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Vortex's Lab: 4x4 Secondary Garden & Experimental Thread

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
Backing off from the silica/calmag addition, at least for now. I just couldn't keep the silica from precipitating, no matter how I mixed things, so about the only benefit I was getting from it was an increase in pH. Thus I've been flirting with the mag lockout line, and a leaf here and there supports that observation. :rolleyes:

Mostly on my Auto Lemon Drop (Super Lemon Haze) and only a couple of fans were showing. It was starting to creep a tick on a leaf of the blue dream'matic though, so with this mornings breakfast I skipped the silica, but kept a little bit of additional calmag in there. May do that again with the next, and then be off the wagon and back to just straight MC.


For breakfast this morning I mixed up 5.5g/gal for the 4 bigger girls. It's right on the tip edge, as shown by the last feed, but they'll grow into it with this meal or the next anyway. Not going to sweat it.

I went ahead and run 2 quarts of breakfast into the Lemon, then flushed 3 gal of plain water through her and let her drip dry over a bucket. Then I put a gallon of food back in, and hopefully have reset her a bit. I think it was probably a tad unnecessary to do, however it was more precautionary measures than from desperate need.

The others weren't needing it, and the only other plant showing any signs of a mag def was the blue. She was barely starting to show on one leaf, so not concerned yet. Observant, yes; concerned, no. Will be keeping an eye out and seeing how things progress though.

Anyway, the short of all that dribble is the calmag/silica is out, and we're back to just straight MC at 5.5g/gal.
 

farside05

Plant of the Month: Dec 2018, June 2019
Backing off from the silica/calmag addition, at least for now. I just couldn't keep the silica from precipitating, no matter how I mixed things, so about the only benefit I was getting from it was an increase in pH. Thus I've been flirting with the mag lockout line, and a leaf here and there supports that observation. :rolleyes:

Mostly on my Auto Lemon Drop (Super Lemon Haze) and only a couple of fans were showing. It was starting to creep a tick on a leaf of the blue dream'matic though, so with this mornings breakfast I skipped the silica, but kept a little bit of additional calmag in there. May do that again with the next, and then be off the wagon and back to just straight MC.


For breakfast this morning I mixed up 5.5g/gal for the 4 bigger girls. It's right on the tip edge, as shown by the last feed, but they'll grow into it with this meal or the next anyway. Not going to sweat it.

I went ahead and run 2 quarts of breakfast into the Lemon, then flushed 3 gal of plain water through her and let her drip dry over a bucket. Then I put a gallon of food back in, and hopefully have reset her a bit. I think it was probably a tad unnecessary to do, however it was more precautionary measures than from desperate need.

The others weren't needing it, and the only other plant showing any signs of a mag def was the blue. She was barely starting to show on one leaf, so not concerned yet. Observant, yes; concerned, no. Will be keeping an eye out and seeing how things progress though.

Anyway, the short of all that dribble is the calmag/silica is out, and we're back to just straight MC at 5.5g/gal.
Tell me more about this Silica precipitation problem.

You've tried, Silica, Cal-Mag, then Mega Crop, in that order?

Which Silica product are you using? I've used mainly Pro-Tekt, but I've tried Pro-Silicate too and found it was less stable.

How do you dose it? I suck mine out of the bottle using a needle and syringe. Get the desired amount then squirt into my gallon jugs. I have to use a separate syringe just for it. Any trace of other nutes left in the syringe from other products risks turning the silica into a clump.

What is the pH of the water it's going into?

Just some initial thoughts.
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
Tell me more about this Silica precipitation problem.

Thanks for the interest in me jacking up your program. :19:

I've tried just about every combination I can think of, and no bueno.

Protekt (0-0-3), GH Cal Mag + (CaliMagic+, or whatever it is at 1-0-0), and MC.


Have tried (mixing 1gal at a time, so not to waste a full batch):

Protekt, CaMg, MC
Protekt, MC, CaMg
MC, Protekt, CaMg

CaMg, Protekt, MC
CaMg, MC, Protekt
MC, CaMg, Protekt


And nada.


Using blunt tip syringe, pull straight from bottle. Push into jug. Pull/push in jug a couple times, then rinse in fresh water between nutes. MC is obviously dumped and stirred, being dry. :D


Base water pH is 8.1, and the protekt on its own jumps it to mid 9's. (9.2 - 9.6, guess it depends on its mood that day, lol)
 

farside05

Plant of the Month: Dec 2018, June 2019
Thanks for the interest in me jacking up your program. :19:

I've tried just about every combination I can think of, and no bueno.

Protekt (0-0-3), GH Cal Mag + (CaliMagic+, or whatever it is at 1-0-0), and MC.


Have tried (mixing 1gal at a time, so not to waste a full batch):

Protekt, CaMg, MC
Protekt, MC, CaMg
MC, Protekt, CaMg

CaMg, Protekt, MC
CaMg, MC, Protekt
MC, CaMg, Protekt


And nada.


Using blunt tip syringe, pull straight from bottle. Push into jug. Pull/push in jug a couple times, then rinse in fresh water between nutes. MC is obviously dumped and stirred, being dry. :D


Base water pH is 8.1, and the protekt on its own jumps it to mid 9's. (9.2 - 9.6, guess it depends on its mood that day, lol)
I don't have much else. I thought maybe your base water pH would be like and maybe that was causing it because silica has to be in a higher pH solution so it doesn't precipitate. But your water is about the same as mine. Only real suggestion is get it it's own syringe or dose with a measuring spoon (1tsp = 5ml). That and make sure Pro-Tekt goes in 1st before the other 2. If that don't solve it, maybe it's a bad batch of Pro-Tekt. Beyond that, I got nothing
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
I don't have much else. I thought maybe your base water pH would be like and maybe that was causing it because silica has to be in a higher pH solution so it doesn't precipitate. But your water is about the same as mine. Only real suggestion is get it it's own syringe or dose with a measuring spoon (1tsp = 5ml). That and make sure Pro-Tekt goes in 1st before the other 2. If that don't solve it, maybe it's a bad batch of Pro-Tekt. Beyond that, I got nothing

I agree it's definitely weird as hell. And not like it's not getting stirred up good enough either. I'm using a drill and a paint mixer in a bucket. :laugh:


I can try a brand new syringe and see, but not holding out hope.

How much pH down are you adding once all nutes are mixed up?
 

farside05

Plant of the Month: Dec 2018, June 2019
I agree it's definitely weird as hell. And not like it's not getting stirred up good enough either. I'm using a drill and a paint mixer in a bucket. :laugh:


I can try a brand new syringe and see, but not holding out hope.

How much pH down are you adding once all nutes are mixed up?
Zero, and I haven't tested pH for 2 grows. Previous experience was that if I used a 1:1:1 ratio of Mega:pro Tekt:Cal Mag, it tended to settle out at 6.5-6.6 which is where I'd want it for a peat based soil-less mix anyhow.
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
Zero, and I haven't tested pH for 2 grows. Previous experience was that if I used a 1:1:1 ratio of Mega:pro Tekt:Cal Mag, it tended to settle out at 6.5-6.6 which is where I'd want it for a peat based soil-less mix anyhow.

I haven't checked it since the first couple of batches. It was a tick high, but have been giving the whole "no need to pH for promix" thing a shot. So far, it's been right, but wondering now if the 5ml/gal of protekt isn't running it a bit high.

Then again, also with MC and not being salt based... who knows.
 

farside05

Plant of the Month: Dec 2018, June 2019
I haven't checked it since the first couple of batches. It was a tick high, but have been giving the whole "no need to pH for promix" thing a shot. So far, it's been right, but wondering now if the 5ml/gal of protekt isn't running it a bit high.

Then again, also with MC and not being salt based... who knows.
As long as the Pro Tekt is offset by equal amounts of Mega and Cal Mag, it should balance out.

As for not being "salt based". That's one person in particulars notion, and it gets thrown around a lot. The definition of Salts is misused and bastardized badly. See Page 1, Post 19 of my thread. A salt is just a solid made of 2 different ions. The moment it's dissolved in water the bond is broken and now it's not a "salt" anymore, it's just ions. Mega most definitely contains "salts". People mistakenly think "salts" somehow refer to Sodium Chloride since it's the "salt" (ions of Sodium and Chlorine) that we are most familiar with. So when people are talking about flushing out salts from their medium, really in technical terms, that are flushing unused ions of particular elements.

Farside05 climbs off soapbox and returns to normal activities....hehehe
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
As long as the Pro Tekt is offset by equal amounts of Mega and Cal Mag, it should balance out.

I may get curious before long and peek at the pH just to see. Would be good to know before throwing it into hydro. :D
 

farside05

Plant of the Month: Dec 2018, June 2019
Hydro is an animal I'm not familiar with. Never played that game. I've asked several other growers, with different water sources to test their pH with just Mega and it seems to like to go to that 6.5ish number. It's like it self regulates. I've wondered if it's hard to get it to lower numbers and maintain it there. Although Dyna Gro nutes claim that most people run hydro too low and it's more stable around 6.3. at least with their product. Maybe Mega is more similar to it.
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
The only one off the top of my head that I know for sure is @Jack420 with his flood table. He’s also killing it too.
 

farside05

Plant of the Month: Dec 2018, June 2019
The only one off the top of my head that I know for sure is @Jack420 with his flood table. He’s also killing it too.
His crop is looking nice. Probably the best results I've seen him have. Someone was talking about doing some kind of hydro or hempy and not adjusting as a trial. Can't recall who it was. I've been hopping in more threads recently and I've lost track.
 

Jack420

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys hydro is ok just have to keep a eye on like 3 times a day lol n I agree best crop to date all I Ben working with from the start is 400 wat hps 150 wat hps n few cheap 300 wat led ts3000 big step up 450 wats to the wall I always ran my hps at 75% cuz of heat so I never Ben so high in wats but my ph stays stable enough for a few days I put it 5.85.9 let it drift a bit before tampering lol n all I’m using it’s just mc ph down n great white
 

Jack420

Well-Known Member
The only one off the top of my head that I know for sure is @Jack420 with his flood table. He’s also killing it too.
Thanks brother thanks to all of y’all went to dying clones was under feeding till I went to the tread gave them 6 g a gal now I’m telling them pls stop growin for papah lol
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
His crop is looking nice. Probably the best results I've seen him have. Someone was talking about doing some kind of hydro or hempy and not adjusting as a trial. Can't recall who it was. I've been hopping in more threads recently and I've lost track.

I brought it up in the MC thread when we were talking about different chelation types and "salts" and whether or not Shed's info about pH-ing for the nutes and not the medium, and then Em threw some input in, and so on. If I had some clones, I'd throw together a DWC test.

Guess I could take one of the seedlings I'm not throwing in the RDWC and give that a roll just to see what happens. Bad part of that is with the pH stabilizing in the low 6's for the most part, it most likely would make it through without much issue. So not really a very good test, IMO as it should pretty much be OK if it keeps that up.
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
Now back to your regularly scheduled bird cage liner...

As this is my tinkering grow space, this is also where I'll drop ideas/thoughts from time to time. Which means I'll ramble on about something that crossed my mind and I may want to implement sometime down the road. Could be a block, could be halfway cross the country, but at some point on the road.

In today's installment, I'm thinking about seedlings, helping the babies get a solid footing before being chunked into their new main home, etc. With starting seeds in pairs and selecting the strongest one, this would give them a place to grow for a couple weeks and be able to select the strongest of the two. This could also be used for clones in the future, if I can ever get something going in that department.

Something I could use for either basic type of initial planting style (directly in soil/soilless/perlite or in a net pot) with a quick adaptation, like changing the lid and reconnecting a hose or something.

What I've came up with is made from a tote. Like one of those 27gal commander tough totes from Lowes.

1) For things which would use a net pot (DWC/RDWC, etc).

In the tote I would put together an aeroponic type spray system. Nothing stellar here, and it's done all the time. Fill the tote halfway up with water, put in a submersible pump, run that pump up into some pvc piping which has the misting spray heads. I would cut 8 holes in the lid, as I tend to run 4 plants per run. This would use 2" or 3" net pots, and I would then drape the new roots through a bigger net pot when moving to their bigger home.

This could also be used to get clones going.



2) For the rest, where they will be going into a pot directly.

For this I would sit a tray of some sort on top of the tote and bam... now you've got a mini flood/drain setup.

If you plumb the tote right, and add a couple valves, you're in business. Honestly, you shouldn't even need to change the pump or anything else around.

Just set the tray on top of the tote, pushing the flood pipe into a fitting, and open the valve while closing the one for the sprayers. Put the pump on a timer and turn the flow down, and poof.


Now the only part I'm unsure of on this is when it comes to putting a net pot inside a bigger net pot. The little one would go into a 5.5" current culture net pot, which is fine. They have a nice little riser in the middle of them for sitting your plug on, which is cool. A little net pot would sit there just peachy.

Where my issue comes in is with getting the roots through the bigger pot. People do it, I know, but I'm not sure I want to mess with it when I could just start them in a bigger pot to begin with.

But... if I do that, I'm not fitting 8 5.5" net pots in the lid dimensions of a 27gal tote. There just isn't the space to do that and have enough of the top left to actually hold the pots up. I'd have to measure it all again, but pretty sure that's the case. Maybe not, or maybe there would be a way to puzzle it together. Maybe a 2-1-2-1-2 layout would fit and have enough lid left to hold it up.



So anyway, I'm just dribbling here, and thinking some things through. This was sparked by? Yep, seedlings coming up and wondering how I'm going to get them through a week or so to select the stronger one of a pair. :laugh:


The basics are being able to take the net pot, and put it into the hydro system. Or being able to take the small pot and put it into a bigger pot, or a rooter and put it into perlite, whatever.

I'll most likely not do an actual dirt run, but you never know. I'm sure at some point I'll do coco (hello, autopots!) and for sure will do straight perlite.


Need to think more on this, but it's something I'd like to experiment with by the time I get ready for the next run.
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
Back to the above a bit, I did find what would be a good, solid solution for the tote and lid. Specifically a Current Culture UC Pro Solo (35gal) module with a pre-drilled lid for 8 of the 5.5" net pots.

Granted you can DIY it for a lot less, but it wouldn't be near as durable. Lid and the box would run about $250, then still have to plumb it all (which is the cheap part either way.) :(


Still, that aside, it would make for a nice, nice setup. :D

I think I'll be my typical smart assed self and when someone asks me what I want for the upcoming holiday... :19::19::19:
 

farside05

Plant of the Month: Dec 2018, June 2019
My 2¢ on "selecting the strongest seedling". I don't think I've had a grow yet where the plant I initially favored became the best in the end. One of the others ends up surprising me mid grow. You could easily cull a hidden gem.
 

multiVortex

Well-Known Member
I agree with that. Not really sure of a better way, overall though. Can't grow out 8 plants, and if you drop 1 seed per plant you want to grow, you can end up short.

I figured at least if you give them a couple weeks, you have a better shot than hoping everything germs 100% of the time, or just taking whichever pops first.

I guess if running a single strain it's not such a big deal, but run more than one and you're into sketchy win/lost territory.

I hate wasting seeds, but I also hate wasting grow spots, too. And if a seed doesn't pop, then you have to drop another and now it's going to be a week behind the rest.

Even without the seedling selection, it still isn't a bad idea to get the seedlings really going strong. :)
 
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