Verb’s DIY Mini 1 Gallon DWC, Tangerine Dream Auto, Mainlining Experiment

[Roy Growin]

Hi Verb - just finishing some autos while vegging a big 'un, potting up and staking it out today
Will update journo when done
I've tried TD twice and it went tits up both times with streeeeeeetch so interested to see how yours do
Cool DIY job mate, I'd like to try something similar one day - when I've run out of coco...

 

[HappyHazmat88]

Always blame the weed

Bada duh duh dada because I got hiiiggghhhhh... Lol

 

[HappyHazmat88]

Hey @Verbalist cool set up...I am very unfamiliar with what your doing but I'm always down for a neat experiment . Great job so far I'ma follow along.

 

[Tokin Roll]

Thanks for the tag @Verbalist

I will be following along if you don't mind.

Stay safe, and grow well my friend,

Tok..

Oh yaa, I made it, not the first page but under 20.

edit: spellcheck does not understand me.

 

[Verbalist]

Hi Verb - just finishing some autos while vegging a big 'un, potting up and staking it out today
Will update journo when done
I've tried TD twice and it went tits up both times with streeeeeeetch so interested to see how yours do
Cool DIY job mate, I'd like to try something similar one day - when I've run out of coco...

Uh what do we have on menu?
And ye Ive heard and seen journals how TD autos stretching maad while pre-flowering. That was one reason why I chose to main-line her so prob don’t have to worry about outgrowing.

And tbh the DIY mini bubbler was also part of the plan to keep her nice and squat cabinet veggie.

I'd like to try something similar one day - when I've run out of coco...

I’d definitely recommend hydro! Youve grown sucha cool and massive plants in coco and do I remember right that you were using small containers like 2-5L ones?

Hey @Verbalist cool set up...I am very unfamiliar with what your doing but I'm always down for a neat experiment . Great job so far I'ma follow along.

Hello @HappyHazmat88 great to see you around! Heh, I’m not either 100% sure what am I doing, but got a good hunch about it First time Main-Lining and creating manifolds. So I’m still calling this an experimental growth and blaming the weed if something goes wrong.
…Just because of this:

Bada duh duh dada because I got hiiiggghhhhh... Lol

Thanks for the tag @Verbalist

I will be following along if you don't mind.

Hey Tok glad you found here! Good to have one more dwc expert on the board

edit: spellcheck does not understand me

When it comes down to this 4n journal you better watch the auto correction, in before it spills out finnish words


And before the lights go off took couple pics of her. Looks like she didn’t really give two fugs about rippin 90% of foliage off from her. I was expecting that she might look half dead next couple days.

Left cots there for lols

Then the next step would be to create the manifold prob topping the new mains after 2nd node.


Thanks for stoppin and I appreciate all the comments and feedback youve left

 

[Roy Growin]

Uh what do we have on menu?
And ye Ive heard and seen journals how TD autos stretching maad while pre-flowering. That was one reason why I chose to main-line her so prob don’t have to worry about outgrowing.

And tbh the DIY mini bubbler was also part of the plan to keep her nice and squat cabinet veggie.

I’d definitely recommend hydro! Youve grown sucha cool and massive plants in coco and do I remember right that you were using small containers like 2-5L ones?



Hello @HappyHazmat88 great to see you around! Heh, I’m not either 100% sure what am I doing, but got a good hunch about it First time Main-Lining and creating manifolds. So I’m still calling this an experimental growth and blaming the weed if something goes wrong.
…Just because of this:





Hey Tok glad you found here! Good to have one more dwc expert on the board

When it comes down to this 4n journal you better watch the auto correction, in before it spills out finnish words


And before the lights go off took couple pics of her. Looks like she didn’t really give two fugs about rippin 90% of foliage off from her. I was expecting that she might look half dead next couple days.

Left cots there for lols

Then the next step would be to create the manifold prob topping the new mains after 2nd node.


Thanks for stoppin and I appreciate all the comments and feedback youve left

Hey Verb - yeah, 3L autos, 5L photos, coco - sometimes two per pot
Just updated journo if you wanna check it out, you'd be welcome aboard
It's now in a 10L and staked out starfish stylie for flower

 

[StoneOtter]

spellcheck does not understand me.

 

[Roy Growin]

The guy that invented spellcheck died recently
His funfair is on turd day

 

[Verbalist]

1/22 Journal update


Hello!
So its been almost a week since did the first main-lining. TD is 19 days old now and looks like gotta wait at least 10 to 14 days before creating any manifolds.

Don’t know why the fan leaves having lil sad and droopy look for past two days.

Otherwise I think shes growing happy. Root mass being like super big for 19 days old plant. Main reason for that might be the small 4" net cup. Hopefully 4" net cup ”anchors” her enough when the stretch phase begins.
And the lid is kinda flimsy and weak plastic, so don’t know how does that hold when she gets bigger.

Current reservoir EC: 1.1 / TDS: 550ppm

Couple pics from day 18-19:

CD14B7FC-51F2-4C2F-B028-8E8FAA9349D5.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022
• main-lining tangerine dream auto

Tangerine Dream auto
1/22/2022
Day 19

3F667345-F112-4D86-A237-F235CCC53951.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022

TD auto
1/21 - Day 18
Main-Line & new mains

CF775B37-72B2-41C0-8099-D51D9739584E.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022
• main-line

Tangerine Dream auto
1/21 - Day 18

I might have to move her inside the tent for better control of VPD and air circulating.

PS. Any1 having experince with @Remo Nutrients ? Found out VeloKelp has this natural PGRs on their kelp extract - which would inhibit the stretch for example.
Their concentrates and recommendations are pretty mild (could be good for hydro) and most of the micros are in chelated form.

Thanks for poppin in
I’ll continue my cozy-lazy saturday. Any1 else here watching netflix series called Ozark? The 4th seson is out now and its mad fun to watch stoned.

 

[Rexer]

1/22 Journal update


Hello!
So its been almost a week since did the first main-lining. TD is 19 days old now and looks like gotta wait at least 10 to 14 days before creating any manifolds.

Don’t know why the fan leaves having lil sad and droopy look for past two days.

Otherwise I think shes growing happy. Root mass being like super big for 19 days old plant. Main reason for that might be the small 4" net cup. Hopefully 4" net cup ”anchors” her enough when the stretch phase begins.
And the lid is kinda flimsy and weak plastic, so don’t know how does that hold when she gets bigger.

Current reservoir EC: 1.1 / TDS: 550ppm

Couple pics from day 18-19:

CD14B7FC-51F2-4C2F-B028-8E8FAA9349D5.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022
• main-lining tangerine dream auto

Tangerine Dream auto
1/22/2022
Day 19

3F667345-F112-4D86-A237-F235CCC53951.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022

TD auto
1/21 - Day 18
Main-Line & new mains

CF775B37-72B2-41C0-8099-D51D9739584E.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022
• main-line

Tangerine Dream auto
1/21 - Day 18

I might have to move her inside the tent for better control of VPD and air circulating.

PS. Any1 having experince with @Remo Nutrients ? Found out VeloKelp has this natural PGRs on their kelp extract - which would inhibit the stretch for example.
Their concentrates and recommendations are pretty mild (could be good for hydro) and most of the micros are in chelated form.

Thanks for poppin in
I’ll continue my cozy-lazy saturday. Any1 else here watching netflix series called Ozark? The 4th seson is out now and its mad fun to watch stoned.

I've eyed that velvo kelp for a bit now. Kelp done correctly is a great additive, I usually use Green Planet. But Remo is a sponsor, so I will be trying it at one point (this summer maybe?).

 

[Verbalist]

I've eyed that velvo kelp for a bit now. Kelp done correctly is a great additive, I usually use Green Planet. But Remo is a sponsor, so I will be trying it at one point (this summer maybe?).

Yup definitely if youre looking for a short and bushy plant. Some kelp works as a natural plant growth regulator. I belive that Kelp being called ”Ascophyllum Nodosum” - Velokelp has 0.97% of it. Also this particular Kelp promotes the new axillary growth (aka bud sites as pre-flowering starts).
Velokelp label:

• Kokonaistyppi (N) 1 %, ammoniumtyppi 0,6%, nitraattityppi 0,4%
• Fosfori (P2O5) 1%
• Kalium (K2O) 1%
• Humushapot 0,79% (Leonardite)
• Merileväekstrakti 1,3% (Macrocystic Intergrifolia)
• Merileväekstrakti 0,97% (Ascophyllum Nodosum)

Its in finn but I guess you got it

 

[StoneOtter]

1/22 Journal update


Hello!
So its been almost a week since did the first main-lining. TD is 19 days old now and looks like gotta wait at least 10 to 14 days before creating any manifolds.

Don’t know why the fan leaves having lil sad and droopy look for past two days.

Otherwise I think shes growing happy. Root mass being like super big for 19 days old plant. Main reason for that might be the small 4" net cup. Hopefully 4" net cup ”anchors” her enough when the stretch phase begins.
And the lid is kinda flimsy and weak plastic, so don’t know how does that hold when she gets bigger.

Current reservoir EC: 1.1 / TDS: 550ppm

Couple pics from day 18-19:

CD14B7FC-51F2-4C2F-B028-8E8FAA9349D5.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022
• main-lining tangerine dream auto

Tangerine Dream auto
1/22/2022
Day 19

3F667345-F112-4D86-A237-F235CCC53951.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022

TD auto
1/21 - Day 18
Main-Line & new mains

CF775B37-72B2-41C0-8099-D51D9739584E.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 22, 2022
• main-line

Tangerine Dream auto
1/21 - Day 18

I might have to move her inside the tent for better control of VPD and air circulating.

PS. Any1 having experince with @Remo Nutrients ? Found out VeloKelp has this natural PGRs on their kelp extract - which would inhibit the stretch for example.
Their concentrates and recommendations are pretty mild (could be good for hydro) and most of the micros are in chelated form.

Thanks for poppin in
I’ll continue my cozy-lazy saturday. Any1 else here watching netflix series called Ozark? The 4th seson is out now and its mad fun to watch stoned.

My BIL is using Remo in soil per their directions perfectly. I don't know about hydro application.
We just finished Ozark's 3'rd season last week! How lucky for us! Craziness! Can't wait!

 

[Rexer]

Yup definitely if youre looking for a short and bushy plant. Some kelp works as a natural plant growth regulator. I belive that Kelp being called ”Ascophyllum Nodosum” - Velokelp has 0.97% of it. Also this particular Kelp promotes the new axillary growth (aka bud sites as pre-flowering starts).
Velokelp label:

• Kokonaistyppi (N) 1 %, ammoniumtyppi 0,6%, nitraattityppi 0,4%
• Fosfori (P2O5) 1%
• Kalium (K2O) 1%
• Humushapot 0,79% (Leonardite)
• Merileväekstrakti 1,3% (Macrocystic Intergrifolia)
• Merileväekstrakti 0,97% (Ascophyllum Nodosum)

Its in finn but I guess you got it

See, I had been under the opposite assumption, that kelp (especially cold pressed) was a biostimulant.




by Manic Botanix (no surprise
KELPS – Quality, Types, Plant Species, Genetics, and Optimal Usage Rates and Times



Not all kelp products are of equal quality. For instance, it is generally asserted that powder/granular kelps are of inferior quality to liquid kelps (particularly cold pressed liquid products) due to the production process where dry products are dehydrated using caustic bases under high temperature and high pressure which disintegrates the kelp, removing some of the goodness. However, some extremely good dry products are also available such as Acadian™ (Ascophyllum nodosum) which is sourced and produced in Nova Scotia, Canada. For instance, in trials conducted in California on tomato cultivars, Acadian extracts indicated a range of beneficial responses from 10 to 50 percent increases in average fruit weight, a greater than 20 percent increase in total fruit number, a 50 percent increase in marketable yield, and a 30 percent increase in marketable fruit number. Slight increases in fruit diameter, average fruit weight, and brix were also found.12



Another factor that that will influence quality are kelp species and where the kelp comes from. For instance, kelps are known bioaccumulators of heavy metals and kelps deriving from polluted oceans can have high heavy metal content. These heavy metals can prove detrimental to plant health and be uptaken by the plant, thus entering the food chain.



Additionally, different kelp types possess different biostimulant qualities.



For instance, Ascophyllum nodosum (eg. Acadian), which has a high cytokinin to low auxin ratio, can prove superb for enhancing flower growth (size, firmness, and weight), while a high auxin to low cytokinin ratio kelp (eg. Kelpak which is produced using Ecklonia maxima) may prove detrimental when used in early flower due to high levels of auxins contributing to apical dominance/stretch and cell elongation (traits that are not desirable during the first 2-3 weeks of the flower cycle – or the “stretch phase” as it has become known).



Crop type plays an important role where kelps are concerned. For instance, an Ascophyllum nodosum based product (GOËMAR BM 86) was shown to reduce fruit firmness in two cultivars of strawberry11, while the same product was shown to increase firmness in apples in an earlier study.13



Similarly, studies have also shown that individual cultivars of the same species may respond differently to treatments of seaweed extracts. For example, the same kelp type may improve the yield of one cultivar of potato but not another grown under the same conditions. 14



Additionally, some kelp products are very effective biostimulants when used at the right times, and at the right levels, but may prove detrimental, or provide less benefits when used at too high or too low levels.



Therefore, kelp type, plant type, genetics, product quality, time of use, and usage rates all play an important role in outcomes.



Again, to repeat a point, let me stress something re the use of organics in hydroponic growing systems. It is important to note that where hydroponics is concerned, particularly water based systems (e.g. NFT, deep tank, and aeroponics) it’s important not to overdo it with organic matter or additives. In adding too much organics into the hydro system the proliferation of unwanted microbial life may potentially rob oxygen from the root zone creating a situation where roots are suffocated and pathogenic microbe numbers explode under oxygen starved conditions. This situation is far less pronounced in growing systems that utilize organic media (e.g. soil or coco substrate).



Leading to my next point…. Foliar feeding. (following page)



1) I. J. CROUCH’, M. T. SMITH, J. VAN STADEN, M.J. LEWIS and G. V. HOAD (1991) Identification of Auxins in a Commercial Seaweed Concentrate

2) D. V. Robertson-Andersson, D. Leitao, J. J. Bolton, R. J. Anderson, A. Njobeni and K. Ruck (2006) Can Kelp Extract (KELPAK) be Useful in Seaweed Mariculture

3) Wajahatullah Khan, Usha P. Rayirath, Sowmyalakshmi Subramanian

Mundaya N. Jithesh, Prasanth Rayorath, D. Mark Hodges, Alan T. Critchley, James S. Craigie , Jeff Norrie, Balakrishan Prithiviraj (2008) Seaweed Extracts as Biostimulants

of Plant Growth and Development

4) Wajahatullah Khan, Usha P. Rayirath, Sowmyalakshmi Subramanian

Mundaya N. Jithesh, Prasanth Rayorath, D. Mark Hodges, Alan T. Critchley, James S. Craigie , Jeff Norrie, Balakrishan Prithiviraj (2008) Seaweed Extracts as Biostimulants

of Plant Growth and Development

5) Crouch IJ, van Staden J (1991) Evidence for rooting factors in a seaweed concentrate prepared from Ecklonia maxima.

6) C.M, Steveni, J. Norrington-Davies and S. D. Hankins (1992) Effect of seaweed concentrate on hydroponically grown spring barley

7) Wajahatullah Khan, Usha P. Rayirath, Sowmyalakshmi Subramanian

Mundaya N. Jithesh, Prasanth Rayorath, D. Mark Hodges, Alan T. Critchley, James S. Craigie , Jeff Norrie, Balakrishan Prithiviraj (2008) Seaweed Extracts as Biostimulants

of Plant Growth and Development

8) W.A. Stirk, O. Novák, M. Strnad and J. van Staden (2003) Cytokinins in macroalgae

9) W. A. Stirk, G. D. Arthur, A. F. Lourens, O. Novák, M. Strnad and J. van Staden (2004) Changes in cytokinin and auxin concentrations in seaweed concentrates when stored at an elevated temperature

10) J. van Staden, S. J. Upfold & F. E. Drewes (1994) Effect of seaweed concentrate on growth and development of the marigold Tagetes patula

11) Agnieszka Masny , Alina Basaka and Edward Zurawicz (2004) EFFECTS OF FOLIAR APPLICATIONS OF KELPAK SL AND GOËMAR BM 86 PREPARATIONS ON YIELD AND FRUIT QUALITY IN TWO STRAWBERRY CULTIVARS

12) J. Norrie PhD (2000) Using Ascophyllum Marine Plant Extracts in Commercial Tomato Production

13) Szwonek E. 2003. GOËMAR BM 86 – wyciąg nawozowy z alg morskich.

14) McHugh, D.J., Lawrence, T. (ed.), 2003. A guide to the seaweed industry. FAO Fisheries Technical Paper 441.



Edit- after re-reading a few times, I think I see where your going.

 

[Verbalist]

My BIL is using Remo in soil per their directions perfectly. I don't know about hydro application.
We just finished Ozark's 3'rd season last week! How lucky for us! Craziness! Can't wait!

Ye I remember saw a pic or couple that you posted of your BIL growings! Remos whole selection is sensible. I’d maybe give it a shot.

And if you like the series, then the 4th season is must. Its a blast! Isn’t it available in US netflix yet?

See, I had been under the opposite assumption, that kelp (especially cold pressed) was a biostimulant.




by Manic Botanix (no surprise

Manic Botanix providing very accurate info especially in relation to hydro cultivation.
And I haven’t actually studied about the Kelp (yet). Ive been reading forums and some pages regarding cannabis and kelp relationship. So if I have been livin in false knowledge I apologize the confusion.

But I understood this botanix article that Ascophyllum nodosum (which was included in VeloKelp 0.97%) is low in auxins and high in cytokinin should work as a natural PGR in right amounts and inhibit the stretch and stem elongation. And as I said:

Also this particular Kelp promotes the new axillary growth (aka bud sites as pre-flowering starts).

I understood that basicly means the same:

can prove superb for enhancing flower growth (size, firmness, and weight)

Then as he mentions when its opposite:

while a high auxin to low cytokinin ratio kelp (eg. Kelpak which is produced using Ecklonia maxima) may prove detrimental when used in early flower due to high levels of auxins contributing to apical dominance/stretch and cell elongation

High auxins promotes the elongation. Or actually ”may”. But would it have been said/mentioned if there were no stronger assumption about it?

I can be totally wrong about it But thats how Ive understood it so far. Guess could take couple pages from google to read about the subject.

But then back to the start, as you said:

See, I had been under the opposite assumption, that kelp (especially cold pressed) was a biostimulant.

Thats also true. But if kelps high in auxins are classified more as a biostimulants?



And then greetings from the cabinet at day 20.
TD starting to take more noticable growth spurts. Slight N excess visible on leaves as they hook down. I’ll dilude or change her res today for about 60ppm N then. Current N ppm is ”high as” 90ppm. Seem to be too much for 20 days old plant

 

[StoneOtter]

And if you like the series, then the 4th season is must. Its a blast! Isn’t it available in US netflix yet?

It opened up this past Friday just in time for us!

 

[Verbalist]

1/27 Journal update


Howdy 420 & growers!
TD auto showed sex/first pistils 1/26/2022, 23 days old!

Having sucha small reservoir might turn into a problem later. She consumes already quite amounts of nutrients which makes the water pH swing down to toxic readings (4.4-4.9pH ) in no time as the nutrients pH stabilizers are gone. Having about 2L of solution in the bucket and looks like Ive to change it every two days.
Considering 10L (~2.5gallon) bucket as the stretch phase begins.

Otherwise shes growing happy and looks like shes getting over the little N excess or tox.

Haven’t cut any manifolds yet, but as she already showed the first pistils which means the stretch and pre-flowering will begin soon. I might just let her grow two mains and try to LST the longest branches for smaller colas.
Also, VeloKelp is needed before the stretch begins - I wanna test it out so bad does it inhibit the initial lateral shoot elongation. OR then it might work as a biostimulator and I get hella stretchy plant

No more yaadayada heres couple pics from day 22-24:

6EEE7837-17DB-4679-96BD-A94574E274E6.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022
• tangerine dream auto

Tangerine Dream auto
1/25
Day 22
Week 4

48706428-D4C6-4FC2-8678-F4DBA09730F1.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022

Tangerine Dream auto
1/25
Day 22

Day 23 first pistils:

093A5A18-A4FA-4CFB-9676-DB39A4FC6CDA.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022

Tangerine Dream auto
1/26 - Day 23
*First sign of sex*

Day 24:

627835B1-FA1E-46B7-BABE-D1EEE39E44BA.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022

Tangerine Dream auto
1/27
Day 24 above ground
Week 4

E706E2FD-AF70-47B7-AF57-724313DC9650.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022
• barney's farm tangerine dream auto

Tangerine Dream auto
1/27
Day 24

Thanks for stoppin by. I appreciate it.
Stay warm and medicated!


- Verb

 

[Bill284]

1/27 Journal update


Howdy 420 & growers!
TD auto showed sex/first pistils 1/26/2022, 23 days old!

Having sucha small reservoir might turn into a problem later. She consumes already quite amounts of nutrients which makes the water pH swing down to toxic readings (4.4-4.9pH ) in no time as the nutrients pH stabilizers are gone. Having about 2L of solution in the bucket and looks like Ive to change it every two days.
Considering 10L (~2.5gallon) bucket as the stretch phase begins.

Otherwise shes growing happy and looks like shes getting over the little N excess or tox.

Haven’t cut any manifolds yet, but as she already showed the first pistils which means the stretch and pre-flowering will begin soon. I might just let her grow two mains and try to LST the longest branches for smaller colas.
Also, VeloKelp is needed before the stretch begins - I wanna test it out so bad does it inhibit the initial lateral shoot elongation. OR then it might work as a biostimulator and I get hella stretchy plant

No more yaadayada heres couple pics from day 22-24:

6EEE7837-17DB-4679-96BD-A94574E274E6.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022
• tangerine dream auto

Tangerine Dream auto
1/25
Day 22
Week 4

48706428-D4C6-4FC2-8678-F4DBA09730F1.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022

Tangerine Dream auto
1/25
Day 22

Day 23 first pistils:

093A5A18-A4FA-4CFB-9676-DB39A4FC6CDA.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022

Tangerine Dream auto
1/26 - Day 23
*First sign of sex*

Day 24:

627835B1-FA1E-46B7-BABE-D1EEE39E44BA.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022

Tangerine Dream auto
1/27
Day 24 above ground
Week 4

E706E2FD-AF70-47B7-AF57-724313DC9650.jpeg

• Verbalist
• Jan 27, 2022
• barney's farm tangerine dream auto

Tangerine Dream auto
1/27
Day 24

Thanks for stoppin by. I appreciate it.
Stay warm and medicated!


- Verb

Super star there.
Going to be a few huge colas on that lady.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[StoneOtter]

A gallon o Joy Verb!

 

[Verbalist]

Super star there.
Going to be a few huge colas on that lady.

Stay safe
Bill

Thanks Bill.
Yeah hopefully. Oldest shoots on mains growing now almost at the same speed as the newest growth (mains tips).

Wondering if high cytokinin and low auxins Kelp products inhibits the stretch — how quickly you should get visible results after adding it to the feeding regime? @FelipeBlu Do you have any idea? How familiar you’re with Kelp/Seaweed products or kelp & cannabis relationship?

 

[Bill284]

Thanks Bill.
Yeah hopefully. Oldest shoots on mains growing now almost at the same speed as the newest growth (mains tips).

Wondering if high cytokinin and low auxins Kelp products inhibits the stretch — how quickly you should get visible results after adding it to the feeding regime? @FelipeBlu Do you have any idea? How familiar you’re with Kelp/Seaweed products or kelp & cannabis relationship?

I've never noticed a reduction in strech when using kelp products.
My girls love it though.

Stay safe
Bill