What is wrong with my plants?! I'm losing the battle!
- Thread starter Lusi
- Start date
Droopy Dog
New Member
Adding lime to the mix before planting is the best way. I make my own mix, and lime is the second thing, right after I measure out the peat moss.
Top dressing is less than good, but will have to do until you mix up another batch of soil, which of course you will add the lime to before use.
There you go again with that "How often" LOL. ONE application of lime per grow is usually sufficient. IF you add enough. Those mixes with the added lime just don't seem to add enough and it usually seems to run out in flowering. I would add more, at least a couple of weeks before flowering so it will be available.
With the lime in my mix, I do not pH anything. The lime gets it right and keeps it right.
Soil testers are junk and woefully inaccurate. Get a digital meter. I have a Milwaukee SM-101 for when I do need to pH something, but there are cheaper ones that will work just fine and also much more expensive ones. I'd use the test strips before I'd use a soil tester. There are good soil testers, but they run ~$250, too rich for my blood.
Outdoor fertilizers????? This is so simple and cheap it often gets overlooked. Jack's Classic. I have been using this for close to 40 years and it works just fine. I buy it in the 25# bags. @1tbl/gallon (full strength), it will last for years. I still have over 1/2 bag after 5 years and IIRC it cost ~$50. It lacks only ca/mag on purpose to avoid lockout from cal/mag (in the form of lime), in the soil or water.
Dyna-Gro is another and is 100% complete. I've used this for years also and still use Pro-Tekt (a silica supplement) with my nutes or teas. There is a reason that Dyna-Gro is available in 55 gallon drums and the Jack's in 25# bags. These are the things that large commercial growers use and they demand high quality at a realistic price point.
You could do several grows for less than $25 with either, grow and bloom both.
All these others are just way over priced and marketed, very skillfully, to inexperienced growers. Quality is usually good, just priced 10x what it should be.
DD
Top dressing is less than good, but will have to do until you mix up another batch of soil, which of course you will add the lime to before use.
There you go again with that "How often" LOL. ONE application of lime per grow is usually sufficient. IF you add enough. Those mixes with the added lime just don't seem to add enough and it usually seems to run out in flowering. I would add more, at least a couple of weeks before flowering so it will be available.
With the lime in my mix, I do not pH anything. The lime gets it right and keeps it right.
Soil testers are junk and woefully inaccurate. Get a digital meter. I have a Milwaukee SM-101 for when I do need to pH something, but there are cheaper ones that will work just fine and also much more expensive ones. I'd use the test strips before I'd use a soil tester. There are good soil testers, but they run ~$250, too rich for my blood.
Outdoor fertilizers????? This is so simple and cheap it often gets overlooked. Jack's Classic. I have been using this for close to 40 years and it works just fine. I buy it in the 25# bags. @1tbl/gallon (full strength), it will last for years. I still have over 1/2 bag after 5 years and IIRC it cost ~$50. It lacks only ca/mag on purpose to avoid lockout from cal/mag (in the form of lime), in the soil or water.
Dyna-Gro is another and is 100% complete. I've used this for years also and still use Pro-Tekt (a silica supplement) with my nutes or teas. There is a reason that Dyna-Gro is available in 55 gallon drums and the Jack's in 25# bags. These are the things that large commercial growers use and they demand high quality at a realistic price point.
You could do several grows for less than $25 with either, grow and bloom both.
All these others are just way over priced and marketed, very skillfully, to inexperienced growers. Quality is usually good, just priced 10x what it should be.
DD
I got the FF trio at a going out of business sale at a hydro store. I doubt you can find it that cheap anywhere else. It was really just blind luck I was driving by and saw the sign out front. I bought a bunch of random stuff, saw the FF and said why not.
I used the Age Old Organics Grow and Bloom. I don't know about their other products. Their gallons are cheaper than some companies quarts.
Thnx Droop, I know what nutes I'll be trying next. I always wondered what the commercial growers were using.
I used the Age Old Organics Grow and Bloom. I don't know about their other products. Their gallons are cheaper than some companies quarts.
Thnx Droop, I know what nutes I'll be trying next. I always wondered what the commercial growers were using.
- Thread starter
- #24
Lusi
New Member
Well darn it to that! Good deal for you. 
))) FF is $$$$$$$$$$$
WOw, I replied to this already, but it didn't show up!!! All that writing is gone. I'll work on it again, links and questions. I'm a slower writer and am aggravated to see 4 hours of work disappear.
These other fertilizers you both mentioned are looking very affordable. I'm still reading about these. Which products from these 3 companies are you guys using? Do I need one for acid loving plants? You fellas use a separate Bloom and Grow? I am so delighted to see good products for such a fair price!)))) TY!!!!!!!!!
I did go to Lowes for the Lime. They had none so I asked the garden gal when she'd get some in. She says she's worked there for 8 years and they've never carried Lime. There was nothing at home Depot or Orchard Supply either. What the hell!?! There was lime in the building dept, but just a generic sandy bag. Nothing about Dolomite on it. Is this useful? My neighbor bought me a tiny 2.5lb "Fast Acting Lime Plus". Says it raises the soil PH. Uh, raising PH is more alkaline, the opposite of what lime does. Am I reading that wrong? The tiny bag does 400Sq feet and claims it neutralizes... which is at least true. I also looked for Age Old, Dyna Grow, and Jacks Classic. I found miracle Grow has hogged the market. It's all these places seem to carry. Once I figure this out, I'll have to mail order. :-( I'll try the Hydro Shop first.
No changes in the plants. The Shiva Shanti is going to be do big for the tent soon. SO much for 3x the height, try 4. Don't know what to do with her now. She's got nute probs everywhere but is growing like a weed. LOL
TY for all of your advice!!! Sorry I'm behind on pics... many to shrink
I'll get more specific later... it 6am and I have to sleep!
))) FF is $$$$$$$$$$$WOw, I replied to this already, but it didn't show up!!! All that writing is gone. I'll work on it again, links and questions. I'm a slower writer and am aggravated to see 4 hours of work disappear.
These other fertilizers you both mentioned are looking very affordable. I'm still reading about these. Which products from these 3 companies are you guys using? Do I need one for acid loving plants? You fellas use a separate Bloom and Grow? I am so delighted to see good products for such a fair price!
)))) TY!!!!!!!!!I did go to Lowes for the Lime. They had none so I asked the garden gal when she'd get some in. She says she's worked there for 8 years and they've never carried Lime. There was nothing at home Depot or Orchard Supply either. What the hell!?! There was lime in the building dept, but just a generic sandy bag. Nothing about Dolomite on it. Is this useful? My neighbor bought me a tiny 2.5lb "Fast Acting Lime Plus". Says it raises the soil PH. Uh, raising PH is more alkaline, the opposite of what lime does. Am I reading that wrong? The tiny bag does 400Sq feet and claims it neutralizes... which is at least true. I also looked for Age Old, Dyna Grow, and Jacks Classic. I found miracle Grow has hogged the market. It's all these places seem to carry. Once I figure this out, I'll have to mail order. :-( I'll try the Hydro Shop first.
No changes in the plants. The Shiva Shanti is going to be do big for the tent soon. SO much for 3x the height, try 4. Don't know what to do with her now. She's got nute probs everywhere but is growing like a weed. LOL
TY for all of your advice!!! Sorry I'm behind on pics... many to shrink
I'll get more specific later... it 6am and I have to sleep!
Droopy Dog
New Member
What the Hell indeed! I don't think that garden girl knows what's what. EVERYBODY has it here, only Lowes has the ground, everyone else, the pellets and pallets of it. Epsoma has like a 5# bag if they carry it.
Ask her for 'soil sweetener', that might ring a bell with her. LOL
Don't confuse ground limestone with the fruit. LOL It will raise pH to a point since it has a pH of 7, but not over.
What your friend has sounds like hydrated (quick) lime. This stuff is tricky to use and VERY easy to over apply and burn your plants. It is a world away from the ground limestone which is hard to over apply.
I'll get into the fertilizers later. You've been spending a lot of $$$$ for marketing hype aimed at inexperienced growers.
DD
Ask her for 'soil sweetener', that might ring a bell with her. LOL
Don't confuse ground limestone with the fruit. LOL It will raise pH to a point since it has a pH of 7, but not over.
What your friend has sounds like hydrated (quick) lime. This stuff is tricky to use and VERY easy to over apply and burn your plants. It is a world away from the ground limestone which is hard to over apply.
I'll get into the fertilizers later. You've been spending a lot of $$$$ for marketing hype aimed at inexperienced growers.
DD
Hogley
New Member
What is the temperature of the water when you're feeding or flushing the plants?
- Thread starter
- #27
Lusi
New Member
Lessons learned...
Well, I think the problems is solved. Every thing I read and all people's input says over and over it's a PH issue. I have two PH soil meters, Litmus paper, and a liquid aquarium tester prior to the L. paper. They all agreed with each other, within a 1/2 point. I used Litmus paper for every bucket of water I poured. The water sat out for minimum 24 hours, usually 5 days before I test it. My last grow had to suffer with the water as is and they didn't have this many issues, just magnesium. I think M tends to show up when a higher PH locks it out?
Yesterday, I got so disgusted with this mess, I headed out with my photos to the hydro shop. The only way to check my soil meters, papers, and liquid tests is go and buy yet another tester, this time a good one. I sat about picking everyone's brains... all the old growers hang around there, good place to go. The only conclusion was PH, of course. He gave me a used PH pen someone had returned, to take home and try, but when he showed me how to use it, it didn't work. He said he's had 7 of these PH pens returned with in the last 4 months. There's only one model /brand he's stuck with for 9 years, because he's never had one returned. I coughed up another $100 for a mid quality Hanna PH pen with dual calibration and the solutions. I pay the tax to order locally, but no shipping plus they match prices and guarantee their products and show how to use them. That means something.
Sure enough, I tested the water from tap and sitting out, then with the PH Down I usually use. An employee in that same place told me to use 15ml per gallon. There's no instructions on the bottle. My pH strips and soil meters always read between 6.5 and 7. How could all 3 be wrong? Well, my tap water is 8.0, once out a few days, 7.6. Not 6.8. My gallon treated with 15ml PH down, as the guy said. My reading was 3.2 for the treated water??!!! No way!
Can you guys make a gallon up with tap water and add 15ml, 1 Tbl, then tell me what your reading is?? The 15ML made the water 6.0 from 6.8, according to my tests. That is 3 points different from the pa! It takes only 1.25 ML, not 15ML, to PH gallon with this new meter. Is the meter close correct? I know your plain tap water is not the same as mine, but it will be clear if your test also shows the PHed water 4-5 points below the starting point! Please Let me know! It's hard to believe it's right, but the calibration solution shows 7 when it should. I knew everyone will have different readings. It's enough to assure me if the meter is right or wrong.
Lucky for my plants, they've only been watered with PHed water for 2 months, 2-3 times. Better yet, I did not PH the water when they were fertilized. The seed trays had distilled or bottled water, so no harm there other than the 6mj seeds I tossed out, that never sprouted. So the damage was already being undone when I transplanted last week and didn't PH the water this time. It the tap water is 7.5-8 it should neutralize the soil. Thee plants look better, but several leaves each day are showing problems. The new soil also seems a hit, but holds water more than I like.
Thank you all of you for helping me out. I'm sorry it took so long to cough up the money for a good meter. I was planning on ordering the Milwaukee entry level meter for $20, but considering the next model up. After dealing with the fiasco on the ripped tent and useless internet products, I had enough of mail order and the returns headaches. Lesson learned... Where PH is concerned, it is worth the money to buy quality, even from the start. No skimping on PH meters, grow medium, and ballasts. So far.
I'm still looking for lime, but forgot to check the hydro store. I called Lowes and they again said they have never carried lime, only in the building section. I looked in person before finding help. The man said different store in different states carry different products. What exactly is building lime? Is it possible it's the same?
Can ya all share which products from Dyna Grow, Age Old, and Jack's Classic you use? Are the products for acid loving or Tomato plants better to use than the regular? Not sure if they work with the lime or not. LMK
Thank you all for the help and the lesson on penny pinching. It is nearly impossible for a newbie to figure out where to invest the extra money on quality items, and where to buy low and upgrade later.
I'll include the latest photos I took and show progress pics. Hopeful someone will find them useful eventually.
Well, I think the problems is solved. Every thing I read and all people's input says over and over it's a PH issue. I have two PH soil meters, Litmus paper, and a liquid aquarium tester prior to the L. paper. They all agreed with each other, within a 1/2 point. I used Litmus paper for every bucket of water I poured. The water sat out for minimum 24 hours, usually 5 days before I test it. My last grow had to suffer with the water as is and they didn't have this many issues, just magnesium. I think M tends to show up when a higher PH locks it out?
Yesterday, I got so disgusted with this mess, I headed out with my photos to the hydro shop. The only way to check my soil meters, papers, and liquid tests is go and buy yet another tester, this time a good one. I sat about picking everyone's brains... all the old growers hang around there, good place to go. The only conclusion was PH, of course. He gave me a used PH pen someone had returned, to take home and try, but when he showed me how to use it, it didn't work. He said he's had 7 of these PH pens returned with in the last 4 months. There's only one model /brand he's stuck with for 9 years, because he's never had one returned. I coughed up another $100 for a mid quality Hanna PH pen with dual calibration and the solutions. I pay the tax to order locally, but no shipping plus they match prices and guarantee their products and show how to use them. That means something.
Sure enough, I tested the water from tap and sitting out, then with the PH Down I usually use. An employee in that same place told me to use 15ml per gallon. There's no instructions on the bottle. My pH strips and soil meters always read between 6.5 and 7. How could all 3 be wrong? Well, my tap water is 8.0, once out a few days, 7.6. Not 6.8. My gallon treated with 15ml PH down, as the guy said. My reading was 3.2 for the treated water??!!! No way!
Can you guys make a gallon up with tap water and add 15ml, 1 Tbl, then tell me what your reading is?? The 15ML made the water 6.0 from 6.8, according to my tests. That is 3 points different from the pa! It takes only 1.25 ML, not 15ML, to PH gallon with this new meter. Is the meter close correct? I know your plain tap water is not the same as mine, but it will be clear if your test also shows the PHed water 4-5 points below the starting point! Please Let me know! It's hard to believe it's right, but the calibration solution shows 7 when it should. I knew everyone will have different readings. It's enough to assure me if the meter is right or wrong.
Lucky for my plants, they've only been watered with PHed water for 2 months, 2-3 times. Better yet, I did not PH the water when they were fertilized. The seed trays had distilled or bottled water, so no harm there other than the 6mj seeds I tossed out, that never sprouted. So the damage was already being undone when I transplanted last week and didn't PH the water this time. It the tap water is 7.5-8 it should neutralize the soil. Thee plants look better, but several leaves each day are showing problems. The new soil also seems a hit, but holds water more than I like.
Thank you all of you for helping me out. I'm sorry it took so long to cough up the money for a good meter. I was planning on ordering the Milwaukee entry level meter for $20, but considering the next model up. After dealing with the fiasco on the ripped tent and useless internet products, I had enough of mail order and the returns headaches. Lesson learned... Where PH is concerned, it is worth the money to buy quality, even from the start. No skimping on PH meters, grow medium, and ballasts. So far.
I'm still looking for lime, but forgot to check the hydro store. I called Lowes and they again said they have never carried lime, only in the building section. I looked in person before finding help. The man said different store in different states carry different products. What exactly is building lime? Is it possible it's the same?
Can ya all share which products from Dyna Grow, Age Old, and Jack's Classic you use? Are the products for acid loving or Tomato plants better to use than the regular? Not sure if they work with the lime or not. LMK
Thank you all for the help and the lesson on penny pinching. It is nearly impossible for a newbie to figure out where to invest the extra money on quality items, and where to buy low and upgrade later.
I'll include the latest photos I took and show progress pics. Hopeful someone will find them useful eventually.
- Thread starter
- #28
Lusi
New Member
Here are some of the better photos from this past week. There will be more in the journal if I can ever update it. My home journal is on a Google calender on my phone. It won't sink with the computer so I can paste the plant schedules. So much for being organized. :-(
The new problems with one GDP clone are not found in any source I have. What is it?!
TY for all the help!! I hope to hear back soon anyone's results or info on PH Down.
GDP clones. After all of this, I STILL have no clue what ailment causes leaves like this?? This plant is diff than the other GDP next to it:
GDP without the leaf stripes.
New clones from Shiva Santy. Look just like the mother's probs
White Skunk droopy leaves, soft stems
White skunk, see leaf droop and curls on the bottom leaves, and Shiva Shanti, yellow leaves are sort of visible
Shiva Shanti buds and roots
The new problems with one GDP clone are not found in any source I have. What is it?!
TY for all the help!! I hope to hear back soon anyone's results or info on PH Down.
GDP clones. After all of this, I STILL have no clue what ailment causes leaves like this?? This plant is diff than the other GDP next to it:
GDP without the leaf stripes.
New clones from Shiva Santy. Look just like the mother's probs
White Skunk droopy leaves, soft stems
White skunk, see leaf droop and curls on the bottom leaves, and Shiva Shanti, yellow leaves are sort of visible
Shiva Shanti buds and roots
burrr
New Member
Re: Lessons learned...
I do the same thing with my PH down, add 15ml to a gallon of water.
then I use that gallon as PH down, a little at a time.
My gallon treated with 15ml PH down, as the guy said. My reading was 3.2 for the treated water??!!! No way!
Can you guys make a gallon up with tap water and add 15ml, 1 Tbl, then tell me what your reading is??
I do the same thing with my PH down, add 15ml to a gallon of water.
then I use that gallon as PH down, a little at a time.
Droopy Dog
New Member
Re: Lessons learned...
That sounds like a good idea.
To drop my tap only takes 1/4TSP or so for a gallon.
I'm not surprised at a 3. whatever using 15ml/gallon. That's an awful lot, close to 12 times the amount I use.
Hydro store should have some kind of lime.
DD
That sounds like a good idea.
To drop my tap only takes 1/4TSP or so for a gallon.
I'm not surprised at a 3. whatever using 15ml/gallon. That's an awful lot, close to 12 times the amount I use.
Hydro store should have some kind of lime.
DD
The303Stoner
New Member
1 - 2 ml in a gal of Colorado tap. My second grow I started adding to much acid I was using a soil tester. Now I add acid to my flush water to help lock out the nitrogen(A Technique used by the green house seeds on youtube) they dont need it in Just Right Extra during grow or bloom. Dnya grow is complete they been around forever but its not organic and have no micro biology. I used Age Old Organics "Dry Fruit on my current finishing grow I can't complain. I also just started a side by side of my tea base and Age old, my base and tiger bloom, and bloomtastic, 3rd my base, Jamaican bat guano, and Humboldt Duce Duce. we'll see how it go's.
McCrackin
New Member
I looked at your photos and it was like looking into a past thing I had going...
The yellowing is nute def. Probably nitrogen and phosphorus from overwatering. I would flush and then let them dry out.
The remainder of your problems is probably secondary to the inital problem.
If this happened to me, I would transplant to 5 gallons buckets using the best soil and then I would refrain from over-watering and I would not add anything except water for 4 weeks at least. If the problems didn't resolve I would look for bugs.
I had this problem and got kelp powder fromt he hydro store, dried them out and added 2.2 grams per gallon one time and the problems resolved.
Something about kelp that helped my plants. The stuff actually buffers against over-watering.
I like my transplant idea the best.
The yellowing is nute def. Probably nitrogen and phosphorus from overwatering. I would flush and then let them dry out.
The remainder of your problems is probably secondary to the inital problem.
If this happened to me, I would transplant to 5 gallons buckets using the best soil and then I would refrain from over-watering and I would not add anything except water for 4 weeks at least. If the problems didn't resolve I would look for bugs.
I had this problem and got kelp powder fromt he hydro store, dried them out and added 2.2 grams per gallon one time and the problems resolved.
Something about kelp that helped my plants. The stuff actually buffers against over-watering.
I like my transplant idea the best.
Hey guys, I'm a new grower and I need a little help can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?
