When to swap from 6500K to 2700K CFLs when switching to 12/12

[HiTech-Hate]

Ok, like the title says, after I put my plants into 12/12 should I just change out all the bulbs right away, or wait a few days?

I don't want to stress them by big changes, that's all, I figure inducing flowering is a big enough change, so would changing all my CFLs at once (10 bulbs) also be a big change? Or maybe switch out one bulb a day? Or maybe its totally irrelevant and i'm making something out of nothing?

 

[ThaRealTreJay]

I know that different bulbs produce different rays of light. Plants absorb only a few spectrums of light which CFL's produce (versus a HPS which produces few of the rays needed for photosynthesis).

So i would say it would be a good idea to introduce different lights a couple at a time. That way if what I said is true, the different light can slowly be introduced with little stress.

Here is some good reading on CFL's

 

[HiTech-Hate]

I know that different bulbs produce different rays of light. Plants absorb only a few spectrums of light which CFL's produce (versus a HPS which produces few of the rays needed for photosynthesis).

So i would say it would be a good idea to introduce different lights a couple at a time. That way if what I said is true, the different light can slowly be introduced with little stress.

Here is some good reading on CFL's

O I know all about light quanta, PAR spectrum, and even how the technical function of a fluorescent bulb (eg. mercury's absorption spectra). Being a scientist has its advantages.

This thread was intended to hopefully get the response of people who have actually done a CFL grow from start to finish, and what their experiences were when switching to 12/12.

For your information though, CFLs, HPS. MH, incandescent ... every (white) light produces light quanta of EVERY wavelength the plant responds to photosynthetically. The difference is the intensity of any given wavelength, which is described by the PAR spectrum for that lamp.

Plants absorb light with 2 PEAK wavelengths (~450nm 'blue' and 650nm 'red'), but that doesn't mean plants just ignore all other light, in fact they use an array of carotenoid pigments to capture wavelengths of light whose energy would otherwise damage the photosynthetic reaction center (eg. light with wavelength smaller then 450nm) to store its energy, and then shuttle it to the photoreactive pigments involved in photosynthesis/electron transport.

... Anyways ... HPS can still be used to veg plants, as it still produces light quanta of all wavelengths, its just that a relatively large quantity of the light it produces is in the 'red' region of the EM spectrum, as you can see if you look at the PAR spectrum of an HPS lamp.

CFL's would only produce a distribution of light characterized by several sharp peaks, each of which correspond to the spectral line emission of mercury (whose peak line emissions dominate the low wavelength end of the EM spectrum, eg. blue light), and no light at wavelengths outside of mercury's BB emission spectra ... if it weren't for the fact that CFL (in fact all fluorescent) lamps were coated in a photoreactive compound such as phosphorous.

The emission spectra of phosphorous overlaps with mercury's to produce the range of visible light in the EM spectrum. If not for phosphorus or whatever photoreactive compound, all mercury vapor lamps wouldn't produce white light, but rather an annoying blue light, much of which can't even be detected by the human eye.

The reason therefore that CFLs produce more 'blue' light is the mechanism of their function, that is the dominant mercury emission spectra in its light output. Conversely, the emission spectra of sodium is heavy in the 'red/orange' region, but more importantly it produces a pretty much uniform distribution of spectral lines spanning the entire visible spectrum, which is why an HPS bulb isn't coated, it requires no supplemental spectral line emissions like mercury does. The consequence though is that it lacks the HIGH INTENSITY low wavelength ('blue') light quanta that is characteristic of mercury's emission. It still has low wavelength ('blue') light, its emission spectra is just not dominated by it like mercury (which is dominated SO MUCH that a supplemental emission source eg. phosphorous is required).

The fundamental difference between 2700K and 6500K CFL bulbs is the photoreactive coating on the bulb, and the respective emission spectra it produces.

!!!!!!!!!!!! SCIENCE IS FUN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your efforts though, and sorry for that long drawn out post, its just that reading "versus a HPS which produces few of the rays needed for photosynthesis" made me cringe hard lol !

 

[ThaRealTreJay]

yeah lol clearly you know alot more then I do about the subject, I infact made almost made an error in choosing my CFL bulbs, Now I use 3 5000k "Daylight" (blue light) CFL's for my vegetative process.

When it come time to flower I think i'm gonna just by a few more real strong white light CFL's (I believe, whichever has the orange-ish light, my 2700k's produce)

So tell me, what and how many CFL's are you using for flowering?

 

[HiTech-Hate]

yeah lol clearly you know alot more then I do about the subject, I infact made almost made an error in choosing my CFL bulbs, Now I use 3 5000k "Daylight" (blue light) CFL's for my vegetative process.

When it come time to flower I think i'm gonna just by a few more real strong white light CFL's (I believe, whichever has the orange-ish light, my 2700k's produce)

So tell me, what and how many CFL's are you using for flowering?

The fixture I built holds two rows of five CFLs, so I will using 10 bulbs for flowering.

I'm just using cheap 23w CFLs I bought at Lowes because I can't find a Canadian retailer of higher wattage bulbs for reasonable cost (i've been to 1000bulbs.com but shipping is too much).

For veg i've had 10 23W 6500K (blue) bulbs in there, and when I switch to flower (not for another few weeks actually. until my clones have rooted and vegged for 2 weeks or so), i'm just going to switch them with 10 23W 2700K bulbs.

In all honesty, though I built the fixture to accommodate higher wattage bulbs, these 10 23W bulbs have been kicking my ass in the heat department lol.

Without the filter I managed to get temps at stable 75F, but now that there's a filter around the exhaust fans the temp is sitting at 85 and i'm still trying to figure out what to do about it (exhaust is 2 high static pressure 120mm fans pushing 133CFM EACH)

So I might end up taking 2 bulbs out or whatever to see (luckily I wired the fixture in parallel), but that would still piss me off since I built the thing to use 10 lights !!!

Nevber did I think CFLs would be such a bitch for heat, I have a 400W MH ballast/lamp I was gonna use at the start, but decided to give CFLs a try due to heat (growing space is a small dresser). Glad I didn't use the MH I guess, but still pissed these CFLs are hotter then I expected.

 

[ThaRealTreJay]

sounds like you have plenty of light!

I'm thinking of getting 8, 42watt (150w) for flowering. They sell them in singles for 10 bucks a pop! gonna be an investment but 4 per plant using 3 splitters to make a dome would be pretty nice.

But, once my clones get to big for their grow box I'm gonna switch them to pots and use probably another set of 8 27watt (100w); they go for 6 bucks for a pack of two!
Again 4 per plant and 3 splitters to make a dome.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Ok, like the title says, after I put my plants into 12/12 should I just change out all the bulbs right away, or wait a few days?

I don't want to stress them by big changes, that's all, I figure inducing flowering is a big enough change, so would changing all my CFLs at once (10 bulbs) also be a big change? Or maybe switch out one bulb a day? Or maybe its totally irrelevant and i'm making something out of nothing?

I've got a dedicated "Bloom Room" on a 12/12 with 2700k and 3000k High Output T5s and a 125 watt CFL. I just put the plants I want to flower in there and leave them to it.

Never had any problems with them adapting to the change over. I guess you could slowly change out your bulbs if you had only one grow room, but I seriously doubt that the plants are going to react one way or the other. The light cycle would be more likely to affect them, and once they start thinking about producing bud, they are going to want the lower temp bloom bulbs anyway.

Bottom line... For the best results, you obviously need to use lower temp bloom bulbs for flowering, but in terms of changing the lights out, I would say whatever is easiest for you. No sense overcomplicating something that doesn't need to be complicated at all.

My two cents on the subject.

 

[The Lurker]

Depends on how much of a stretch you want, HTH. Some folks will do 1/2 and 1/2 for the first three weeks of flowering (i.e. 'the stretch'), and either keep the either-or configuration, or go all low-K spectrum after that. Keeping the 6500K lights through this period and then switching over 100% will minimize stretching, and not affect overall (final) yield that much.

OR....you can use ~4100K lights throughout the whole grow, have a fairly balanced spectrum, and not worry about it. There are several growers (not on this site) who've done 1oz+ per 55w PL-L (4 pin T5 HO) consistently - see this thread for photos/examples (about halfway down):

What's the best current T5 fixture? Sun Blaze or New Wave or Tek light?

BTW, light output from CFLs is so inefficient as to be virtually unusable IMO. (On the plus side, they are cheap...) You lose a large % of light in the interior of the 'ice cream cone' (that's a technical term ), which never escapes the maze and gets reabsorbed as heat. I rather detest retrofit, bad thermal management, non-purpose-built fixture lighting solutions in general, and that swirl design tends to trap heat (which kills both the lifespan and the efficiency of fluorescents).

If your space and/or budget will allow, I strongly recommend getting one of the HTG 2ft long, two or four lamp PL-L fixtures instead. Probably the highest usable lumens/$ ratio in fluorescent lighting right now (~5000 lumens per tube!).

Cheers,

-TL

 

[Goldengoose7]

This thread was intended to hopefully get the response of people who have actually done a CFL grow from start to finish, and what their experiences were when switching to 12/12.

That's what I thought too.

The plant below was raised from seed and grown under High Output T5s and CFLs from start to finish. 6400k for veg and 2700k and 3000k for flower. Didn't stagger the change of lights, I went straight from 6400k to the bloom bulbs.

Works for me.

More photos here:

Bluecheese

I would venture to say that most of the folks here on the 420 mag site are your average MMJ patients who are not made of money. We are all just looking to grow our own medicine in order to save money. If I had thousands to invest on high end lights and a custom built grow room, I would instead bank that money, save myself all the work involved in the gardening part and buy an ounce or two of GDP and Blueberry every month from my local collective and be done with it.

The disabilities that brought me into the MMJ world make it difficult and sometimes impossible to handle a lot of the work required in raising my own herb. However, without my garden, I would never be able to enjoy the quality bud I do, because I just can't afford to pay what they charge for this stuff these days. Not when I can easily go through an ounce in 2 weeks if I am having a pain filled month!

Last time I checked, BlueCheese, GDP, and Blueberry Diesel bud were all going for around $350.00 an ounce!

Like most folks here, I had to choose which way to spend my limited resources and T5s and CFLs are all I can afford and handle in my little guest closet and bathroom. I had my first vape of the above bud about an hour ago, and it is some of the best BC I have ever had! Just don't see how all those fancy lights and stuff could have made this crop any better than it already is. Definitely not enough to justify the thousands extra it would have cost me.

I think CFLs often get a bad rap. I've seen some amazing bud on this site from guys who used nothing but your typical "Lowes/Home Depot" quality CFL lights and some downright ingenius home made fixtures. Personally, those growers demonstrate a ton more skill with results far more impressive to me than seeing some megabuck growroom/harvest photos. I mean, who couldn't grow a great crop of MMJ with 10k+ worth of gear? :rolleyes3

 

[HiTech-Hate]

Thanks for the advice goldengoose, good to know theres one less thing I have to worry about in terms of fucking up my plants.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Thanks for the advice goldengoose, good to know theres one less thing I have to worry about in terms of fucking up my plants.

You're welcome!

If you get a "stretch" after putting them under the bloom bulbs and that bothers you, then try just half and half for the first two weeks and then go to all bloom.

All depends on the plants of course! I try to only flower them when they have reached that bushy/stocky looking physique.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

You're welcome!

If you get a "stretch" after putting them under the bloom bulbs and that bothers you, then try just half and half for the first two weeks and then go to all bloom.

All depends on the plants of course! I try to only flower them when they have reached that bushy/stocky looking physique.

I'm using Canna Coco and its nutes, they don't work as you described heh. Both A and B are used in equivalence throughout the grow.

Luckily I havn't had too much stretch, one is LST and growing like a mutant snake, one is the bushiest indica i've ever seen, one is still young in its life, and the 4th is probably gonna go outside.

I took some clones from the indica and am waiting for them to root, and will be veging them for 2 weeks along with all the other plants before I put em into flower, so won't be until mid july I guess, just getting things ready ...

That will have put the other plants at 9 weeks of veg. but since their not very tall i'm not too worried.

 

[Goldengoose7]

I'm using Canna Coco and its nutes, they don't work as you described heh. Both A and B are used in equivalence throughout the grow.

Luckily I havn't had too much stretch, one is LST and growing like a mutant snake, one is the bushiest indica i've ever seen, one is still young in its life, and the 4th is probably gonna go outside.

I took some clones from the indica and am waiting for them to root, and will be veging them for 2 weeks along with all the other plants before I put em into flower, so won't be until mid july I guess, just getting things ready ...

That will have put the other plants at 9 weeks of veg. but since their not very tall i'm not too worried.

I've heard and read about those A & B type treatments but I have never used them myself. There really is no limit to when you can start to flower these plants within reason of course.

For me, I have a limit of about 60" height in my Bloom Room. Basically, that is as high as the light panel can go! lol! I've got a couple of Blueberry clones that I was about to put in there, but my brand new Turbo Klone machine died yesterday and I lost all my cuttings!

Now I have to hold off flowering those two mother plants until I can get a new pump sent to me, and I see enough new growth to take another dozen or so cuttings.

Good luck with your grow! Have you started a grow journal here yet? I put it off myself but now I am really enjoying having a vehicle to put progress shots for others and later for my own research down the road!

Mine is linked below in my sig.

Cheers.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

I've heard and read about those A & B type treatments but I have never used them myself. There really is no limit to when you can start to flower these plants within reason of course.

For me, I have a limit of about 60" height in my Bloom Room. Basically, that is as high as the light panel can go! lol! I've got a couple of Blueberry clones that I was about to put in there, but my brand new Turbo Klone machine died yesterday and I lost all my cuttings!

Now I have to hold off flowering those two mother plants until I can get a new pump sent to me, and I see enough new growth to take another dozen or so cuttings.

Good luck with your grow! Have you started a grow journal here yet? I put it off myself but now I am really enjoying having a vehicle to put progress shots for others and later for my own research down the road!

Mine is linked below in my sig.

Cheers.

I only have one space to grow in, so no veg and flower rooms. Not what I want, but not a choice I have heh. So i'm trying to coordinate everything so they are all ready to flower at the same time.

I'm hoping the 'stasis' method works, that is that I can take a cutting and keep it in the fridge until i'm ready to veg again (supposedly they are viable for up to 8 months).

I don't use cloners, heh K.I.S.S , just a dome and some rockwool cubes for me

No grow journal, and there won't be one either. There are random pics of my plants on here from some posts i've made though

Thanks, and GL to you too, though it doesn't look like you need it, your plants look fantastic, and you also have a really nice grow room/setup. Clothing dresser power over here (I have all the good tools I need though, eg. TDS/pH/etc. being a biochemist I would be naked without my analytical instruments!! lol

 

[Goldengoose7]

A Biochemist? WOW! Very Cool! That should definitely give you an edge when it comes to making sense out of all the various nutrient blends and what not!

"Stasis" eh? Never heard of that approach, but it does kind of make sense using a fridge to preserve cuttings for a future time! Sounds like if I had been thinking more clearly, I might have been able to save my dozen cuttings out of my broken Turbo Klone using that technique! Do you have more info/link on the details?

When I first got into raising my own MMJ, I started off with just one grow room for everything. What is now my Bloom Room used to be a veg room too, but as I started trying to grow more strains, and found myself with plants at all different stages of growth, I knew I needed more options. I decided to convert an unused 9' x 2.5' guest room closet into a veg room, and make the bathroom a permanent Bloom Room. Summer is the best because I can take all my vegging plants outside and let the sun do the growing! Nothing beats the real thing!

I hear ya about the cloners. I bought mine because I have had the WORST LUCK in manually cloning Cannabis the way you are doing. Probably because with my disability, I can't tend to them as diligently as I probably need to. The cloner was purchased to put an end to the "baby-sitting" aspects, which under normal circumstances it would have done.

Ironically, the recirculating pump breaks down less than 24 hours after I plugged it in for the first time, and I loose all my cuttings and hard work anyway. And it only cost me $380.00 for the privilege! :rolleyes3 :surrender:

Thanks for the compliments on my plants and such! I'm simply applying all my previous gardening experience with conventional crops to this one and for the most part, it is serving me well!

Good luck with your grow! Definitely post some photos of at least the finished product when the time comes!

Cheers.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

A Biochemist? WOW! Very Cool! That should definitely give you an edge when it comes to making sense out of all the various nutrient blends and what not!

"Stasis" eh? Never heard of that approach, but it does kind of make sense using a fridge to preserve cuttings for a future time! Sounds like if I had been thinking more clearly, I might have been able to save my dozen cuttings out of my broken Turbo Klone using that technique! Do you have more info/link on the details?

When I first got into raising my own MMJ, I started off with just one grow room for everything. What is now my Bloom Room used to be a veg room too, but as I started trying to grow more strains, and found myself with plants at all different stages of growth, I knew I needed more options. I decided to convert an unused 9' x 2.5' guest room closet into a veg room, and make the bathroom a permanent Bloom Room. Summer is the best because I can take all my vegging plants outside and let the sun do the growing! Nothing beats the real thing!

I hear ya about the cloners. I bought mine because I have had the WORST LUCK in manually cloning Cannabis the way you are doing. Probably because with my disability, I can't tend to them as diligently as I probably need to. The cloner was purchased to put an end to the "baby-sitting" aspects, which under normal circumstances it would have done.

Ironically, the recirculating pump breaks down less than 24 hours after I plugged it in for the first time, and I loose all my cuttings and hard work anyway. And it only cost me $380.00 for the privilege! :rolleyes3 :surrender:

Thanks for the compliments on my plants and such! I'm simply applying all my previous gardening experience with conventional crops to this one and for the most part, it is serving me well!

Good luck with your grow! Definitely post some photos of at least the finished product when the time comes!

Cheers.

Believe it or not being a Biochemist has actually been a significant disadvantage lol, I think its because I become TOO analytical, and still not a botanist, so I can't read what my plants want heh. Its funny all these crazy nutrient blends are made of just simple salts that u can buy in the lab for pennies on the pound, prob, is most companies want their formula secret, so they don't really give too many details about the chelaters and other compounds they add to their mix.

I read about the stasis thing in the grow guide on this forum, heh, here are 2 direct links to the 2 threads:

How can I hold clones in stasis? The fridge method

Clones in Stasis

Yeah the $380 price tag is why I made the comment lol, nothing against u or anyone else using em, just can't justify that cost myself, nor can I afford it heh (i'm unemployed because of my disability, and the disability cheque ... only goes so far, which isnt very )

 

[Goldengoose7]

Cool! Thanks for the links! I will check them out! I have always wondered what the raw material costs of all these expensive nute blends were! I suspected that they were pennies on the dollar, and that whole industry was probably highly profitable! Sounds like it is, and you can make your own for REAL CHEAP "IF" you know what you are doing!

You probably still have a better chance at that than the rest of us around here!

I hear ya about the SSI disability payments! Sounds like our employment (lack thereof) is very similar! My monthly check isn't much either, and I have to be VERY creative in making it stretch to cover my expenses! Still, compared to a lot of folks who have used up all their unemployment benefits and are now looking at ZERO income a month, we should count our blessings I guess... as limited as they may be.

I don't regret buying the cloner, depending on how the problem is resolved, I may regret buying the brand that I did. If the company makes things right and I end up with a reliable machine out of the deal it will be a god send for me, since without one, my cloning days will be over.

Take care, thanks again for the links, and I'm sure we will run into each other again in another thread soon!