To cut off leaves or leave them during flower?

[Weaselcracker]

one has to be careful with forum opining, fortunately skepticism seems to grow with experience.

I agree. But as long as we are not yelling about it, opinions were what were asked for and what these threads are made for.
But yeah I agree with you re the skepticism bit. I’ve tried massive defol/non defol side by side in the past and had much lower yields on the defoliated one. Will probably try again someday with better growing skills, and the right strain under the right circumstances. But when a new (I think) grower is asking ‘should I remove most of my fan leaves in flowering’ my opinion is ‘probably not’.

....so far removed from a natural process...

We are working with the exact same natural processes that have been around for far longer than we have. Yes obviously we can work to help enhance those processes a little, but the basic mechanisms remain the same. Plants are very good at what they do and I’m not seeing much room for more bud on my mostly unmolested plants. So I don’t see much space for gain even if I was aware of any science behind massive defoliation. And so far I’ve never found any. So yeah - I’m skeptical.

Its crazy when you do cut and 3 days later it dont even look like you touched them.

.

It’s also good when you don’t remove them and they don’t have to spend those three days growing them all back again...

Getting past my 2 cents limit now though so I’m going to wander off, cheers guys.

 

[TysonOG]

But surely this is taking energy away from growing the buds. Isn't there windows of time in which your should take these.

That's why I do all my defoliation prior to the end of stretch. During stretch the plant is naturally producing a bunch of new fan leaves, but once the little budlets form, the new growth is pretty much sugar leaves.
Again, only as necessary, and really dependent on your growing situation. I know I have cut over 1000 leaves from my one plant in my sig. And shes only on day 12 of flower

 

[multiVortex]

I use a really dense scrog so it is important for me to defoliate under the screen.

IMHO, that's quite acceptable. Keeping the area under the screen that (most likely) isn't going to get much light, or produce much, isn't a bad thing. Any new growth triggered will be up where there is light.

In the canopy, I only remove fans when absolutely necessary. They provide lots of energy to the plant and most importantly are nutrient sinks that the plant can tap into. That being said, I probably remove more than most due to density alone.

Agreed. Tuck if possible, but it isn't the end of the world if you need to thin the canopy a little bit for the betterment of its overall health. More air, light, etc.

 

[CC420710]

I'm having this dilemma. The bust seem to be growing fine but they are cramped. Any thoughts on mine guys. Almost week 5 of flower

I don’t hear anyone saying no. Yes of course you chop most of the leaves off, if you want. They’re your plants. There are sometimes even worthwhile arguments for doing this.

Maybe you can add some info about what you’re trying to achieve by doing this, and also the rationale or science behind it. It seems like you’d want a very good reason to do that.

I have to disagree with the idea that leaves are constantly falling off of plants outdoors. Older fan leaves get depleted and fall over time as the plant uses them to balance its nutritional needs, and also it’s growth pattern in the light. I don’t notice that happening more outdoors than indoors though.
They’re a great natural buffer against nutrient deficiencies. Cutting them off does not mimic that process in any way, it just means that the plant has less leaves to work with. Less to work with is not a good recipe for more bud.

The comment about the half billion years of evolution was just meant as food for thought.

To my understanding, the reason they chose to is for a bigger yield. One argument says it lets light through to other bud sites and the second argument says removing them allows more focus on buds. I am not saying this is true or that I believe it just what I have been told. Myself I noticed less leaves during late summer causes too much heat stress as the leaves job is to keep it her cool. As far as the leaves outside falling I am just referring to the ones that are on the ground or in the pool everyday. Not sure if it’s specific trees or plants but I do know that I clean them from pool several times a day. As far as Cannabis goes idk I haven’t had the experience of growing outdoors so idk how they grow in natural environment. I have no idea what is best I do know from my first time the plant with the least amount of leaves is doing the worst out of them all the

We typically manipulate the plant be it topping fimming ect so taking a few leaves is in my mind continued manipulation or a better word might be management of the plant thats been manipulated from the beginning. Indoor i am less aggressive but outdoor I want open airable plants especially around the base of the plant to minimize pests and molds

Freshly trimmed yesterday i did some 2 weeks ago and again yesterday makes watering easier and no sense wasting plant energy on useless bud sites.

Just like trees, most people keep the bottom limbs off

 

[CC420710]

I agree. But as long as we are not yelling about it, opinions were what were asked for and what these threads are made for.
But yeah I agree with you re the skepticism bit. I’ve tried massive defol/non defol side by side in the past and had much lower yields on the defoliated one. Will probably try again someday with better growing skills, and the right strain under the right circumstances. But when a new (I think) grower is asking ‘should I remove most of my fan leaves in flowering’ my opinion is ‘probably not’.




We are working with the exact same natural processes that have been around for far longer than we have. Yes obviously we can work to help enhance those processes a little, but the basic mechanisms remain the same. Plants are very good at what they do and I’m not seeing much room for more bud on my mostly unmolested plants. So I don’t see much space for gain even if I was aware of any science behind massive defoliation. And so far I’ve never found any. So yeah - I’m skeptical.


.

It’s also good when you don’t remove them and they don’t have to spend those three days growing them all back again...

Getting past my 2 cents limit now though so I’m going to wander off, cheers guys.

definitely a hot topic but a lot of info

 

[bobrown14]

It depends. Defoliation is (obviously) a hotly debated topic.

Google "extension service hemp"

All the state universities in the USA are on the cannabis trail. They using science to blaze it. A lot of this weird stuff we do with cannabis will be completely rolled over on buy the college kids. They are actually going to get paid for growing weed by our government and your tax dollar.

Sharpen you spades and not your trimmers is my guess.

Nothing beats hard work.

Farming is hard work.

We typically manipulate the plant be it topping fimming ect so taking a few leaves is in my mind continued manipulation or a better word might be management of the plant thats been manipulated from the beginning. Indoor i am less aggressive but outdoor I want open airable plants especially around the base of the plant to minimize pests and molds

Freshly trimmed yesterday i did some 2 weeks ago and again yesterday makes watering easier and no sense wasting plant energy on useless bud sites.

You're about to go into flower and you are "pruning" your bush for flower production.

Thats not DEFOIL = taking off fan leaves = counter production.

Indoors is a little different than outdoors.

Time to harvest is a HUGE one. One reason we grow indoors.

Doing things like defoil/cutting off all the fan leaves is adding time to harvest.

Longer the grow the more the risk (likely hood of something going wrong) increases.

Yeah whats in your picture is something every grower should be doing.
Thats not cutting off the fan leaves.

 

[andIhalped]

I agree. But as long as we are not yelling about it, opinions were what were asked for and what these threads are made for.
But yeah I agree with you re the skepticism bit. I’ve tried massive defol/non defol side by side in the past and had much lower yields on the defoliated one. Will probably try again someday with better growing skills, and the right strain under the right circumstances. But when a new (I think) grower is asking ‘should I remove most of my fan leaves in flowering’ my opinion is ‘probably not’.




We are working with the exact same natural processes that have been around for far longer than we have. Yes obviously we can work to help enhance those processes a little, but the basic mechanisms remain the same. Plants are very good at what they do and I’m not seeing much room for more bud on my mostly unmolested plants. So I don’t see much space for gain even if I was aware of any science behind massive defoliation. And so far I’ve never found any. So yeah - I’m skeptical.


.

It’s also good when you don’t remove them and they don’t have to spend those three days growing them all back again...

Getting past my 2 cents limit now though so I’m going to wander off, cheers guys.

I prune fairly significantly, because I grow outside in the PNW where rot during flower is a major risk. I only do it to reduce the rot threat by improving airflow. It works.

I do not do it because I think that it somehow boosts quality or quantity. (Unlike most on 420, I’m relatively unconcerned about optimizing either of those—I grow way more than I can use & it’s plenty strong enough for me y mis amigos)

It’s possible that pruning reduces yield, but so does rampant rot & I’m quite convinced that improved ventilation through the plant significantly reduces the significant rot peril here in the fall. If it doesn’t rain, it usually dews heavily in late-Sept on.

(Few here will even hazard growing outside without a greenhouse, but I dare & I usu. lose much less than 1% of yield to rot, due, partially, to pruning).

So, I only do it reduce the potential of major losses to mold. If I lived someplace with reliably dry, sunny autumns (like N.Nev where I guerilla grew), I wouldn’t ever prune outdoor plants.

& indoors? Blissfully ignorant & unlike many that are, I won’t opine about that which I know nothing.

Just what I do where I’m at…DIY = DIY

Upward & onward!

 

[bobrown14]

For bud rot spray your plants a few times say in June and again in late August with
Southern Ag - Garden Friendly Fungicide.

It's organic even in Oregon and Washington State and ok for cannabis. No requirement for safety for hoo-man applicator either.

It works. I live in Philly. Its WAY more humid here and hotter too. We actually get the same or more rain fall per year than you guys out in the PacNW. 100" per year and we get almost every night starting June well into August - night time its dew point. Basically we in a cloud. We live on top of a mountain about 600' above sea level (the city).

Gotta run cultivars that can handle heat and humidity.

The Garden Friendly fungicide will be your friend. It's cheap enough and you dont need very much. All is required is a light spray. Not need to drench plants.

 

[TysonOG]

I use Southern Ag, check my journal. Stuffs legit. Use 5ml per gallon as a fungicide. You can also use it in a hydro res to fight root rot. Do that at 1ml per 20 gallons.

 

[bobrown14]

Its good stuff. I was actually pleasantly surprised this summer. No PM or mold to speak of and it's been hot and humid. My raspberries (ever bearing) have blossom end rot now. I have not sprayed them sadly.