UncleCannabis' Indoor Ganja Grove - Organic Soil - Sea of Green

[UncleCannabis]

Thanks for the directions WC. Much appreciated.

It seems that us Woodstock era kids caught the very tail end of what is now considered in pot circles as "the good old daze" or the pre-Reagan era. I wish I would have starting toking when I was 4 instead of 14.

Do you plan journal your Thai Stick grow in your moved to the completed journals section Oh No it's a Green Hole journal or will you be kicking off a new and slightly unimproved Green Hole journal sometime soon?
I'm horrible at and lack the time to keep up with more than a couple of journals, even my own my journal goes silent at times, but I'll try to seek out PotChimp's journal and check out his Thai Stick grow.

 

[Radogast]

First off thank you very much for posting Harvest, Drying & Curing. Having written a few epic posts, I appreciate you committing the time and sharing the knowledge to help us all enjoy tastier, healthier and well-cured harvests.

if anyone would like to share their tips and experiences or spill some closely held secrets please feel free to jump right on in and do so.

Peace, Love, & BBQ

Why sir, I do believe I will take you up on your offer

I have no closely held secrets. My experience is not long and vast as I am just now approaching my 2 year anniversary of growing. Doing lots of small harvests, about 10 in the last 6 months, I have gained experience in what works for me.


Harvest Timing

I like what you say about the selecting the harvest time based on pistil change and trichome changes. My wife prefers her Sativa dominant strains near the beginning of the harvest window (which I define as mostly cloudy) and the indica dominant strains near the end of the harvest window, (for me 10-15% amber.)

Check trichomes on the flowers - not the sugar leaves.

I prefer to check pistils and trichomes partway down the top colas or on a bud that is just below the top buds.

Foxtailing can result in buds that are fresh at the tips and points in the sides while fully ripe on the rest of the bud. Potency drops off if part of the bud gets over ripe. For me, it has not worked when I let the new growth on a foxtailing bud get fully ripe.

Pistil change varies from strain to strain, but as far as I have seen, they are never ready before at least half the pistils have changed.

Sometimes, I don't know why, trichomes will change SHAPE without changing color. Take a note of the trichome shape you like at a harvest you like. Then, on another grow, if you see the same trichome shape changes, it is time to harvest - even if the color has not changed.

For example, look at the trichomes in the bottom of this photo

While not exactly 10% clear and 10% amber, at the bottom of the photo the trichomes stalks are sagging and clumping together rather than standing tall and well spaced. In my opinion, the THC is degrading and it is time to harvest. At the top of the photo, the trichomes are clear and well formed - it is not yet time to harvest. The top of the photo is trichomes on a sugar leaf (not frosty enough.) The bottom of the photo is trichomes on the bud herself.

Missing trichome heads means you waited too long - but check another bud to make sure someone wasn't heavy handed and physically knocked the trichome heads off.



Drying

I agree with everything you said there

I am drying a small amount every month, so I thought seriously about setting up a dedicated drying room. I didn't.

I have dried in a 55 degree, humidity controlled, dark corner of my basement. I have dried in a 70-80 degree, humidity controlled, well-ventilated, well-lit area of my flowering room. I prefer the results in my flowering room - up above the lights but still getting lots of reflected light off the white plastic walls. The bud from the warmer, brighter room tastes better. I considered trying a drying hamper inside a fabric bag to reduce light, but that would reduce the air flow. Besides my weed tastes good ! I suspect good air flow is more important than light while drying.

I have never dried in 3-5 days. I usually dry until the branches have an audible snap. This may be 2 or 3 days extra, but it doesn't hurt. My dry time is usually in the 8-12 day range.

I bud wash for flavor. I have only met one person who could not taste the difference.
Organic marijuana tastes good. Organic, bud washed marijuana tastes better.

I trim wet. If the sugar leaves are loaded, I was before trimming. When frosty, trimming goes quick because I trim the fan leaves and leave the sugar leaves. My sugar leaves don't taste harsh, so why trim away all that potent smoke. If the sugar leaves did not get fully frosty, I wash first because trimming will take too long - maybe into the next day. I trim wet because trichomes come off when you handle dried bud. Check below the screen in your grinder, those are dried trichome parts broken apart while grinding. (If you are only drying 3-5 days until stalks sort of snap, this may not be an issue - I don't know. I dry until the branches actually snap.)


Curing

I store marijuana with Boveda 62 packs inside glass jars. I have never seen a hint of moisture vapor.

In my opinion, curing does not add much to the flavor. For me the change between one week dry and 6 months dry is subtle. I find the change between warm dried vs. cool dried or washed vs. unwashed to be more significant. My wife reported a flavor improvement between fresh harvested and well-cured in 2 cases. One of them was home grown Hawaiian Skunk. The other case was purchased Grand Daddy Purp.


If you disagree, please tell me. I want to learn new ideas, not protect my old ideas.

 

[UncleCannabis]

Hey there Rado.
Thanks for sharing your methods and experiences. Much appreciated brother!

When it comes to flavor I find that with some strains curing really brings out the flavor as time progresses, flavors that were not even present after 1 month of being jarred. With some other strains the flavor doesn't really change much at all and in some cases seems to degrade or have less pop after curing a few months. But in almost all cases I find that the smoothness of the smoke improves irregardless of which strain it may be. I'm not saying that this is fact or anything, just my personal experience.
For example, I have some Vanilla Kush and LSD that have been curing for a few months now and the flavors and smoothness of both have improved dramatically over time. They were both very flavorful after harvest but I found the LSD and Vanilla to both be oh so slightly harsh on the exhale.
After a few months in the jars I'm tasting a sweetness that wasn't present before and an overall more complete flavor profile in the LSD along with no signs of harshness at all on the exhale anymore.
Same goes for the Vanilla, no more hints of harshness on the exhale at all while the flavor profile has gone from "really, really nice" to something that is almost indescribably delicious and heavenly tasting.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experiences brother. It's all about giving back to the community. Puff, puff, pass brother.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Wow Uncle C you really nailed it with that comment, as I was born right around Woodstock time, and... well, you pretty much summed up the progression of how things went after that
PotChimp's journal is fairly bare bones compared to my sort of all over the place nattering style, and it should be pretty painless to get a sense of what he's been growing.
Whatever next journal I do will definitely focus on the sativas more as I love them, and the whole idea of landraces and cannabis history, more than anything else. But I am just a newbie grower, and whatever I do will probably be more of a 'fumbling through it' affair, with nattering, and with sativas. 'Slightly unimproved' as you put it.

Radogast I'm envious of your drying times. I think that makes a big difference. I've managed to get mine up to about a week now. With frequent absences, it's hard to properly tweak the system to perfection and I have to be very careful about mold so tend to err on the side of caution. The last thing I want to have happen after growing a plant for six months and harvesting and trimming it, is to have all the bud go moldy while I have my back turned. Ouch.

I do find that curing time greatly improves smell and flavour, in my experience.
I find it a bit similar to the wine aging process. I make a lot of fruit wine, as well as sometimes 'real' (grape) wine. Ten day old wine can taste great, in a certain sense, as the flavor of the fruit is so fresh and tasty. (Of course, at that point there is a lot of yeasty flavor so it's not really 'great'- but the fruit flavor is all there). After that the alcohol takes over more and it becomes more undrinkable. With aging, the fruit flavor starts to appear again.

With herb, I find the most intoxicating smell is the fresh flowers on the plant. After harvesting those aromas disappear for me for a while and things get more dank and chemical smelling. It seems to take a month for my herb to even begin coming back towards those pleasant smells, and some strains don't start showing those nice smells again for several months. 4-6 weeks seems to me to be kind of the beginning of it coming into it's own, and it continues to improve greatly from that point. At least that's been my experience with what I'm growing.

 

[santb]

I'm with you on the smell, Weasel.. Ripe on the plant is when they smell best!
This is all good info on the harvest process, and I'm happy to find I'm on the right track..
I can only add, with not much experience, that after washing, I put a fan directly on the buds, strong, for 4-6 hours to get every bit pf water out of all the nooks and crannies.. I'm lucky enough to have a shower recess where I can hang wet branches..
Should I not do this with the fan? What do you do Radogast..?

 

[UncleCannabis]

Hey there Santb. You're doing the right thing with your fan dry after bud washing. It's best to get the water to dry off of the buds and leaf matter as soon as possible after washing (without introducing heat).

In general cooler temps and/or higher RH will extend the dry time. Higher temps/lower RH will accelerate drying times.

Back when I was getting the hay taste I was drying in an outdoor shed with temps in the 80's and RH probably around 70 to 100% humidity. Surprisingly I never had any mold issues with such "off" conditions but I did end up with hay taste every time. I wasn't curing either. Once everything was dried it was trimmed then straight into freezer bags without any burping or anything afterward.

Rado,
I don't know that this is 100% true or not but I've always heard that temps above around 72ish degrees along with strong light levels, especially UV rays will degrade THC and other cannabanoids and flavanoids. If this is true then drying at temps above 72 F or exposure to bright LEDS during drying would not be what would be considered to be a good environment for drying. But....if you're getting good results drying in your flowering tent then I'd say keep on doin' whatcha' doin'.

WC,
I like your analogy comparing MJ curing to wine making. You hit the nail on the head there brother.

 

[Radogast]

Thanks for all the comments back.

Weasel Cracker - Your aging wine analogy is good, and what I would expect, but not what I personally experience. I am not the most discerning when it comes to cannabis, although I have very distinct taste preferences in aging and wine strains.

santb - The concensus on the Bud washing thread is that washed buds dry a little faster, so I assume that helps avoid mold too. I have a recirculating fan on in the flowering room and a second fan to cool the lights and room as needed.


Uncle Cannabis - I run about 78 degrees at 18" below the lights so I assume the upper part of the room where I dry is in the low 70s. I would continue to use the strong fan as you do now. My RH is usually 'too high' at 50-70%, right now it is 30-45%, but my hang drying time often happens when I add water to the room because I was running my soil on the dry side right before the harvest.


UncleCannabis, Weaselcracker - If you are a taste connossieur, I can't help but push you to try bud washing. My wife always debates between politeness and distaste when sharing the unwashed marijuana guests bring into the house. She usually finds it more pleasant to share her bud than to suffer through their bud.

 

[brightlight]

Wondering if you can answer this one... I'm away a lot as you know. I 'burp' the jars now and then but certainly not every day. 'Burping' kinda implies that there's some sort of off-gassing process happening. (?) if a jar is filled with dried bud and it's in the safe zone- I wonder whether or not the burping makes much difference? I always drop it down to under 60 RH over time, but certainly don't do it very methodically.

I've never checked RH but if you allow your herbs to dry out enough before jarring and sealing the danger of mold setting in more or less goes away as mold needs moisture to form. The curing process is essentially the off-gassing of moisture along with nasty tasting stuff like chlorophyll vapors as well as the maturation of the cannabanoids and flavanoids and all of the other noids and whatnot.

During the cure it's good to replace the stale and off-gas contaminated air with fresh air periodically with more frequent air replacement or burping done during the early stages of the curing. After the first week or two you can gradually taper off the frequency - ie 4 weeks after jarring burp once per month or every 6 to 8 weeks.

WC & Unc...you guys make some real good points. Like WC once I jar up I hardly burb. When dry enough to trim, goes into jars w/ Boveda. Figure it will finish the job if some moisture left or add back if I dried it too much. Like your mention of stale air Unc...hopefully I'm dipping into every jar often enough.

Hey there friends. I'd like your opinions on something if you don't mind.

There seems to be lots of mystery surrounding the history of Thai stick, what it actually was, and why it seemed to have suddenly disappeared around the mid to late 80's. I've read a couple of threads about Thai stick and there seems to be lots of interest in the subject but not much information available about it.
I don't claim to know all of the facts and details about the legendary Thai sticks but I was lucky enough - and unfortunately old enough - to have been able to purchase and enjoy some on a couple of occasions before it seemed to have disappeared but I also know someone that was not only living in Bangkok during the early 70's but also has intimate knowledge about much of the smuggling activities that went on during this time.
I'm fortunate enough to be very good friends with this gentleman and over the years he's told me first hand accounts of some of the stories and history surround the legendary Thai stick as well as stories about some of the key players that were involved in getting it from Thailand to the US.

Ok so where was I - sorry folks, the Cherry OG is hitting me in the forehead like a baseball right now causing me to loose my train of thought - oh yeah...your opinions.
Where on this site should I post a write up about Thai Stick? Should I post the write up in the strain reviews section or would there be a more suitable place to post this type of thread?
I'll be looking forward to suggestions from some of you who are more familiar with all of the nooks and crannies of 420mag.

Any coincidence on thoughts on Thai Stick & smoking the Cherry OG? No strain has kicked up old fading memory recall of what Thai high was like more than Cherry OG. Great stuff. I just started new book: Thai Stick..Surfers, Scammers & The Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade. Was going to take a pic of cover & post on my journal. By Peter Maguire & Mike Ritter. So far so good. I grew out my Thai Stick seeds in 80's, didn't know it was natural hermy & ended up w/ big batch of Thai x Mexican (seeds from $1600 lb., wanted fresh seeds so best I could get at the time. Here's to your Sunday gents....wish we could fire some up!

Thai Stick 1974

 

[Weaselcracker]

I wonder if those are some of Howard Marks' Bangkok connections you know, Uncle C Last I heard he was struggling with cancer and I haven't checked how he's doing. I hope he's ok. A lovely fellow.

Edit- Never mind- you probably wouldn't be able to answer that question. just thinking out loud...

 

[Bapple]

Hey Uncle C, I finally got here!

I also find that curing improves the quality and complexity of the smoke especially on the autos I've grown.

Your garden looks good

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'm hoping I didn't scare him off, spouting all that mushy stuff...

 

[Bapple]

I'm hoping I didn't scare him off, spouting all that mushy stuff...

Hey Weasel!

He did say he leaves his journal unattended from time to time.....

How's tricks?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeah he can probably handle a little mush. Good Bapple! The battle continues, anyway. Paradise under siege by big logging and fishing corporations as always....drawbacks of living outside the city I suppose. Harder to hide our heads in the sand...

Has spring planting started for you already?

 

[Bapple]

Yeah he can probably handle a little mush. Good Bapple! The battle continues, anyway. Paradise under siege by big logging and fishing corporations as always....drawbacks of living outside the city I suppose. Harder to hide our heads in the sand...

Has spring planting started for you already?

Started a bit earlier than planned.....but it's really a half - a*#ed experiment. 2 of the seeds came off my Blue Dream buds (actually in the end I found 4 seeds in total) and I figured I would not be too cut up if the grow does not do much; but on the plus side if it works out we really liked the BD smoke.

 

[santb]

Hoping all is well, Unk. Don't work too hard!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hope all's well Uncle C, and I really hope to chat with you again sometime.
I managed to get my hands on a nice little Martin, just so you know. I do see the light now, when it comes to Martin guitars, or at least this one. Kind of the standard I'm going to measure all other guitars against for the next while. Like the Ace Malawi is my new sativa standard.
Still don't like the Martin strings...

 

[David Bowman]

Hope all is well in your world.

Thanks for sharing this grow with us.

Please head over to the 420 Strain Reviews forum and post your smoke report there too.

I’m moving this to Completed Journals now.

Have you started a new grow you would like to share with us?

If so, please feel free to start a new journal here: Journals in Progress

You can use the Report Post feature found at the bottom left of every post and we'll move it for you right away.

Sending you lots of love and positive energy.

 

[KodiakKid]

Uncle, it will all be fine. Looking forward to connecting again, Uncle. Come on over to watch my second time. You might remember I lasted a long long time the first time around last season.