Undercurrent DWC
- Thread starter Wingman420
- Start date
Just took my iguana for a check up and the vet said she should live another 20-30 years.....she's gonna out live me!
TheHealthCoop
New Member
yeah i use em...
that's a 6xxl with 2k in magnum xxl's on top and 2 600s in the middle hanging vertically bare bulb style
In the middle of deciding between the purchase of a 16 unit turn key system UCDWC from "CC" or building unit. ? Would love to know your personal thoughts on this...16 site Unit, room walls would be 5' from each side and 9'high ceiling, chiller(SunLeaves Aqua Chill 1/2Hp), C02(Gen-2 LP), R/O Water FIlter, Inline Vortex V Series 14", AMOS D1 Atmosphere controller, 24,000BTU Aura System Air, 4 1000W Gavita Pro w/ Philips lamps (Horizontal or/ bare bulb vertical...Hmmm what am I missing?
Many Thanks for your time in response to a later post.
@TheHealthCoop,
I wouldnt ever buy a turn key that large. IMHO, buying a tiny pre-built for a new grower, for home use is fine. They'll learn plenty over the 1st couple of grows and if they choose to change and expand, once they've seen how it all works, most will build a system.
Building a system allows for your specific needs. Example being, in your above 16 site. As described, you're giving 5' from the sides (of the buckets I presume). However, you dont describe the actual space. Will you be able to get around and in between the plants to train them, defoliate, tie supports to heavy ass branches, trim of dying or unwanted branches, pest inspection, bulb replacements, etc, etc.
Will you get any side wall reflection? Doesnt sound possible with 5' from sides. What is you decide you want to change the configuration around a bit? How hard will that be for you with a pre-made?
4 x 1k lights? 4000 watts will cover roughly 80 sq ft. The "CC" system is built on a roughly 8'x9' footprint. That being said, one look at their images tells me you have no shot whatsoever being able to get into the area of the center four plants once they are 24" tall or so. As well, because they are so close together, you can't grow bushy girls. You'll just shade out everything that isnt in the top 10" or less.
The idea is fine, it will work using all of the items on your list. I would just set it up to allow for good healthy, beefy plants. You have the room. With this much room I would really work on the configuration of your setup. No need to cram them all in a tight space when you have the room and can afford to buy an over priced retail setup. You could easily apply these funds to a more efficient setup, add in some labor, and get 2-3 times the quality & quantity in end results.
I wouldnt ever buy a turn key that large. IMHO, buying a tiny pre-built for a new grower, for home use is fine. They'll learn plenty over the 1st couple of grows and if they choose to change and expand, once they've seen how it all works, most will build a system.
Building a system allows for your specific needs. Example being, in your above 16 site. As described, you're giving 5' from the sides (of the buckets I presume). However, you dont describe the actual space. Will you be able to get around and in between the plants to train them, defoliate, tie supports to heavy ass branches, trim of dying or unwanted branches, pest inspection, bulb replacements, etc, etc.
Will you get any side wall reflection? Doesnt sound possible with 5' from sides. What is you decide you want to change the configuration around a bit? How hard will that be for you with a pre-made?
4 x 1k lights? 4000 watts will cover roughly 80 sq ft. The "CC" system is built on a roughly 8'x9' footprint. That being said, one look at their images tells me you have no shot whatsoever being able to get into the area of the center four plants once they are 24" tall or so. As well, because they are so close together, you can't grow bushy girls. You'll just shade out everything that isnt in the top 10" or less.
The idea is fine, it will work using all of the items on your list. I would just set it up to allow for good healthy, beefy plants. You have the room. With this much room I would really work on the configuration of your setup. No need to cram them all in a tight space when you have the room and can afford to buy an over priced retail setup. You could easily apply these funds to a more efficient setup, add in some labor, and get 2-3 times the quality & quantity in end results.
TheHealthCoop
New Member
Hey Bassman59,
Thanks so much for your time in responding to my question. I appreciate being a sponge of learning in the new endeavor from my usual Aero fog to UC RDWC. I can build out wall specs to be any size inside a 1000SF warehouse studio. I'm considering creating a sealed room environment with 1x3 studs and insulation, sealed with plastic and then covered in orca grow film(4.5x100, allows coverage of 4x8 slats, then orca taped to seal seams). A self Build DIY UC RDWC could afford extra to get a T5 Bad Boy for Veg. maybe another light config( open to suggestions) What would be your spacing on a 16site set up, while trying to stay inside of 9-10 week rotation? I will def take your advice on a DIY build, I'm extremely good at DIY, I just DIY so much in my other craft/lol. Basically, I just want to make this room great and efficient the first time for further and future grows. Planning for success is the thing I find most rewarding about the community when the rest of the world is unknowingly perfect, in their daily practice of planning for failure.
Again I appreciate your time, and who ever else may respond to my questions, I sooo look forward to the change over of systems and new project and I really look forward to sharing detailed journal notes.
I have made a personal projection to build out a room and begin very very soon.
Thanks so much for your time in responding to my question. I appreciate being a sponge of learning in the new endeavor from my usual Aero fog to UC RDWC. I can build out wall specs to be any size inside a 1000SF warehouse studio. I'm considering creating a sealed room environment with 1x3 studs and insulation, sealed with plastic and then covered in orca grow film(4.5x100, allows coverage of 4x8 slats, then orca taped to seal seams). A self Build DIY UC RDWC could afford extra to get a T5 Bad Boy for Veg. maybe another light config( open to suggestions) What would be your spacing on a 16site set up, while trying to stay inside of 9-10 week rotation? I will def take your advice on a DIY build, I'm extremely good at DIY, I just DIY so much in my other craft/lol. Basically, I just want to make this room great and efficient the first time for further and future grows. Planning for success is the thing I find most rewarding about the community when the rest of the world is unknowingly perfect, in their daily practice of planning for failure.
Again I appreciate your time, and who ever else may respond to my questions, I sooo look forward to the change over of systems and new project and I really look forward to sharing detailed journal notes.
I have made a personal projection to build out a room and begin very very soon.
@thc,
You're already making progress! Just putting it out there you're coming up with thoughts.
Ok, so we have 1000sf to work with. You want 9-10 week rotations. You can self build each space.
Before going to much into space for each room (veg, bloom, clones etc) lets get a better idea of what you want out of the grow.
1. Are we presuming the 9-10 week rotation is the flowering period? If this period includes veg time and a short flowering strain of 7-8 weeks then we know you're going to grow small plants and this changes veg room requirements.
2. How big do you want these plants to be at harvest? This will determine how you will veg them not only in terms of time period but methods.
3. Will each grow be one strain only? This will mean far fewer variances to size, reaction to methods, strain "a" far out-stretching strain "b" etc. (my opinion is to keep each grow one strain, but you can always change each batch to a different strain).
4. Are you familiar with using Defoliation as a hi-yield technique? and if so is this a method you'll use? (this will determine how big & wide each plant will be and give a better idea of area needed and lighting requirements).
5. Where will drying & curing be done? You'll need an area for that. Will you trim and rack dry all buds or hang dry branches or entire plants? It doesn't have to be an exclusive area to dry. It can be one of the grow rooms. Just plan accordingly.
6. Have you made plans to veg to a certain height or rough idea of veg size before flipping? This will help determine how much room and lighting is needed for veg room. Off hand when you mention a T5 it sounds like only one light. Vegging 16 plants under one T5, even if an 8 lamp unit, means they will be small, in smaller pots or medium, and an overall smaller grow before flipping. Are you willing to run 2 RDWC spaces of the same size? One to veg out, then flip. The other starts veg about the time you flip. Using same methods. Or you could even go with 3 spaces. This means harvesting more often but each harvest is smaller. Think about it.
Some suggestions:
Locate a good inexpensive supply of square 8 gallon buckets like the "CC" system uses. You can buy all the netpot lids from CC cheaply enough, but imo the buckets are way too expensive at $23-33 a piece. You can probably find the same buckets for $12-15 each. However, if you go with 5 gal buckets you can probably get them for $5 each or less. I have a source for special made washers to seal each bucket at it's coupling if you choose not to use the uniseals type setup. Uniseals are good but sometimes a muscle man pain in the ass to set up a multi site at at specific center to center lengths. A removable couple system could be useful to change configuration if needed.
I'm getting ready for work and about to leave. I'll have to leave it with those thoughts till later.
After you've thought about it some, throw out some more details and maybe we can come up with some good ideas. Also, if you are on a specific tight budget, you may want to keep that in mind. Initial cost is something to think about. Whats expensive for one guy may not be for you. But something to keep in mind.
You're already making progress! Just putting it out there you're coming up with thoughts.
Ok, so we have 1000sf to work with. You want 9-10 week rotations. You can self build each space.
Before going to much into space for each room (veg, bloom, clones etc) lets get a better idea of what you want out of the grow.
1. Are we presuming the 9-10 week rotation is the flowering period? If this period includes veg time and a short flowering strain of 7-8 weeks then we know you're going to grow small plants and this changes veg room requirements.
2. How big do you want these plants to be at harvest? This will determine how you will veg them not only in terms of time period but methods.
3. Will each grow be one strain only? This will mean far fewer variances to size, reaction to methods, strain "a" far out-stretching strain "b" etc. (my opinion is to keep each grow one strain, but you can always change each batch to a different strain).
4. Are you familiar with using Defoliation as a hi-yield technique? and if so is this a method you'll use? (this will determine how big & wide each plant will be and give a better idea of area needed and lighting requirements).
5. Where will drying & curing be done? You'll need an area for that. Will you trim and rack dry all buds or hang dry branches or entire plants? It doesn't have to be an exclusive area to dry. It can be one of the grow rooms. Just plan accordingly.
6. Have you made plans to veg to a certain height or rough idea of veg size before flipping? This will help determine how much room and lighting is needed for veg room. Off hand when you mention a T5 it sounds like only one light. Vegging 16 plants under one T5, even if an 8 lamp unit, means they will be small, in smaller pots or medium, and an overall smaller grow before flipping. Are you willing to run 2 RDWC spaces of the same size? One to veg out, then flip. The other starts veg about the time you flip. Using same methods. Or you could even go with 3 spaces. This means harvesting more often but each harvest is smaller. Think about it.
Some suggestions:
Locate a good inexpensive supply of square 8 gallon buckets like the "CC" system uses. You can buy all the netpot lids from CC cheaply enough, but imo the buckets are way too expensive at $23-33 a piece. You can probably find the same buckets for $12-15 each. However, if you go with 5 gal buckets you can probably get them for $5 each or less. I have a source for special made washers to seal each bucket at it's coupling if you choose not to use the uniseals type setup. Uniseals are good but sometimes a muscle man pain in the ass to set up a multi site at at specific center to center lengths. A removable couple system could be useful to change configuration if needed.
I'm getting ready for work and about to leave. I'll have to leave it with those thoughts till later.
After you've thought about it some, throw out some more details and maybe we can come up with some good ideas. Also, if you are on a specific tight budget, you may want to keep that in mind. Initial cost is something to think about. Whats expensive for one guy may not be for you. But something to keep in mind.
TheHealthCoop
New Member
Since our last Exchange I took some of your words to heart on the size and space. As well as a modification on some of the suplies. Im thinking each 8 gallon site is 24" from center from one another at 4 per row. That's about a 4x 4 configuration allowing each 1000w Hps to be center of 4 plants and cover 4'x4'. I will build walls to be 3' from the plants on outer edge center giving some side room, as well as personal walk around and maintenance room. This will make the rooms 12x12x9 for 144sf@1296cf room.
Based on that 1296cf/3 = 432cfm to carbon scrub the room with I figure a 12" Vortex V Series 2050cfm inline( I doubled up on the cfm to allow for later expansion of the room to a 12x24. for it to pull out)
I added 1140 Grow op Solar Wind 12" inline to aid in the fresh air intake into the room with that Vortex to pull out through the carbon scrubber.
(4) 16" x-treme orbital rotating fans on the walls.
12", 1700cfm Carbon scrubber
100 pint dehumidifier
1/2hp water chiller
and the Gen-2 LP Co2 Generator , with an emergency 12kg Flame Defender
Ill Start with only 2 simular strains. One or both may be from Available clones, Still possible from feminized(?) seeds / Maybe.
I figured the walls to be only 3 feet from the plant sides for reflectivity and use tomato trellises and a SCROG, topping bottum trimming to maximize yield.
I 'll build 2 tuff box cloners with ordered Neoprin inserts and use that 4x8 T5 to Clone and add a 400w to 600w Mh to Veg
2week clone, 4 week veg, 9-10 week flower.
After first cull, expand room and confugure a perpetual rdwc rotation schedule. Working on the math and the perpetual harvest rotation on a rdwc system is what im doodling with now in addition to this proposed 12x12x9 room.
With everything dialied in im going for a minimum 1/1 ratio cull on each site ( some may say ambitious but its my personal desired minimum.
Again as always Thank you for your response and time. TTYL
Based on that 1296cf/3 = 432cfm to carbon scrub the room with I figure a 12" Vortex V Series 2050cfm inline( I doubled up on the cfm to allow for later expansion of the room to a 12x24. for it to pull out)
I added 1140 Grow op Solar Wind 12" inline to aid in the fresh air intake into the room with that Vortex to pull out through the carbon scrubber.
(4) 16" x-treme orbital rotating fans on the walls.
12", 1700cfm Carbon scrubber
100 pint dehumidifier
1/2hp water chiller
and the Gen-2 LP Co2 Generator , with an emergency 12kg Flame Defender
Ill Start with only 2 simular strains. One or both may be from Available clones, Still possible from feminized(?) seeds / Maybe.
I figured the walls to be only 3 feet from the plant sides for reflectivity and use tomato trellises and a SCROG, topping bottum trimming to maximize yield.
I 'll build 2 tuff box cloners with ordered Neoprin inserts and use that 4x8 T5 to Clone and add a 400w to 600w Mh to Veg
2week clone, 4 week veg, 9-10 week flower.
After first cull, expand room and confugure a perpetual rdwc rotation schedule. Working on the math and the perpetual harvest rotation on a rdwc system is what im doodling with now in addition to this proposed 12x12x9 room.
With everything dialied in im going for a minimum 1/1 ratio cull on each site ( some may say ambitious but its my personal desired minimum.
Again as always Thank you for your response and time. TTYL
You might want to go 32" centering. And maybe allow room to walk between the two middle rows so you can get to the insides of those girls to bend, defoliate, set ties, etc. going on 24" centers only allows the plants to grow 12" from center before they are touching and thus they will also be shading each others lower middle-lower sections.
In a perfect world, for me, I would make that room 12x12x10. 32" centers, 12 plants, grow em fat. But I'm biased to a controversial hi defoliation technique too. I'd run probably 6 week veg in the end. Flipping on harvest of the other room, and starting clones 2-5 days before flip and have a small clone area.
You could make the veg room smaller. By about 1/2 more or less, and just transfer each girl into the flower room by lifting it up from the bucket lid and placing in the flower room buckets. Veg period is really important though as it allows you to shape, bend, defoliate, and set them up to the size you want before your 2x or 3x stretch (strain dependent) to achieve the end size you want.
All of your other equipment ideas look good.
Once you get to 50 posts you can PM people. If you run a journal as you start doing this I'd love to see it. Shoot me a pm then.
Welcome to 420mag and much success to you helping others with the meds they need.
In a perfect world, for me, I would make that room 12x12x10. 32" centers, 12 plants, grow em fat. But I'm biased to a controversial hi defoliation technique too. I'd run probably 6 week veg in the end. Flipping on harvest of the other room, and starting clones 2-5 days before flip and have a small clone area.
You could make the veg room smaller. By about 1/2 more or less, and just transfer each girl into the flower room by lifting it up from the bucket lid and placing in the flower room buckets. Veg period is really important though as it allows you to shape, bend, defoliate, and set them up to the size you want before your 2x or 3x stretch (strain dependent) to achieve the end size you want.
All of your other equipment ideas look good.
Once you get to 50 posts you can PM people. If you run a journal as you start doing this I'd love to see it. Shoot me a pm then.
Welcome to 420mag and much success to you helping others with the meds they need.
I totally agree, I have built my own RDWC system with 5 gal buckets, pumping all nutes from a control bucket to the bottom of each of the 4 other buckets, with a free flowing upper return to control bucket that has the pump. I have run a complete grow with out ever changing the nutes, and getting aprox .8grams per watt with 600w leds.
