Twisted new growth and cupped leaves

[ToasterKO]

Hi All,

First post after reading for a while.

The last few days my plants (stardawg) have begin to droop and new growth is twisted.

The leaves are otherwise nice and green.

Growing medium is coco. Temps are 20-28 degrees c. Currently in veg due to flip next week to flower.

Following Canna Coco feed chart currently.

I’m at a loss and don’t know what could be causing it. Any help would be great!

 

[Auggie]

Could be a LOT of things.
There is some kind of stress going on.

Could be temps.
Bugs.
Nutes.

You are in a tent I see. What's the temps get like? At night?
Do you check for bugs? What kind of pest control program do you use?
What kind of, in what amounts do you use for nutes?

 

[ToasterKO]

Hi Auggie, thanks for the reply.

Temps at night are around 19/20deg c. I have noticed the evening temps reach 30 once or twice so this might be the issue?

I don’t have a pest control regime, I just visually check for pests each day. Should I have a programme?

I’m using 1.25ml of Canna A and B along with cannazym and rhizoctonic.

 

[Auggie]

No, the temps look ok. And, I assume its not getting over 95F (35C) during 'day'.
From your use of language (and Celsius temps) I assume that you are in Europe? Canada? I am not familiar with pests of the world, but, in my part of the planet we are having an infestation of Russet mites. They are so tiny that you need at least a 100x scope to see them -- but, the damage looks very much like what I see there. (I am currently fighting these lil bastids).
There are safe methods to deal with pests; and these measures can be used safely, routinely and prophylactically.

Also, they may be getting a bit too much Nitrogen.

If it was me ... I would:
Skip watering one day.
Reduce nutes by 50% for a week.
Get a good pest control program going using Green Wash, or Plant Therapy or an oil/soap base insecticide. Use it every week as directed.

Long term:
~ Get a PPM pen Spend about $20 and it will last forever. Learn how and why to use it.
~ Get a Ph pen. Spend about $100 and it will last forever. Learn how and why to use it.
~ Supplement your feed with Magnesium. Best and cheapest source is Epsom Salts. Pennies per pound at your local pharmacy. Don't get scented, or for foot soak or any of that crap. Just plain Jane ES. Use a gram per liter in each feeding.

 

[ToasterKO]

No, the temps look ok. And, I assume its not getting over 95F (35C) during 'day'.
From your use of language (and Celsius temps) I assume that you are in Europe? Canada? I am not familiar with pests of the world, but, in my part of the planet we are having an infestation of Russet mites. They are so tiny that you need at least a 100x scope to see them -- but, the damage looks very much like what I see there. (I am currently fighting these lil bastids).
There are safe methods to deal with pests; and these measures can be used safely, routinely and prophylactically.

Also, they may be getting a bit too much Nitrogen.

If it was me ... I would:
Skip watering one day.
Reduce nutes by 50% for a week.
Get a good pest control program going using Green Wash, or Plant Therapy or an oil/soap base insecticide. Use it every week as directed.

Long term:
~ Get a PPM pen Spend about $20 and it will last forever. Learn how and why to use it.
~ Get a Ph pen. Spend about $100 and it will last forever. Learn how and why to use it.
~ Supplement your feed with Magnesium. Best and cheapest source is Epsom Salts. Pennies per pound at your local pharmacy. Don't get scented, or for foot soak or any of that crap. Just plain Jane ES. Use a gram per liter in each feeding.

Thanks again Auggie.

You’re correct, I’m in the U.K.

I’ll have a read about russet mites and the best way to combat them.

If it is those, can the plant recover once they are gone?

Could you recommend any oil/soap based washes?

 

[nivek]

Might i ask how close your lights are? Looks a bit to my uneducated eyes to be heat stress. Not from temps but from light too close.

Could easily be mites as suggested but i would make darn sure of that before i took .any. Drastic action

Karma sent friend

 

[ToasterKO]

Might i ask how close your lights are? Looks a bit to my uneducated eyes to be heat stress. Not from temps but from light too close.

Could easily be mites as suggested but i would make darn sure of that before i took .any. Drastic action

Karma sent friend

Thanks mate.

The light is roughly 30” away from the plants as when this first happened I was conscious of the temps.

 

[Auggie]

Thanks again Auggie.

You’re correct, I’m in the U.K.

I’ll have a read about russet mites and the best way to combat them.

If it is those, can the plant recover once they are gone?

Could you recommend any oil/soap based washes?

Russet mites (and broadmites) are a real bitch to get rid of.
You almost have to resign yourself to the fact that the best you can do is control them and limit their population.

And, yes, the plant can and will recover just fine. In fact, if it is bugs, and you spray her ... you should see immediate improvement ... like 24 hours.
And, if it is not bugs ... spraying with a soap/oil solution will not hurt her a bit.

The two soap/oil base solutions that I am familiar with, and have used is Plant Therapy and Green Wash. I have even made my own. Use as directed ...
I use Plant Therapy every week, foliar on Tuesday and Friday. Lights off till dry. Natural Plant Insecticide & Fungicide | Lost Coast Plant Therapy

As an aside: I also use Coco Canna for a medium and I do not water every day. They just don't need it every day.
Every other day is fine, and water to 20% run off every time.
And, Epsom Salts is important with Canna.

Over watering can cause stress too.
It's ok for the girls to get hungry and thirsty once in a while.
It's natural.

 

[ToasterKO]

Russet mites (and broadmites) are a real bitch to get rid of.
You almost have to resign yourself to the fact that the best you can do is control them and limit their population.

And, yes, the plant can and will recover just fine. In fact, if it is bugs, and you spray her ... you should see immediate improvement ... like 24 hours.
And, if it is not bugs ... spraying with a soap/oil solution will not hurt her a bit.

The two soap/oil base solutions that I am familiar with, and have used is Plant Therapy and Green Wash. I have even made my own. Use as directed ...
I use Plant Therapy every week, foliar on Tuesday and Friday. Lights off till dry. Natural Plant Insecticide & Fungicide | Lost Coast Plant Therapy

As an aside: I also use Coco Canna for a medium and I do not water every day. They just don't need it every day.
Every other day is fine, and water to 20% run off every time.
And, Epsom Salts is important with Canna.

Over watering can cause stress too.
It's ok for the girls to get hungry and thirsty once in a while.
It's natural.

Thanks my man. Really appreciate the help.

I’ve ordered some soap solution and it’s coming on Wednesday. Hopefully it solves it.

 

[Auggie]

Wednesday is a long time Mites can do serious damage in three or four days.
Mix 15 ml of vegetable oil and five drops of dish soap in a liter of water and shake and keep shaking and spray. Get under leaves and all over till dripping wet.
Lights off till dry.

 

[bluter]

oh no. russets are worse than spider mites.

you can also attack them with a mix of 50 / 50 water / 90% iso in a spray bottle. spray from bottom upward. a couple hotshots will help too. hang them while you are away at work to limit exposure. i use them periodically as a preventative during veg.


alternate between different types of treatments. multi prong attacks always seem to work better.

will call in @Sierra Natural Science to see if they have anything

 

[ToasterKO]

Wednesday is a long time Mites can do serious damage in three or four days.
Mix 15 ml of vegetable oil and five drops of dish soap in a liter of water and shake and keep shaking and spray. Get under leaves and all over till dripping wet.
Lights off till dry.

Just done this now and turned the lights out for the night.

I have a 1000x microscope so had a little look on the leaves and couldn’t see anything.

 

[nivek]

gosh,, a full on assault without an enemy

ok then,, karma sent friend

 

[ToasterKO]

Even worse today after 12 hours of darkness.

 

[Buds Buddy]

No, the temps look ok. And, I assume its not getting over 95F (35C) during 'day'.
From your use of language (and Celsius temps) I assume that you are in Europe? Canada? I am not familiar with pests of the world, but, in my part of the planet we are having an infestation of Russet mites. They are so tiny that you need at least a 100x scope to see them -- but, the damage looks very much like what I see there. (I am currently fighting these lil bastids).
There are safe methods to deal with pests; and these measures can be used safely, routinely and prophylactically.

Also, they may be getting a bit too much Nitrogen.

If it was me ... I would:
Skip watering one day.
Reduce nutes by 50% for a week.
Get a good pest control program going using Green Wash, or Plant Therapy or an oil/soap base insecticide. Use it every week as directed.

Long term:
~ Get a PPM pen Spend about $20 and it will last forever. Learn how and why to use it.
~ Get a Ph pen. Spend about $100 and it will last forever. Learn how and why to use it.
~ Supplement your feed with Magnesium. Best and cheapest source is Epsom Salts. Pennies per pound at your local pharmacy. Don't get scented, or for foot soak or any of that crap. Just plain Jane ES. Use a gram per liter in each feeding.

High guys. Hope you don't mind but I want to ask a question. It's about using ES as I've been looking for info on how to use it. The 1 gr. per liter answered 1 question. It's this part I'm asking about.

Use a gram per liter in each feeding.

Do you mix this with your nutes & if so which gets mixed in 1st; or do you just mix with water & feed that separately ?
Thanks.
I've been trying to get info on that & on using Lemon Juice & Baking Soda to adjust the pH.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

is that a heater i see anddo you use it ? , warm dry are will block the underside of leaves causing curls ,
I am going to say dry air and too little fresh air

 

[bluter]

looking like a heat issue.

Temps at night are around 19/20deg c. I have noticed the evening temps reach 30 once or twice so this might be the issue?

30 is high. 19 - 20 are good daytime temps, could be 2-3 degrees higher. i don't get above 25 in my grow space in winter, and have never grown for an extended period near 30 in any season.

also it looks like you are under hps which will help cause the issue.

Temps are 20-28 degrees c.

it's quite a swing. if it sits at the higher end for extended periods you've found you're problem.

 

[ToasterKO]

Thanks mate.

looking like a heat issue.




30 is high. 19 - 20 are good daytime temps, could be 2-3 degrees higher. i don't get above 25 in my grow space in winter, and have never grown for an extended period near 30 in any season.

also it looks like you are under hps which will help cause the issue.





it's quite a swing. if it sits at the higher end for extended periods you've found you're problem.

Thanks mate. I’m certainly starting to think that’s the case.

 

[Auggie]

High guys. Hope you don't mind but I want to ask a question. It's about using ES as I've been looking for info on how to use it. The 1 gr. per liter answered 1 question. It's this part I'm asking about.

Do you mix this with your nutes & if so which gets mixed in 1st; or do you just mix with water & feed that separately ?
Thanks.
I've been trying to get info on that & on using Lemon Juice & Baking Soda to adjust the pH.

I put a handful in a fifty gallon feed bucket.
Mix it with nutes ... no special order, just throw it in.
I mix it in a liter container and get it all dissolved, then pour it in.

And, ph'ing chemicals are not that expensive ... use ph up and ph down. It's more stable. And, you prolly won't need both. Either your water needs adjusting UP or DOWN not usually both.

 

[Auggie]

Even worse today after 12 hours of darkness.

Yea, ok.
So ... we know it's not bugs. Right?
Cross that off the list.
That's a good thing, really.
(Start a Pest Program anyway).

What's left is
- over watering
- over feeding
- heat

IF you are sure it's not heat ... then water every other day with half doses of feed until things improve.

PS: Looking at those leaves, I don't see any burned tips or edges. I don't think she's over fed ... I think she's over watered.