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Will too many crosses cause a Frankenstein effect?

Anthony Suszko

Well-Known Member
I am new to this hobby and noticed allot of strains are combinations plus maybe a Ruderalis attached to make it behave to shape size or form.. If you took a Northern Big Bud, Widow, and X'ed it with a Regular Cindy99, Amnesia, Skunk would that be too much causing a genetic Frankenstein, and are females that accepting of pollination from Sativa, Indica, and Ruderalis where it just doesnt mater?
 

Justin Goody

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
Many years ago I watched a video on cannabis genetics and it talked about this. How it was possible to overbreed looking for certain traits, and end up with a very bland plant. I wish I could find the video again, it had a way of breaking it down for people like me to understand.
 

Anthony Suszko

Well-Known Member
I don’t think they have seen it yet

Just checked they chose to ignore it lol
Don’t wanna share trade secrets I guess XD
It was on my mind because I intend on pollinating a few plants and dont want to weaken or degrade a plants strain attributes-potency by an action I make.. The only reason I would introduce a Ruderalis into the equation is to chop down size into something that's more manageable for me.. For some height and size is what attracts them to the strain along with potency.. The size of some of these Sativa Colombian and Mexican strains reach a height of 10 plus feet.. For me, I also feel more comfortable keeping it the same family lineage with Reg-male plants thinking this helps preserve some of the plants historical roots and not adding a fresh new set of another plants genetics into the mix. My first breeding attempt will be crossing a Maple Leaf Fem with a Reg Afghani because I like whats already there as far as High and other resin, bud size producing attributes and intent here is to stock up on seed only.. I'll play arround with the Columbians and Mex's in future grows once I feel more comfortable with the process.

PS: I'm also thinking it's Sensi's policy not to discus and give secrets away for free after doing all the work..
 
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Anthony Suszko

Well-Known Member
Many years ago I watched a video on cannabis genetics and it talked about this. How it was possible to overbreed looking for certain traits, and end up with a very bland plant. I wish I could find the video again, it had a way of breaking it down for people like me to understand.
Cool, this part of the hobby makes me itch to try it out.. but like you said, introducing too many X's can backfire...
 

Justin Goody

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
Cool, this part of the hobby makes me itch to try it out.. but like you said, introducing too many X's can backfire...
I did breed several hybrids myself and never came up with anything I didn’t love, but that was many years ago. I look forward to pollination the next chance I have, just to make something really unique again. But if I were really starting from scratch I’d be all over something like pure Afghan or Hindu Kush and adding in something newer to spice it up my way. For now it’s easier to leave the genetics and testing to the people who are out there already making it happen. Looking forward to my wedding cheesecake seeds coming from @SeedsMan :headbanger:
 

Anthony Suszko

Well-Known Member
The original Landrace strains are what interests me right now and maybe its from a historical perspective smoking up something that's ages old going back to biblical times traded on the silk road generations ago.. or something that was island locked and brought back by captain Cook on one of the bounties expeditions..
6 Landrace Strains From Around The World
  • Hindu Kush, Pakistan
  • Pure Afghan, Afghanistan
  • Lamb’s Bread, Jamaica
  • Acapulco Gold, Mexico
  • Durban Poison, Africa
  • Panama Red, Central America
 
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Jackalope

Well-Known Member
That Frankenstein effect you speak of is where they are finding those awesome plants. Most strains are mutts these days. Breeding mutts with mutts equals mutts every time. Over the last few years I have grown them all. New, old, and hybrids. Hybrids are getting stronger all the time. The effects of those strains is what have changed the most. To me the effects on some strains go down as THC goes up. Just because they are stronger does not mean they are more fun to smoke.

This last grow I grew mostly high dollar genetics. I found that there was great plants in every strain. If I was going to save mothers I would have found a good one in each strain. Think is the rest of the plants were just average. The fact that I found great plants with growing less then 5 seeds of each tells a lot. Genetics are getting better. You still need to find the right ones.

I have grown land race stuff before. I won't again. Not all of them do well indoors. The ones that do well seem to have great effects. They just are not as strong as people think they are. All are great for breeding. Only a few are great for smoking.
 

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
That's something I noticed with a few of the commercial strains around here. One version of Critical Kush that was labelled as 11% felt stronger than a 17% version. That could be down to poor quality control, or just bad test results, but I think there's a cannabinoid or two that are currently being overlooked that play a role.
 

Anthony Suszko

Well-Known Member
That Frankenstein effect you speak of is where they are finding those awesome plants. Most strains are mutts these days. Breeding mutts with mutts equals mutts every time. Over the last few years I have grown them all. New, old, and hybrids. Hybrids are getting stronger all the time. The effects of those strains is what have changed the most. To me the effects on some strains go down as THC goes up. Just because they are stronger does not mean they are more fun to smoke.

This last grow I grew mostly high dollar genetics. I found that there was great plants in every strain. If I was going to save mothers I would have found a good one in each strain. Think is the rest of the plants were just average. The fact that I found great plants with growing less then 5 seeds of each tells a lot. Genetics are getting better. You still need to find the right ones.

I have grown land race stuff before. I won't again. Not all of them do well indoors. The ones that do well seem to have great effects. They just are not as strong as people think they are. All are great for breeding. Only a few are great for smoking.
I noticed from reading descriptions in seed vendor catalogs that it's usually a cross between 2 or 3 plants at most..and I think adding anything more than that you start losing original set markers for things like potency THC levels bud size.. all the things the plants original make up had.. When breeding to a new Regular male you may pick up its new wanted or unwanted markers than the father of the original strain gave the plant and this is where i see problems of watering down a strain over time if you keep adding new papa's to it's genetic pool.. I know from reading the description-history on Afghani #1( Landrace). Sensi seeds developed their powerful line on it... When they develop new seed lines its not based on random Frankenstein pairings of 6 random crosses.. they take a strong Landrace and develop it's potential by crossing it to a plant that already has favorable markers in it's genetics. They wont add a Mazar low THC and 0% CBD to the mix if its only quality is sedative or giving you the munchies unless its for a medicinal strain where people smoking it are using it for insomnia and eating disorders.. If you start out with Durban Poison as your Landrace base, develop it's potential by crossing it with Amnesia, GreenCrack or AK47 or any other strain you fancy for it's for hard hitting buzz / high 29%+ THC potential but my original point was by adding too many X's you could spoil what you already have because there is only so many times you can cross a plant strain before it becomes a slurpy one eyed mutant losing its original qualities..

Random strain description from CannaSOS.. Girlscout Cookies shows Parents of the strain to be OG Kush and Durbin Poison ( one of the original Land Race strains ) I randomly off the top of my head chose this cookie strain and wound up with a Landrace in it's make up.. and strain line is limited to 1 X.
Genetics
AKA: Cookies Strain or GSC. Girl Scout Cookies cannabis strain is a cross between OG Kush and Durban Poison.
 
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Anthony Suszko

Well-Known Member
That's something I noticed with a few of the commercial strains around here. One version of Critical Kush that was labelled as 11% felt stronger than a 17% version. That could be down to poor quality control, or just bad test results, but I think there's a cannabinoid or two that are currently being overlooked that play a role.
THC amounts vary drastically and depend allot on UV range and nutrition you give them they can potentially go over the 17% range of THC given the right Red/Blue light wave intensity and nutrient diet.. and this is why it varies from the person growing it... You may not have the same light set up or cocktail mix of food that brought it up to the 17% range.. Same goes for outdoor growers who may not be in the plants preferred growing range where sunlight may be weaker in zone 9 then it is in zone 2..

There's one growers Youtube i recently watched who grew monster buds based on a small 500 watt lighting system and aerated super nutrient cocktail ..If I run across it will post if youtube hasn't deleted it.. they are very touchy still on people posting pot growing stuff
 
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Dwight Monk

420 Support
420 Staff
That's something I noticed with a few of the commercial strains around here. One version of Critical Kush that was labelled as 11% felt stronger than a 17% version. That could be down to poor quality control, or just bad test results, but I think there's a cannabinoid or two that are currently being overlooked that play a role.

Why I don't shop by numbers and more by smell or looks, as other things involved in the "high" than just thc#'s and it's more of a complex chemical makeup than by going off one thing to base "what is better to you".
 

Justin Goody

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
Why I don't shop by numbers and more by smell or looks, as other things involved in the "high" than just thc#'s and it's more of a complex chemical makeup than by going off one thing to base "what is better to you".
Totally. What good is 28% if it gives me a headache, has no taste, or gives me no pleasure to smoke. :blunt:
 

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
THC amounts vary drastically and depend allot on UV range and nutrition you give them they can potentially go over the 17% range of THC given the right Red/Blue light waves and nutrient diet.. and this is why it varies from the person growing it... You may not have the same light set up or cocktail mix of food that brought it up to the 17% range.. Same goes for outdoor growers who may not be in the plants preferred growing range where sunlight may be weaker in zone 9 then it is in zone 2..

Theres one growers Youtube i recently watched who grew monster buds based on a 500 watt lighting system and super nutriant cocktail ..If I run across it will post if youtube hasnt deleted it.. they are very touchy still on people posting pot growing stuff
They were both grown in greenhouses, with ebb and flow (or whatever it's called, I don't do hydro) systems by a couple of the LPs up here. I was referring to the difference in effects, with the lower THC sample having stronger effects than the higher THC. The lower THC bud had a much better high.
I do agree that the skill/technique of the grower has a huge impact though.
 

Anthony Suszko

Well-Known Member
They were both grown in greenhouses, with ebb and flow (or whatever it's called, I don't do hydro) systems by a couple of the LPs up here. I was referring to the difference in effects, with the lower THC sample having stronger effects than the higher THC. The lower THC bud had a much better high.
I do agree that the skill/technique of the grower has a huge impact though.
Agree 100% .. " with the lower THC sample having stronger effects than the higher THC. The lower THC bud had a much better high." some strains can give you a better all day high V.S. some of the one's that bang you over the head with a hammer..
 
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Jackalope

Well-Known Member
The argument of Effects over Percentage is going to go on for a long time to come. It has always been around. That is the basis for breeding. Take plant one that has great effects and cross it with plant two that has a high THC percentage. Hopefully the hybrid will have both traits.

Frankenstiens have already showed up. I find the same freak plant in a few different cheap feminized strains. It is basically useless. Feminizing is going to cause more freaks then regular genetics.

In the end it is not the genetics that cause the problems it is the breeders. Crossing 2 strains with too much genetic diversity gives the resulting hybrid a million ways to go. That is why they try and use a land race here and there. To decrease all that genetic info. D.J.'s Blueberry and Grimms C-99 do the same thing as a land race does. That is why people use them.

As you mention there are lots of high THC strains that are almost useless. There are also lots of great strains that have come out of all these hybrids.
 
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