Winging It In Winter By The Window: Soil Auto Grow

[Carmen Ray]

Great journal and great plants Carmen. Would of taken home Nug of the month in my humble opinion!

Hey LizardMate, thanks so much

 

[Carmen Ray]

Oh gosh, a last thing...

Skin Salve (ala Shed et al)
I thought I'd add this in, since I am now using my canna-EVO as a salve rather than orally. Either I have a high tolerance or there is not much thc in there from the larf and trim. I packed more decarbed trim in this time and literally just covered it with EVO before bombing it in the oven for the infusion process.

I don't do it precisely the way that @InTheShed does it by putting it in the fridge for a while, because I forgot that step, so perhaps Shed, you could chime in here. I know you recently reposted the method but after lots of keyword searching I gave up lol. Your actual salve is much more ambitious than mine and it sounds lovely because you use roots, leaves, stems the whole lot. I wish I could link it here for reference.

@HashGirl has a recipe for a great looking pain cream. Sorry but my search skills weren't up to the task of finding the recipe for this one either. If you have the link bookmarked HG, please link it in here for reference.

Anyway, what I did was decarb the larf and trim
Place in glass jar. I crush with a spoon to get it finer so that the oil gets in contact with more plant
Pour in only enough oil to cover the decarb, cover with tin foil
Place in the oven at 170 degrees F / 76 degreed C for 8 hours, stirring and shaking every now and again
Remove from oven over night (I think this is when it is meant to go in the fridge)
Repeat this process two more times then strain and use either orally or as I have discovered, as a skin salve. Or even both

I get itchy sun spots whenever I am in the sun. I think they are the not so good kind. Using the oil on the spots takes the itch away instantly and this lasts for quite a while. I guess the healing properties in the oil also have anti-inflammatory effects because they reduce the reaction substantially, and they are gone within days. Sun tanning is one of life's great pleasures and I don't wish to give it up... I love the sun like canna loves the sun!

Thanks for stopping by

 

[InTheShed]

Olive oil isn't the best topical since it's one of the least absorbable into the skin, so next time you want to make one oil for both uses you should probably go with grapeseed oil.

Not strong enough to get you high? That probably means there's too much oil to the amount of THC in there, so you could rerun the same oil with more flower to make it stronger.

What was your decarb method?

 

[Azimuth]

I thought I'd add this in, since I am now using my canna-EVO as a salve rather than orally. Either I have a high tolerance or there is not much thc in there from the larf and trim. I packed more decarbed trim in this time and literally just covered it with EVO before bombing it in the oven for the infusion process.

Shed's got some links to studies that show the thc isn't absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin. I made some massage oil using coconut oil and the recipient reported dry mouth and dry eyes so maybe some iof it is? Could just as well have been a placebo effect I guess since I was clear about disclsure.

But, either way, dermally doesn't sem to be the best path for the psychoactive effects at least.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Olive oil isn't the best topical since it's one of the least absorbable into the skin, so next time you want to make one oil for both uses you should probably go with grapeseed oil.

Not strong enough to get you high? That probably means there's too much oil to the amount of THC in there, so you could rerun the same oil with more flower to make it stronger.

What was your decarb method?

Thanks Shed, it's good to know about the grapeseed oil for topicals. I'd also like to have the link to your roots and all skin salve if you are happy to share that link in this thread? Ah here it is, I found it

I break the herb down as much as possible but I don't grind it. I decarb in a stainless steel bowl in the oven at 110 degrees C / 230 degrees F for 40 minutes. I find it easier to crush the herb by hand once it has been toasted. Then it goes into jars for infusion.

Shed's got some links to studies that show the thc isn't absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin. I made some massage oil using coconut oil and the recipient reported dry mouth and dry eyes so maybe some iof it is? Could just as well have been a placebo effect I guess since I was clear about disclsure.

But, either way, dermally doesn't sem to be the best path for the psychoactive effects at least.

I hear you about possible placebo effect Azi but there may also be a chance that the side effects of cannabis consumption were really present? In my case I intended the oil as an oral med but because it didn't make me high I decided to try it on sun spots and the like, and it really works well for that, remarkably well I now know to use grape seed oil for topicals instead of EVO.

 

[HashGirl]

Yes indeedy, woot woot! I will want to decide if I am going to do two or three autos in the grow. What size pot did you use and how big did the Wookie get? do you have measurements in your notes? Was she a large, medium or smaller plant? What was the yield? My grow conditions will be the same as they are now in all likelihood, so that makes for somewhat smaller plants and smaller yields. That's why I would ideally like to grow three at once.

Why don't you just grow one but train it for a bigger yield? Or even 2. The most I got from one autoflower was 143 grams. How much do you want to end up with?

Oh gosh, a last thing...

Skin Salve (ala Shed et al)
I thought I'd add this in, since I am now using my canna-EVO as a salve rather than orally. Either I have a high tolerance or there is not much thc in there from the larf and trim. I packed more decarbed trim in this time and literally just covered it with EVO before bombing it in the oven for the infusion process.

I don't do it precisely the way that @InTheShed does it by putting it in the fridge for a while, because I forgot that step, so perhaps Shed, you could chime in here. I know you recently reposted the method but after lots of keyword searching I gave up lol. Your actual salve is much more ambitious than mine and it sounds lovely because you use roots, leaves, stems the whole lot. I wish I could link it here for reference.

@HashGirl has a recipe for a great looking pain cream. Sorry but my search skills weren't up to the task of finding the recipe for this one either. If you have the link bookmarked HG, please link it in here for reference.

Here you go, Carmen - HashGirl's Pain Cream Recipe

Sun tanning is one of life's great pleasures and I don't wish to give it up... I love the sun like canna loves the sun!

100% agree. There is nothing that feels as good as the sun on my skin. I love the sun, too.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Why don't you just grow one but train it for a bigger yield? Or even 2. The most I got from one autoflower was 143 grams. How much do you want to end up with?

I think I had just enough footprint to get those two photoperiod plants to the finish line, so I am thinking I could do two autos. I have observed with autos that some are teeny and others are giants, others somewhere in between. I don't know what I can yield. I got a small and airy harvest from both autos I grew this year and so I'd want to improve on that result. I was pretty nervous this first auto grow so I didn't push any boundaries. I don't know how to train an auto properly. These first two flowered in their third week, not giving me much time. So that will be my lesson going forward.

I go through about 30 grams a month in smokeable. What I need is enough weed to see me through a year because buying it isn't an option. I can possibly get two grows in... May to August, and July to October and then I will have family commitments again in December, March and April. These arrangements repeat annually. It's a frustration, that I have these time constraints but family comes first.

Oh I could cry. I have just priced Auto seeds for Bruce Banner. They are only sold in five packs and are R1188 for the five seeds. I never have that kind of spare change lol. The Wedding Cake I can afford, so I will deffo do a Wedding Cake and a Wookie ! Decision made!

Here you go, Carmen - HashGirl's Pain Cream Recipe

You're a star, thank you HG!

 

[HashGirl]

I think I had just enough footprint to get those two photoperiod plants to the finish line, so I am thinking I could do two autos. I have observed with autos that some are teeny and others are giants, others somewhere in between. I don't know what I can yield. I got a small and airy harvest from both autos I grew this year and so I'd want to improve on that result. I was pretty nervous this first auto grow so I didn't push any boundaries. I don't know how to train an auto properly. These first two flowered in their third week, not giving me much time. So that will be my lesson going forward.

Training an auto isn't a lot different from training a photo, in my opinion. Timing can be an issue but even that may not be as much of an issue as I previously thought since @BooWho2 tops her autos when they're starting to flower.

There are a lot of really good auto growers on the website and implementing Carcass' training should help give you a better yield next grow.

I go through about 30 grams a month in smokeable. What I need is enough weed to see me through a year because buying it isn't an option. I can possibly get two grows in... May to August, and July to October and then I will have family commitments again in December, March and April. These arrangements repeat annually. It's a frustration, that I have these time constraints but family comes first.

I wish you lived nearby. I would totally share my buds with you.

Oh I could cry. I have just priced Auto seeds for Bruce Banner. They are only sold in five packs and are R1188 for the five seeds. I never have that kind of spare change lol. The Wedding Cake I can afford, so I will deffo do a Wedding Cake and a Wookie ! Decision made!

Well, that's disappointing. Can you only buy seeds from your local seed seller or could you order them from one of the sponsors? @Herbies Seeds has a great selection and their prices are reasonable.

 

[Carmen Ray]

@Herbies Seeds has a great selection and their prices are reasonable.

Just having a look now. The prices are good and it's great you can get single seeds if you want. Shipping to this part of the world is insane but everything considered it is a good deal still. I will do some shopping there when the time comes.

I wish you lived nearby. I would totally share my buds with you.

Thank you for the thought HG that's such a nice thing

Training an auto isn't a lot different from training a photo, in my opinion. Timing can be an issue but even that may not be as much of an issue as I previously thought since @BooWho2 tops her autos when they're starting to flower.

There are a lot of really good auto growers on the website and implementing Carcass' training should help give you a better yield next grow.

I'm looking forward to this upcoming grow more and more!

 

[Azimuth]

I decarb in a stainless steel bowl in the oven at 110 degrees C / 230 degrees F for 40 minutes.

You likely are not decarbing fully. The GW Pharma patent lays out what they determined was the most effective for their product:

GW Pharmaceuticals was issued a patent for decarb process. Here’s what their white lab coats came up with . Data source is SensiSeeds website

A patent owned by the UK company GW Pharmaceuticals defines the ideal conditions for decarboxylation: It involves low temperatures and a relatively long period of heating. This process ensures that 95% of the cannabinoid acids are converted into their phenol form without many decomposition products being created. Another benefit: The aromatic terpenes remain intact. Terpenes are responsible for the aroma, taste and they also influence the effect of cannabis.

According to the patent, decarboxylation in a lab setting should be carried out in two steps:

1. First heat the cannabis briefly, to make any remaining moisture evaporate.
2. Then heat the plant material twice more for longer periods.

The best results involve 15 minutes at a temperature of 105°C and then 60 to 120 minutes at the same temperature.

If you are using a marijuana variety which has a very high CBD content, (defined as >90% CBD as a percentage of the total cannabinoid content), then the second phase needs to be 30 minutes at 140°C.

 

[Azimuth]

I have observed with autos that some are teeny and others are giants, others somewhere in between. I don't know what I can yield. I got a small and airy harvest from both autos I grew this year and so I'd want to improve on that result. I was pretty nervous this first auto grow so I didn't push any boundaries. I don't know how to train an auto properly. These first two flowered in their third week, not giving me much time. So that will be my lesson going forward.

Autos are marketed as a great 'intro to growing' plant but I think you have to already be a good grower to grow them well. Many of the autos we see grown are small plants and much of that comes from they way those plants grow.

Since they flower on a time schedule and not a light cycle, any stress can permanently stunt them since you can't just extend veg time to fix an issue. The most common stress is improper watering either under or overwatering in any of the weeks of veg and that's why I'm such a big proponent of growing with SIPs. The pots allow you to have perfect watering every time. Plants grow bigger and healthier for basically the same amount of effort.

I grow in 2 gallon (8 L) buckets because of my space issues even though the standard size is 5 gallons (20L).

 

[InTheShed]

You likely are not decarbing fully. The GW Pharma patent lays out what they determined was the most effective for their product:

Since they're completely wrong about the CBD part it makes me suspicious of the rest. My CBD is completely decarbed at THC times and temps.

 

[Lerugged]

If purely for topical I recommend Jojoba oil as it has molecules that are the best size for skin absorption by far. Just pricey. Grape seed is second best as far as I remember.

 

[Carmen Ray]

You likely are not decarbing fully. The GW Pharma patent lays out what they determined was the most effective for their product:

Gosh, I find it very worrying that a pharmaceutical company is allowed to patent a process. Why would they do that? What do they stand to gain?

Whilst this oil is made from larf and trim, my flower oil is potent. I do have a high tolerance so it could be that or it could be that there weren't enough trichomes to make a potent oil, or I didn't decarb well enough.

I have a quote by the Celt that I copied into my notes a few years ago but I can't find the thread in here. It was a most interesting discussion about decarbing and infusing oils.

Here's the quote and maybe Shed will remember the conversation thread: "That 178F is somewhat miss leading. It requires temperature AND time for decarbing. And they are inversely dependant on one another. Higher temps = shorter time, but lower temps = longer time. Bud decarbs in a jar at room temps, but is a very very slow process. It’s also not a linear process, it starts off fast, but as more and more THCa converts to THC, the process becomes slower and slower. The reason 178F is often quoted, is because this appears to be the temp that converts the most THC in the shortest time, minimizing the loss of terpenes."

Since they're completely wrong about the CBD part it makes me suspicious of the rest. My CBD is completely decarbed at THC times and temps.

OK, Do you think I am doing it correctly ? I've just asked a friend how he does his because he recently gave me some oil he'd made and it was the tastiest oil I have ever had. I await his response.

 

[InTheShed]

Higher temps = shorter time, but lower temps = longer time. Bud decarbs in a jar at room temps, but is a very very slow process.

Two things. The first is that though weed may slowly decarb over the years in jars (and it could be decaying to CBN at a faster rate), that's not exactly the same as a time vs temp curve.

Second thing is that you can't bake a cake at 200° for 8 hours, it needs to reach the correct internal temperature for the magic to happen. Below a certain temperature the extra molecule may not break free to convert from the acid form.

I decarb at 240° for between 70 and 90 minutes depending on what the flowers are in.

OK, Do you think I am doing it correctly ? I've just asked a friend how he does his because he recently gave me some oil he'd made and it was the tastiest oil I have ever had. I await his response.

So do we! Tasty oil usually isn't made with decarbed flowers though. Usually it's made from extract that was decarbed after.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Autos are marketed as a great 'intro to growing' plant but I think you have to already be a good grower to grow them well. Many of the autos we see grown are small plants and much of that comes from they way those plants grow.

Since they flower on a time schedule and not a light cycle, any stress can permanently stunt them since you can't just extend veg time to fix an issue. The most common stress is improper watering either under or overwatering in any of the weeks of veg and that's why I'm such a big proponent of growing with SIPs. The pots allow you to have perfect watering every time. Plants grow bigger and healthier for basically the same amount of effort.

I grow in 2 gallon (8 L) buckets because of my space issues even though the standard size is 5 gallons (20L).

I really do want to try SIP. I just don't have the capital to invest in the pots and irrigation at this time though. It would sort out my some of my issues with time constraints because I could leave them for a while when I go out of town. It seems a very attractive system. I use wicking as a watering method sometimes and it is based on that principle is it not? I will investigate this further for future grows.

My autos were very stressed in their early stages. I worry about using the same soil again given the issues with the yellowing leaves. It might not be so "hot" the next time around because I will use the chard soil and bump it up with a recharge pack in advance of the grow. I hope that will work. We'll see.

How tall do your plants get in the 1 Liter buckets, and what sort of girth?

 

[Carmen Ray]

If purely for topical I recommend Jojoba oil as it has molecules that are the best size for skin absorption by far. Just pricey. Grape seed is second best as far as I remember.

I love Jojoba. I buy it and then it sits. I should really use it instead of being precious about it. I have used grape seed as my favorite oil in soap making. It's a goodie. They are both silky oils and do absorb into the skin most effectively. I forgot that you also make a winning salve!

 

[Carmen Ray]

I decarb at 240° for between 70 and 90 minutes depending on what the flowers are in.

This is good to know, thank you!

This is what my friend said: "I am not 100% sure as it's also the first time that it turned out like that for me. Usually I get this nutty, almost burned kind of taste.

I decarb in 1 liter consol mason jars, with the lid flipped upside down and the ring only loosely screwed on. It doesn't smell a lot like that and the terps seem to stick inside of the jar. I think I heat the oven to 100 degrees Celsius, place a dry towel on a backing pan and place the jar on the towel. I don't fill the jar completely so I can take it out of the oven and shake it every 20 minutes or so. After an hour I take out the jar.

I think I read somewhere that the terps become gas and settle down on the inside walls of the jar. So this time I just poured warm coconut oil till the buds are covered, basically using the same jar I used for the decarb. Maybe that saved the terps.

Then I just submerge the jar in a simmering water bath for another 1-2 hours stirring occasionally. If I got several jars and want a strong oil I just reuse the already infused oil for another jar."

 

[Lerugged]

Nice. Here is mine if you want it.
100g flower dried
1L EVOO
Decarb at 110 c for 100 minutes or so.
Allow to cool to room temp (sometimes I'll place the decarbed buds in the container into the freezer.
Once all cooled, I add in the oil and return to the oven and mix every few hours. Oven temp is about 60 c on average. I don't use water at all in the process.
After about 12 hours of infusing I'll remove it and allow to cool.
Then freeze it over night and in the morning remove from freezer, bring back up to room temp and then it goes back into the oven to infuse for another 6 hours or so.
Strain and enjoy.
It does help a ton with pain. My Mrs had 2 home births using only that massaged into her base of spine. Both were dream births. Currently I have a broken hand and after using the oil it reels enveloped in angels wings or something similar.

 

[Lerugged]

I must add that a few drops taken orally really messes you up. Haha. I use this in my gummies recipes as well and it's easy to dose and always works. Hard