately, certainly some improvement overnight, and by a week or two later it was all but gone. And since I've upped the nutes a little for seedlings and sprouts, I get no purpling in my sprouts.
 

MMRC Grower

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

All my clones had 2 times the amount of roots shown in the picture below before I transplanted them into the pots.



My nutes were just 20 ppm below 500. I have been at 480 ppm. I think 480 is pretty high for newly rooted clones. Maybe I'm wrong, but I dont think that 20 PPM (to get to 500) would make much of a different.

So should I go even higher than 480? This is there first few days in this system, right out of the clone dome. I dont want to burn them up or kill them. I just dropped it down to 390 last night to see if it was because of too high of nutes. I also just threw a heater in there.

So higher than 500ppm for newly rooted clones??
 

McBudz

Nug of the Month: Oct 2008
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

NEED HELP!!!! The stems on my clones are turning purple!!

Okay I have about 16 clones of 4 different strains. The clones are about 2.5 - 3 weeks old.

My PH has been up and down between 5.5 and 6.0.
My PPM around 480 (I think I might be too high, so I dropped it to around 390 tonight)
My Room temps... Not sure, but its been cold. I'm assuming mid 60's. Maybe Low 60's.
My RH around 50%
My Nutes are GH. I'm using clone/seedling strength with tap water.
Res size: 10 gal.
Lights: 4, T8 florescent 4ft tubes. 2 Blue, 2 Red.
Lights are cool to the touch. I have them about an inch from the plants. One or two plants might be touching the bulbs.

The only thing I can think of here, is maybe its too cold or maybe my nutes are too strong. Please help if you can. I dont want these suckers dying on me.

Here's some pics. I lifted the lights for these pics.





Purple Everywhere...






The small ones are always giving me problems.


Purple stems are almost always due to genetics or cold temps. If you have been getting a little cool then thats most likely it. the leaves will tell you a better story then the stems when it comes to def. Your clones look A+
 

MMRC Grower

New Member
Re: Tims First Hydro Grow- TONS OF PICS! -Need Help OG Kush, Lm Skunk, GWS, Church, P

Purple stems are almost always due to genetics or cold temps. If you have been getting a little cool then thats most likely it. the leaves will tell you a better story then the stems when it comes to def. Your clones look A+
Thanks a lot. First I thought that my nutes were too high, so then I lowered them. They couldnt be too low at 500ppm. There's no way. Plus they were fine in the dome with no nutes at all. My PH is good. Lights are decent enough for the situation. RH is good. So that really only leaves two things. Nute lockout, with is unlikely or temps too cold.

We've had some crazy rain pouring down here in Southern California for almost a week now and it has brought some very cold temperatures with it. My fans pull in fresh air from outside, so the cold air comes right on in. It has gotten to 65 in my flowering room with the 1,000 watt hps light, now that I think about it. So the temps in my clone/seedling room are probably well under 60 degrees. Probably around 50's of 40's.

So I threw a heater in there, so its nice and cozy in there now. In a couple days we'll see what happens.

Thanks for the comment!!
 
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