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What is a reliable way to make a hermie? I want female seeds

Smokin Moose

Fallen Cannabis Warrior
Re: What is a reliable way to make a herme? I want female seeds

This is what Cees from No Mercy Seeds says on this.

Female Seeds – Dream or (almost) Reality?

Since seeds have been outlawed, there has been a steady and wide-spread increase in the use of cuttings. The reasons are obvious: After all, this method is just as illegal and a lot of growers chose for the advantages of using cuttings. The question remains, whether this method is really that advantageous and if not, whether there are any alternatives. Grow! Looked around in the Netherlands, where the cutting-method was received with open arms twenty years ago. In a stat of highest euphoria the Dutch growers threw their seeds overboard at the time ad lovingly embraced the little baby-plant. In the meantime harsh reality has caught up with most of them and made them understand that cuttings do not only have advantages. Their obvious disadvantages are the reason for half of Holland being on the look-out for the alternative: 100% female seeds.

In this article we will review both, advantages and disadvantages of either method. We went to visit Cees of `No Mercy Supply`, who succeeded in producing 100% female seeds. He has no secrets and tells us openly how to manipulate the plant in order to achieve this result.
The fotos we were allowed to take at his place are unique and haven´t been published in any German magazine before. As weird as they may look at first glance, they are originals and have not been manipulated on the computer.

Cuttings aren´t always such great shakes.
A bit of history: In the seventies it was absolutely normal for the handful of people in the business of growing cannabis to grow their plants from seeds. Smoking grass wasn´t all that popular at the time and the grass one did smoke usually came from very far away. If one bought a little bag full occasionally, it would mainly contain stems and the few tops in it would hold a rich quantity of seeds. Everyone knew someone, who had tried to grow these seeds in their garden eventually, usually with the same result: firewood. But when the Americans came up with their sensimilla-seeds (which their legal situation still allowed them to grow undisturbedly back then), this was an eye-opener for many Dutch growers as well. Best known among them is Ben Donkers, cannabinologist with heart and soul and founder of the Sensi empire. He immediately recognized the importance of good quality seeds. And while all the others kept themselves busy with growing, he concentrated on seed-production. After a few years, cuttings made their entrance, still known as ´clones´. That seemed to be a great discovery, saving time and warranting success as well. Prices were about the same as those of seeds, but with every purchase one would usually get 10% extra to make up for those plants that wouldn´t come out. When the prices for cuttings dropped this generosity was brought to an end, but since the method still had its advantages, nobody complained anymore after a while. Growing from cuttings had started on a large scale. Funnily enough, it wasn´t done by cannabis-smoking connoisseurs, but rather, by people who had only one thing in mind: making loads of money fast. In their relentless pursuit of riches, these people didn`t shrink from using pesticides or oher substances that were potentially harmful to plants and humans alike.

Up until today the cuttings trade is still in the hands of those cowboys, because the real lovers of a good smoke prefer to let their plants bloom. Unfortunately reality is this, that most of the big grass-producers are profit-oriented Scrooges, who look at the plant merely as a chicken with golden eggs. Most of them have never smoked and they don´t give a monkeys about the quality of their produce. They find it completely normal to spray the plants right up until the last week and the health consequences there of certainly don´t give them any sleepless nights.

Internationally, the Dutch way is often seen as exemplary, but it definitely isn´t the only way. Other growers should learn from the twisted situation that has developed in the Netherlands. We are now ten years futher down the road and meanwhile have learned that the use of cuttings does definitely have its disadvantages.

The disadvantage of cuttings is that they are produced by humans, the biggest minus point being the desinterest and lack of knowledge of the producers. They only want one thing and that is a huge production. Usually, they start their plantations with cuttings they have simply purchased in a grow-shop. In other words, the genetic material of the motherplants is often geriatric, at the cost of everything we want in a plant: potency, taste, health and, not in the last place, a good harvest. As was already mentioned, the producers mainly want to fill their pockets, so one mustn´t assume that they would invest time and money to grow new motherplants from seeds. As long as the cuttings are still growing roots and have a greenish colour to them, these gentlemen think everything is fine. And in times of scarcity the growshops will even buy this junk.

Another problem quite common in the Netherlands are the different sorts on sale. The assortment contains almost 100% commercial rubbish, like `Elfjes´ or bad Skunk. One must consider the fact that the main part of the Dutch production is for export purposes. “They´ll buy everything in other countries”, is the prevailing thought and the prices asked and paid for this spinach are indeed ridiculous. Consequently, there is hardly any good grass to be found in the Netherlands anymore.

The next difficulty: It happens reguarly that People receive plants of a variety they haven´t ordered. Even worse, often the grower only realizes by the end of the flowering phase, that he has nurtured more than one variety, all with different time schedules, shich isn´t exactly making him happy, eighter.
Yet another big problem is the supply of cuttings. During the summer months it is virually impossible to buy good material, becuase the producers usually are more family men, who simply go on holiday with their wife and kids. After all, their profits want to be spent and that is why during the summer, there are more cuttings-producers to be found in Spain than in Holland. Upon their return it naturally takes them a few weeks to get their production going again. During those times of scarcity the prices of the cuttings still available rise into the astronomical. Those happy few who could lay thier hands on a few little plants run the risk of arriving at home with some limp leaves, because the heat has destroyed the plants in their carton box.

Plants may get ill as well – especially the motherplants that have been topped off for years and all the while have been rooting in ground, which is infested with the leftovers of all kinds of chemical garbage. If the motherplant has contracted an infection or developed root rot, these deseases are passsed on to the cuttings as well.

It simply isn´t possible to produce top quality on a rotten basis, the proverbial green fingers notwithstanding.

Female Seeds – more advantages than disadvantages?
What we perceive as the disadvantages of the use of cuttings, are, generally speaking, the advantages of the seedling-method. First of all, the harvest results are significantly higher than with cuttings. Seedlings are much stronger and therefore less susceptible to diseases. The assortment is quite varied and all those great plants from long ago are still available as seeds. The juridical situation concerning seeds is different as well. After all, seeds may be bought and sold freely in the Netherlands. (Though it remains to be seen, whether it will stay that way for long, editor´s note) And one does drive much more peacefully with a little bag of seeds in one´s pocket than with a back-seat full of moist cuttings in cartons, which steam up the windows and exude a very recognizable aroma...

A grow-shop only needs a small freezer in order to provide seeds all year round. And yet, with the Dutch growers cuttings have prevailed over seedlings for three simple reasons: low prices, no more fiddling with male and female plants and a shorter growth period. Only after a few days, cuttings are content with less than twelve hours of light; seedlings simply need more time than that.

How realistic then is the assumption that cannabis-growers will return to the seedlingmethod and when may this change occur? One person who may be able to answer these questions is Cees. That is why we went to Capelle in the Dutch province of Zeeland, where this excentric manipulator of genes resides.

Cees has gathered some fame in Holland through his firm ´No Mercy Supply`, which supplies grow-shops all over the country with CO2 tablets and Bacterial. Particularly the CO2 tablets, which are added to the water, have ignited hot discussions among the Dutch growers, because until recently nobody thought it was possible to supply the plant with CO2 through the root system. The method Cees uses to produce female seed isn´t that new at all. American cannabis guru Mel Franks already wrote about it in the seventies and it has been applied in gardening for the longest time.

Grow!: “Cees, we are very curious to hear your story. Let´s start at the beginning: What does “XX-plants” mean?”

Cees: “XX means absolutely, totaly female.”

Grow!: “Can you tell us what motivated you in all those years? In dealing with such complicated matter you must have invested a lot of time and also experienced some setbacks, haven´t you?”

Cees: “I have indeed experimented for years, before eventually getting some results. But that´s me – I just won´t let go once I´ve sunk my teeth into an interesting subject, especially if it entails some unanswered questions for the rest of the world. All the setbacks I experienced on the way have only strengthened my will to succeed. The only disadvantage of all those years of experimenting was that I hardly produced anything smokeable. Believe me, this is not a matter for people who only want to produce their own blow. Fortunately, this phase is now behind me.”

Grow!: “Why did you spend so many years on the production of female seed and what are your plans, now that you have cracked the formula?”

Cees: “My object was to extract a healthy natural amount of female seed from really potent XX-plants. When I achieved that after virtually endless experiments, I started to go on cultivating these seeds, to find out whether there´d be any decay after a certain amount of ti-me. During that process I found out that the agent I used also made the plants bloom faster and more fully. But we will discuss this later, for me personally it is not of such great interest. Particularly, because I would only help the ´bread-winning growers´, who for simple monetary reasons often use pesticides and such. Because coincidence only plays a minor role in my perception and because other members of the scene entered the market with female seeds as wel, I didn´t want to keep my knowledge from others interested in this matter. In other words, I´d like to explain that the agent I use is non-toxic and still works very well.”

Grow!: “We´re all ears, so go on telling your story.”

Cees: “In order to produce XX-seeds, one needs a 100% XX-plant. It shouldn´t prove too difficult to find out, whether the plant in question really is exclusively female. A dead-sure method to uncover hermaphrodites is interrupting the cycle by creating shocking light-effects. The shock treatment works best, if one also feeds the plant some extra CO2. One mustn´t forget to add some trace elements as well, though, I have noticed that all the extraordinary events make the plants use up a lot more of those, particularly magnesium. After having found one or more purely female plants, these become the basis of the variety to be cultivate. However, one has to be extremely careful, because there are only very few purely female plants, strange as it may sound. Careless cross-breeding, especially with Asian varieties, has produced a lot of genetic hermaphrodites in the past. Therefore, hermaphrodites may still show up, even after a number of ´clean´ generations. So, if the plant isn´t exclusively XX, the pollen can´t be, either. That can be very frustrating, because in that case all your work is domed from the beginning. But okay, let´s assume that we have found a XX-plant and go on from there. After years of pottering about, searching and experimenting I finally reached a point three years ago, at which I could make a XX-plant pollinate itself. But it wasn´t a real breakthrough yet, because the lenght of the cycle was disappointing in relation with the harvest result.”

Grow!: “Most people would have jumped holes in the air getting only that far. But if I understand correctly, you had merely started, hadn´t you?”

Cees: “Yeah, it gave me a kick, something like “And now let´s get going!”. In the meantime I have solved the cycle problem. At this point, I can bring a pure XX-plant into any state I may chose. The fotos show that very well. Here you see a plant that blooms in three different ways on three separate twigs. It´s a strange and unnatural view, but very exciting for me. Because this was the path to good, strong female seed. But also - as I found out later – to 30-40% more flowers on the ladies and a shortening of the growing cycle by one week. This also proves that it is possible to treat the individual twigs of a plant differently. As you see, I can make the XX-plants grow nice full tops of male flowers, which still produce a lot of pollen. When one or more of its biological sisters are in full bloom, this manipulated lady is put in their midst for pollination. Now, pollination only takes place when the plant is in full flower and will therfore produce a lot of seeds. One only needs a single plant with some good tops of male flowers to pollinate a whole room full of plants.”

Grow!: ”But how does such a treatment work and which miracle potion do you use? What you have told us up to now has only made the matter even more mysterious to me.”

Cees: “The plants I spray have to be topped off first, because it is important that the plant is wide open at the top. Otherwise the pollen can´t reach all the flowers and the seed production won´t be optimal. The right moment of the flowering phase is also very important. If you spray too early, there will only be a few seeds. If you spray too late, most flowers will already have withered and then the result is quite meagre as well. So at exactly the right moment I spray the plants with my solution. It has taken me more than ten years to get a grip on all this.”

Grow!: “All very well, but the question remains: How do you get male flowers on a female plant? We have been waiting long enough now and would like to know what agent you use. Please, do tell!”

Cees: ”I don´t want to tell everything, but quite a lot. One thing I´d like to keep to myself is the proportional ratio of my mixture. There are various substances to manipulate the plants with. I have decided to use GIBBERALIC ACID. But currently there are five different variations for that substance available and it is very likely that the manufacturer will come up with new ones. I have chosen this agent, because I had it tested by Dr. Alink, toxicologist at the School for Agriculture in Wageningen. The result was handed to me in writing and it said in black on white, that this agent will harm neither humans nor animals. The test was done without questions or resistance, which makes it clear that anybody could have substances tested for their harmfullness. In other words, it is very well possible to work with less toxins than was thought to be viable until now. The costs? Zero point nil. Gibberalic acid in itself is highly toxic though, and I am surprised that it hasn't been added to the list of pesticides harmful to the environment.”

Grow!: “But can you just spray that stuff onto the plants?”

Cees: “No, that would be too simple. Of course it needs to be dilluted first. Dilluting a heavy synthetic acid like gibberalic acid is a story in itself, and used to be even more difficult in the old days. Currently, I use natriumhydroxide, a rather aggressive substance that is used to unstuff clogged-up pipes. Natriumhydroxide breaks down very quickly and therefore is not dangerous from a toxicological point of view. The next difficulty is finding the right mixture, only to realize afterwards that the state of the plant sometimes requires a specific composition, that is only variable many points behind the comma. The balance is so sensitive, that things won´t work out, unless one is able to weigh such tiny measures. The exact quantities are so small that dosing them is more than just precision work. Maybe it would help to have a pharmacist as a friend, but even they can often only weigh up to 0.05 grams. But the biggest difficulty of all is determining the right moment!”

Grow!: “If this is all true, then it´s only a question of spraying and there´s your XX-plant?”

Cees: “That´s more or less what it comes down to. Of course, reality is much more complicated, but I already gave away most of the secret. I do this, because I think the smoking community has a right to know what´s going on. That´s why I´m sharing my experiences in this area with you. I hope that people who are into manipulating plants will have the substances they use to do so toxicologically tested. It doesn´t cost anything and the tester doesn´t ask annoying questions, either. In my opinion, the only right method of informing the consumer about the contents is printing them on the wrapping. And the days, in which growers ´had to´ work with very toxic substances are long gone, damn it!”

Grow!: “However, many growers will probably want to continue working with cuttings, because they feel it takes too long for seedlings to mature. Is this a disadvantage we simply have to live with or is the difference in time not so big after all?”

Cees: “Growing from seeds doesn´t have to take that much longer, if you only pre-grow the seeds. About three weeks before I want to put the plants into my garden, I sow them under neonlights (Cool White). The lamps have to hang very closely above the plants, but mustn´t touch them at any point. This makes the seedlings strong and thick and one doesn´t need to fear that they will topple over. Moisture is an important factor, but cannabis is no waterplant. Therefore it is extremely important that the medium the plants are rooted in is moist enough, but can still take in some oxygen. The ideal temperature is 25° C during both, the light and the dark phase. Like the Americans, I stick to a lighting cycle of twenty hours, but eighteen may do as well. All this requires only little space and no great investments. Then I put my seedlings into the harvested and cleaned-up garden and leave them to grow for another two weeks. Then I let them bloom within twelve days and so the whole thing doesn´t take more than a week longer”.

Grow!: “When will your seeds be on the market and how much will they cost?”

Cees: “We have cultivated and tested more than 2.000 seeds and all plants have turned out to be female. The harvest result was much better than with cuttings. If I speak of 30% more produce, I am still being modest. People will be able to try for themselves not too long from now. And I don´t even mention compare this with healthy cuttings; as we both know, those hardly exist. About the price I can only say that ist won´t be much higher than that of cuttings and that I will try to synchronize it with the price of cuttings as soon as possible. But that will only work, if I can further increase my production, because currently people´s interest is so massive that I can´t satisfy the demand. In the meantime, the first production has been harvested and will be on the market this coming summer.”

Grow!: “So, if I may believe you, we will all grow plants from yor seeds shortly, and there will finally be some good grass in the coffeeshops again?”

Cees: “I don´t know about your first point, because others will bring seeds to the market as well. But I am sure that we will return to the seed-method. And that would indeed mean that there will be good grass again, which, after all, is a good thing for everyone. But I notice that you´re still looking at me in disbelief; I will give you a little bag of seeds to try for yourself.”

Grow!: “Thank you very much! If you were right, we´d be the first ones to congratulate you, because the advantages you´re talking about are music to my ears!”

So far the story of this interesting and inspired man, who want to share his knowledge and to warn against the dangers of pesticides without any financial motivation. At the end of the interview we received a handful of seeds to try out. We will keep you posted about this project.

The Amsterdam seed-company `Dutch Passion is the world´s only commercial supplier of female seeds, the right address for our questions about the use of toxic substances to spray the plants. Company director Henk van Dalen:
“We had gibberalic acid tested as well; it is a substance commonly used in gardening. Gibberalic Acid is a hormone that only very slightly influences the male flower and which has some adverse side-effects on the plantgrowth. We don´t use any hormones at all, because the plants react in weird ways to that. The agent we use is a simple chemical substance, like f.ex. a salt solution, and is absolutely free of toxics.
 

Racefan

Well-Known Member
The easiest way is to buy some but the other easy way for feminized seeds is to continue to flower your plants after they are ripe. It's a procedure called rhodelization and it was developed by Soma. About 2 to 3 weeks after the trichs are amber the female will attempt a last ditch effort to carry on the genetics and will throw out some bananas. Colect this pollen. It is female pollen and when you use this pollen on a younger female that is about mid way through flower you will end up with feminized seeds. It's not a fast procedure but has been proven to work.
 

richgannon_2001

New Member
one time i had a plant and i took prolly 60+ clones off of her ina few weeks and she turned hermie, does that mean those seeds i gathered from that plant could be female? i kept them but i had thought that the seeds would be hermie pot as well.
 

Extra Saucy

New Member
The easiest way is to buy some but the other easy way for feminized seeds is to continue to flower your plants after they are ripe. It's a procedure called rhodelization and it was developed by Soma. About 2 to 3 weeks after the trichs are amber the female will attempt a last ditch effort to carry on the genetics and will throw out some bananas. Colect this pollen. It is female pollen and when you use this pollen on a younger female that is about mid way through flower you will end up with feminized seeds. It's not a fast procedure but has been proven to work.


Ok so if the Plant that ditched out the " Bananas " - Pollinates itself then those seeds are Hermie right? So we use that Pollen to Pollinate a Separate Female / Same Strain female to keep it Feminized,.. Correct? This is really useful info.

And thank you for the post.
 
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Racefan

Well-Known Member
Well since the bananas and pollen are thrown out at the "end" of the flowering cycle there isn't enough time for the pollination and seed growth on the original plant. That's why I said to collect the pollen and use it on a female about mid way through a 12/12 cycle. I store my pollen mixed with flower in a plastic bag in the crisper tray of the fridge.
 

richgannon_2001

New Member
so if i had a single plant all alone and it pollenated itself theres a pretty good chance that they will all be hermie seeds? i dotn even want to to through with trying these hermie seeds from last year and then having one slip by my eyes and have it get planted with my outdoor females and it turn out to be a hermie and pollinate my crops so im debating even germinating those seeds for fear that it could screw me over in the long run......my buddy thinks they will all be okay seeds he has hundreds of them and intends to use them and all i can picture is him havn a whole shitload of crap weed
 
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Smokin Moose

Fallen Cannabis Warrior
Here are images with the male acorn flowers highlighted. This is not a hermie! Thanks to Boss-G with help on graphics. I agree with Racefan and fatjoe on this. These images were taken from my Dirty Harry grow, and were the result of a prolonged flowering period.

maleflower31.jpg


maleflower4.jpg
 
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sfhaze

New Member
Anyone ever try Aspirin? I think it's mentioned in Ed Rosenthal's book, just add a tablet to the water on the third week of 12/12 or a confirmed normal female and male flower will form. I've never tried it, but it sounds easier then the other methods.
 

Racefan

Well-Known Member
I had a moderator once. Great girl and pretty serious breeder. She used aspirin to create male flowers on female plants. If I remember right she used it as a spray though. I could be wrong. We all have to use what works for us. I never tried the aspirin method myself. No reason to when the rodelization method works so well. I just got gifted with 2 kushberry clones and 1 grape ape clone last night. One of the kushberries got broke in half. I'm going to pull two different methods to continue their genetics. I'm going to use the flowering clone method and then over flower the original for bananas to get the pollen to pollinate one of the flowering clones. That way I end up with feminized seed without diluting the genetics.:3:
 
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