What Are My Options?

[RetiredExec]

I was wondering what different options I have in utilizing my Growing Area Efficiently.
Can anyone tell me the most effective method of growing constantly with great results using the components I list below? For example should I convert the Large 12ft high x 2ft deep x 6 Ft wide closet into separate areas? Other than creating a smal 'Veg Cabinet inside a flowering chamber' is that about it?
I am learning the VERY BASICS here in terms of schedules, and EFFICIENCY

I currently have 6 plants in 5 gallon containers under 2 600 watt MH Bulbs

I was going to leave the 8 plants in th veg box for the next grow (All Seeds Are Mystery But Quality Should I buy seeds for my second grow?) After the 6 are harvested I was going to place th rest in and flower these plants.

Should I Buy Seeds Now or 'Hone My Skills' on Quality Mystery' ?

ANY Help is Greatly Appreciated and If I Require Additional Components PLEASE tell me what I need to Take Things To The Next Step....

Thanks!


I have a 33 gallon drum for nuts and am watering at less than 50% full strength using Dyna Gro Protekt and maintaining a lower PH

I have a veg box 6 FtLong x 2 ft deep x 2 Ft wide and a with 3 -4 Ft T5 bulbs and several 12v computer fans handling cooling I have 8 Nice Health Plants I plan on leaving while 6 Plants in 5 gallon Containers under the 1200 Watt Hortilux Bulbs flower.
I was going to harvest then place the remaining plants inside to flower. inside the Veg.
I have a closet adjoining it with 2-600 WattDigital Lumitek Ballasts and 2 6 inch inch air cooled Reflectors . Top Quality, forget the name.
1 6 Inch Vortex Inline Exhaust Fan

 

[Stilletto]

Re: What Are My Options?...

First off Welcome!
I can see that you have some decent equiptment and have done some research already, bravo.
I can only offer some tips and hints because you seem to have a good handle on things so far. Your main question seemed to be "How can you do a good continual grow". Ideally clones would be the best for that scenario imo. Seeds would work but I prefer to use that fem'd seeds to grow mother plants. Even a good bag seed can get a good mother but sexing plants is a real time consumer, I have done it a few times but easy to get fem seeds now so why waste the time.
Once you have a good mom plant then cloning is easy and if you time things right as I do you can harvest every 8 weeks(6 times a year) even though sometimes all the best laid plans are spoiled by mother nature. Reguardless it is quick when you have a mom and a veg room. Here is a tip: Try to keep your moms seperate from your veg chamber, Then if you get bugs/desease/etc it will not destroy everything.
If you are without a mom then just take clones off of the veg plants just before you put them in flower. Also "top" the plants and use one of the tops to make a mom. I like using tops to create moms, it seems to have a better success rate in my opinion?.

Anyway, Good luck on your grow and enjoy your stay here, there are some REALLY great people on this site.

Jonny

 

[The Master]

Re: What Are My Options?...

first .... nice to meet u stilleto myspelin not good but my readin is good and I like reading ur writtings.

2nd lemme give u my thoughts on store baught seeds.
on a scale of 1 to 10....10 being best.....u have a good bag seed that has the potential to be an 8. no matter what u do it'll never be an 8.5 u could fuckitup and make it a 6 but never more than 8.

now if you have a seed that has the potential to be a 10....c where ima goin ?

 

[RetiredExec]

Re: What Are My Options?...

Hey thanks for the reply!
So I Need to ' Pick a Mother'. And then separate her from the current veg box and then I flower the remaining plants?

 

[Wild Heart]

Re: What Are My Options?...

If you want to go the clone route then yes. I've been growing for a couple years and still haven't started messing with clones. I say get a few more grows under your belt before you start stuffing the closet.

 

[RetiredExec]

Re: What Are My Options?...

Thanks!

BTW: I have 6 in 5 gallon pots under 1200 MH
It is starting to get dense in the grow space and I don't know when to switch to 12/12 or when I need to switch to Bloom nutes etc etc
They are roughly 14-20 inches high and they are getting quite thick. Do I wait until a specific point or just when you think its getting too tight in the 6 ft wide x 2 ft deep x 12 ft high space?

THANKS!

 

[medme]

Re: What Are My Options?...

if you have a 2 foot plant,,, you can figure it will grow another foot when you put it to flower.... 1 foot plant will gain 6"...etc.... sometimes they will grow almost double it height.

 

[Xlr8]

Re: What Are My Options?...

if you have a 2 foot plant,,, you can figure it will grow another foot when you put it to flower.... 1 foot plant will gain 6"...etc.... sometimes they will grow almost double it height.

It really depends on the strain - most plants I've grown will double to triple their height during flowering. My most recent grow my 9" plants ended up at about 30 -36" after 12/12. Quadrupled in height. Straight Indicas and "autos'" may be a little different and may not stretch as much, but hybrids and Sativas can really stretch sometimes.

 

[Xlr8]

Re: What Are My Options?...

Thanks!

BTW: I have 6 in 5 gallon pots under 1200 MH
It is starting to get dense in the grow space and I don't know when to switch to 12/12 or when I need to switch to Bloom nutes etc etc
They are roughly 14-20 inches high and they are getting quite thick. Do I wait until a specific point or just when you think its getting too tight in the 6 ft wide x 2 ft deep x 12 ft high space?

THANKS!

How long have they been growing? If height is an issue, you may want to start them on a 12/12 light cycle soon. My experience is that they can double to triple in height once flowering is initiated, but there are a lot of factors that go into that.

 

[Stilletto]

Re: What Are My Options?...

I know there is alot of info on this forum from some very skilled folks and I am sure you are reading it. I figured I would hit some of your other questions to offer my 2 cents on some of these thoughts. I will just ramble a bit on these issues....
Hieght is always an issue for indoor grows, we have to deal with light degradation from HID lights so a smaller plant will see better benefits indoors. Air cooled hoods are important to maximizing yeild and controlling temps, allowing you to keep the lights closer to the plants. I keep my hoods about 6" above my colas and never see dryness or burning.
Many factors are involved in plant height such as:
Strain- indicas are shorter than sativas.
Genetics- self explanitory
medium-Hydro, soil, soiless. Technicly hydro/airo "should" produce the largest plants due to the fact that the roots have no size limitations. "The size of a plant is limited only by the amount of oxygen the roots can recieve." (I use soiless).
Spectrum of light- also type of light. A "cool" light with a high spectrum such as MH will cause the plant to stretch more than a warmer light like HPS.
Root system- I think this is one of the most overlooked areas of a plant for most growers, yet in my opinion it is themost important part of the plant and understanding it is key to many things including plant height. A plants root system is always equal to it's vertical growth. By limiting the size of the container you will limit the size it can grow. Keep in mind that it is always in proportion to the life cycle of the plant. Example, a one gallon pot is fine if you 12/12 prior to the plant using all of it's root space. If the plant runs out of root space before the plant is finished flowering then it will become root bound and hurt the plant.
Here is how my grow goes: Veg till 12 " in a 1/2 gal pot, at that time the root system is pretty big and in need of a transplant. Before transplanting I top or fim the plants, this stops the root growth and focuses energy on vertical growth briefly. As soon as the new shoots begin (a week) I transplant to 3 gallon pots. Then I wait a week. Durring that week the roots are exploring thier new soil and the vertical growth is keeping pace. After that week I put under HID for 2 days at 24 hours to ween them onto the light., then I flip to 12/12. The plants are about 15"-18" by this time, and the roots are using about 50% of the available space. This gives the roots plaenty of room to continue without bind up. My plants max height is always aroud 44-48" so they more than double in height. (50/50 sativa-indica strains are my favorite)

Well that seems to be a novel of ramblings!
I hope some of this helps and I will check in to see if you have any other Q's.
Happy growing.

Jonny

 

[Xlr8]

Re: What Are My Options?...

Thanks!

BTW: I have 6 in 5 gallon pots under 1200 MH
It is starting to get dense in the grow space and I don't know when to switch to 12/12 or when I need to switch to Bloom nutes etc etc
They are roughly 14-20 inches high and they are getting quite thick. Do I wait until a specific point or just when you think its getting too tight in the 6 ft wide x 2 ft deep x 12 ft high space?

THANKS!

Also wanted to add that when you start the 12/12 light cycle, that is when you switch to bloom nutes. Another good reference is the last link in my signature below this post - there is a ton of good info there. I'm also willing to help as much as I can and will try to answer any questions if you have them. There are a lot of helpful kind people here if you ever need anything. You can also start a grow journal, and people will follow along and offer tips/advice. For what it's worth, based on the fact this is your first grow I'd switch to bloom cycle now/soon. They're going to get pretty big, so you might want to just pull the trigger. Good luck, and happy growing!

Best - X

 

[RetiredExec]

Re: What Are My Options?...

OK I am going to blow my wad!
Can you guys help me in this transition phase?

BTW These plants have been begging for many months but under less than ideal circumstances. Only after lowering PH and air / soil temps were they able to take off.
Now I have fan leaves the size of my hand!

I am using Dyna Gro along with baby shampoo and Proteckt at this point and recently added some Micronutes to my 33 gallon reservoir
What Do I Do Next Guys?

THANKS!

 

[fish cake]

Re: What Are My Options?...

wow what is baby shampoo all about?

 

[fish cake]

Re: What Are My Options?...

Igeuss I understand how it would it would help in pest control but is there something I am missing?

 

[RetiredExec]

Re: What Are My Options?...

He'll the Baby Shampoo is from Jorge Cervantes , not I!
Supposed to make nuts 'slippery' which makes sense to me...

 

[Xlr8]

Re: What Are My Options?...

OK I am going to blow my wad!
Can you guys help me in this transition phase?

BTW These plants have been begging for many months but under less than ideal circumstances. Only after lowering PH and air / soil temps were they able to take off.
Now I have fan leaves the size of my hand!

I am using Dyna Gro along with baby shampoo and Proteckt at this point and recently added some Micronutes to my 33 gallon reservoir
What Do I Do Next Guys?

THANKS!

I'm not familiar with the nutrients you are using or the baby shampoo thing, but I'll throw a few things out there that might help.

Start your lights on 12 hours on, 12 hours off. If you have a HPS bulb that is what you should use. A trick that sometimes helps limit the plants stretching in height is to stick with MH lights for the first 1-2 weeks and then switch to HPS. Generally, people switch to HPS bulb at start of 12/12.

Make sure you have your temperature, RH (relative humidity), and air circulation in order. Temps that are comfortable to humans are to weed, too. RH should be <60% in bloom, I try to keep mine around 45-50%. Make sure there is air movement in the room (fan, etc.)

Use the bloom nutrients in your nutrient program. Their website, bottles or literature probably have suggested amounts to include per gallon, for example. Because this is your first grow, I'd suggest 75% of the manufacturers recommendation. Don't worry, you'll not lose hardly anything in yield by doing this and you'll have fewer problems.

After lighting is switched to 12/12, start watching at the nodes (where the branches meet the stem) for male or female parts. You have been vegging for a while, so they might be obvious already - if not you'll be able to see them within the first 2 weeks of 12/12. Female plants will have what look like little fuzzy antennas, "pistils", extending from a pod. Male plants will not have fuzzy antennas, and will have what looks like a ball dangling from a stick, or "staminate". Unless you plan on breeding, you want to remove and kill any male plants once identified to keep them from pollinating your females (causing them to be full of seeds and weaker in potency).

Here is a good diagram for identifying male/female parts:

Continue to feed the females with 75% of nutrient manufacturers recommendation. At about week 8 start taking small clippings from either a bud or a "sugar leaf" (leaf close to bud with trichomes). Use a small handheld microscope to look at the clippings (Radio Shack has a good one for 15-20$). You should see little clear stalks that look like they have a head on them similar to a mushroom. Between about weeks 8 to 10 you should see those get first milky, and then start to amber a little. Once most of them are milky I would discontinue nutrients and use water or water with a clearing agent like "clearex" (google it) for the next 1-2 weeks or whenever they are done. This will flush excess nutrient salts from your plant and help with taste later.

As soon as you see some ambering of the trichomes, I'd harvest your plants. See the last link in my signature for further info on anything you need, as well as tips for harvesting, drying and curing.

Hope this helps!

 

[RetiredExec]

Xir8 and everyone else,

Sorry it takes time to reply. if you guys could read what I currently set up and let me know what is my best approach it would be GREATLY appreciated!

I have several Major Decisions I Must Make... Do I stick with soil and design a kick ass irrigation system or should I focus my efforts on purchasing quality digital nutrient meters and other components needed for a high end hydro setup?

I currently have 6 Plants in a 6 x 2 x 12 space.... One is MUCH larger than the rest. These were bag seeds, almost certainly from a Grandaddy purple I had awhile back but the one tall plant may be from mid grade weed I had too..

Do I KILL THE TALL PLANT?
Or do I kill off the weakest looking of the short fat plants?

It is already getting VERY THICK inside there.... I gotta think of a better way to control plant height so I don have to lift 5 gallon pots onto half assed stands and milk crates...Gotta Be A Better Way.....
I am using a 33 gallon drum with a small submersible pump attached to a hand wand. At some point I was plannin on connecting it to a full pressurized irrigation system at some point but I Wonder if I Should Redesign To A Hydro System for the second grow.....
Nutes
Dyna Grow Bloom 1/4 Strength
Dyna Gro Protekt 1/4 Strength
GReen Air ? (forget the name) Micro Base B for Bloom 1/4 Streng
It appears that I can bump up the strength BUT for some reason, possibly high CFM rates , I need to water more like every 3-4 days My growing medium is Foxfarms and roughly 30% Perlite

Which Plants Must Die?
Can I Go to 3/4 Strength on Everythig?
Should I Stick With Soil?
If I go Hydro What's The Most Efficient and Easy To Maintain Hydro DESIGN available?
How Do I Best Monitor and Maintain PH and Nutes?
I wish I could monitor EXACTLY what the nutrient level is in the33 Gallon reservoir... Any way to do this?

Thanks again for ANY and ALL replies!
I don't want to have come this far only to screw things up!


I just got an Oakton PH meter. How do I use it properly?

 

[Stilletto]

Sounds like you are pretty busy and have alot of decisions to make.
I will suggest staying with soil. I prefer "soiless" but I am not familliar with fox farms. The reason I recomend soil /soilless is as follows. Hydro is supperior under ideal conditions but to get ideal conditions you need to make some mistakes. There is alot of set up and alot of parts. As a new grower you want to focus on getting a plant to harvest, once you understand the basics and can get a crop in then you can experiment. I have always felt that hydro is more effort than it's worth. Yeah it "can" produce good crops but it can ruin them too, pump fails or resivior breaks etc, water and electrisity so close, so many things to maintain. I know some guys like it and that is fine, but for me it is alot of cost for alot of potential problems.
I open my room once every 3 days, water for 45 mins, other than that it can be ignored. Easy as pie.

As far as hieght control, I suggest you "top" the plants. even top them a node or two down to shorten them. This will buy you a week or two most.

I know you have other questions but I am out of time at the moment.
Keep at it.

Jonny

 

[Xlr8]

Xir8 and everyone else,

Sorry it takes time to reply. if you guys could read what I currently set up and let me know what is my best approach it would be GREATLY appreciated!

I have several Major Decisions I Must Make... Do I stick with soil and design a kick ass irrigation system or should I focus my efforts on purchasing quality digital nutrient meters and other components needed for a high end hydro setup?

I currently have 6 Plants in a 6 x 2 x 12 space.... One is MUCH larger than the rest. These were bag seeds, almost certainly from a Grandaddy purple I had awhile back but the one tall plant may be from mid grade weed I had too..

Do I KILL THE TALL PLANT?
Or do I kill off the weakest looking of the short fat plants?

It is already getting VERY THICK inside there.... I gotta think of a better way to control plant height so I don have to lift 5 gallon pots onto half assed stands and milk crates...Gotta Be A Better Way.....
I am using a 33 gallon drum with a small submersible pump attached to a hand wand. At some point I was plannin on connecting it to a full pressurized irrigation system at some point but I Wonder if I Should Redesign To A Hydro System for the second grow.....
Nutes
Dyna Grow Bloom 1/4 Strength
Dyna Gro Protekt 1/4 Strength
GReen Air ? (forget the name) Micro Base B for Bloom 1/4 Streng
It appears that I can bump up the strength BUT for some reason, possibly high CFM rates , I need to water more like every 3-4 days My growing medium is Foxfarms and roughly 30% Perlite

Which Plants Must Die?
Can I Go to 3/4 Strength on Everythig?
Should I Stick With Soil?
If I go Hydro What's The Most Efficient and Easy To Maintain Hydro DESIGN available?
How Do I Best Monitor and Maintain PH and Nutes?
I wish I could monitor EXACTLY what the nutrient level is in the33 Gallon reservoir... Any way to do this?

Thanks again for ANY and ALL replies!
I don't want to have come this far only to screw things up!


I just got an Oakton PH meter. How do I use it properly?

Soil vs. Hydro? Personal preference. First learn soil since you've already got that going, and then start studying up on hydro - good place to start is at an indoor growing store/grow shop. Ask lots of questions about your "tomato" growing needs and what sort of hydroponic options they have.

Personally, I only kill "male" plants. Do you know the sex of your plants yet? If not, wait until you've been under 12/12 for 10-14 days and you'll know which plants to kill (the males). If you do know sex - then kill the tall one if you think it'll be a height problem. Scratch that kill the one that looks least healthy.

I like Stilletto's idea - top them 1 or 2 nodes down and you'll be back in control of your light. Don't top them once you've started 12/12 light cycle (you might cause them to turn hermaphrodite - bad like having a male). Look in the last link of my signature "How to grow..." for topping information or do a google search or search the forums here for topping how-to.

Frankly, something made me think you were growing hydro, so I have to confess I'm not as comfortable with soil. You say you are using 1/4 strength nutrients? Is that what the nutrient company recommends or is that what you are doing to maintain height? Not sure I understand completely... My original thought on this is whatever is recommended for your application - do it at 3/4 strength of that. I still think that's the way to go.

Your PH meter is a good one, and it's pretty simple. I'm assuming it's a "pen style". First, never let the tip get dried out. Place a little piece of moist sponge or just a bit of water in the cap to keep the "bulb" damp. You can use either PH calibration solution or tap water for this. (Tap water is much cheaper). It does need to be calibrated before you use it. You'll need PH 7.0 calibration solution for the most basic calibration. Read the manual to help understand this better, but I pour a small amount of solution into a shot glass to calibrate. Lastly, NEVER use RO or distilled water to keep tip of your PH pen moist - it'll ruin it. Once you calibrate the pen you can use it to measure the PH of your reservoir. Here is a chart that shows proper PH. In general 6.3 - 6.8 is pretty good for soil:

Also, you can buy an Oakton TDS pen (many other companies make them as well) that measures the nutrient strength of your reservoir similar to a PH pen. Same goes in that you'll also need calibration solution, and it'll need calibration before using (similar process to PH pen). I find both a PH pen and TDS pen really useful.

You commented on plant heights - crates and stands, etc. If you are raising plants to get them closer to the light, you would be better topping to an even canopy like Jonny suggested and then investing 20$ or so on "yo yo's" to raise and lower your lights (in grow stores/internet).

Read read read read everything you can on this site and others. Not to keep prosthelytizing, but the last link in my signature has a weeks worth of reading on all of these issues that can be very helpful. Hope this is helpful!