Wonderland Grow

[Reave]

Chill out a bit. That plant isn’t dieing. Its taking calcium a semi-mobile nute and using it. My one calcium hog which I have told you about before cropped out just fine. Get some cal mag a feed that bitch. What was your medium again?

Just looked up that plagron light mix. It’s a soiless medium. Makes sure ph is never above 6.2. Calcium uptake will be at lower ph range. Aim for 5.8.

 

[AliceGG]

Thank you very much, Reave, I honestly didn't know that! Most of the time I was above 6.2, probably it was the problem. And I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have used ionised water. I know all its advantages, and the main reason I used it was because I was afraid of salts building up. Looks like I would have been better sticking with my tapwater.
A new lesson every day.

I ordered Advanced Nutrients Sensi Cal-Mag Xtra, it'll take a few days to arrive. Today I'm feeding with tapwater, I put out a 2 gallon bucket yesterday.

 

[Reave]

I was reading it is similar to pro mix hp so it may buffer the ph for you so that still might not be your issue or you would of had more problems I imagine. I just looked up at their website and saw it was Pete and perlite. Seems like a popular medium outside North America. I’m sure there is lots of good info on it. Pro mix hp for example is soiless but you can water at a higher ph because the medium will correct it for you.

If the plants are growing fast under you led it can be another reason for calcium shortage.

 

[AliceGG]

I also think it has to be something with the led. There are a few shaded leaves which yellowed, but most of the spots and fading are on parts which get direct light.

 

[Reave]

I also think it has to be something with the led. There are a few shaded leaves which yellowed, but most of the spots and fading are on parts which get direct light.

Yes fast photosynthesis.

 

[AliceGG]

I've just fed the girls.
Good news: I didn't find gnats in the top layer of my soil. Not a single one! I used the same wooden spoon to dig around, but nothing, which is great. The sticky traps had quite a few on them, I put them back after watering.

The AK was quite dry, Jack still held some moisture. It was ~8l of water (tapwater this time) again. The AK got about 5l, and the remaining 3l went into Jack's pot.
6ml FishMix
24ml BioBloom
18ml TopMax
9ml ActiVera
9ml AlgaMic
no BioGrow this time.

I watered very slowly, but this 8l was again "too much", I got plenty of runoff. I set the ph to around 6.0, as you said @Reave. However, checking after 15 minutes, the ph of the runoff is quite high, somewhere around 6.9. Does it mean that my substrate is off? I've heard that the pf of the runoff can sometimes be lower, but this is new to me, getting higher ph than what went in.

I'm leaving for today, curious to see how they respond to the feeding.
Happy growing to all of you!

 

[AliceGG]

Hmm, after I quickly checked it once more, the ph is more like 7.4. I used both, ph strips and the hydroponic liquid ph test kit. The ph strip can only measure up to 7.0, higher than that the strip becomes blue. Now it's as blue as it can be. The liquid kit seems to be more precise and it measures up to 8.5. According to that it's now ~7.4.

Any idea what's happening?

 

[HutchBenedict]

I also think it has to be something with the led. There are a few shaded leaves which yellowed, but most of the spots and fading are on parts which get direct light.

Hi Alice! I agree with Penny about the calcium. I've read that plants require more calcium when grown under LEDs so that may be why you see more fading directly under the lights. As you know I'm no expert but I agree with Pbas that your plants look fine. I think your Sensi Cal Mag Xtra will fix your calcium issues but be very careful of the nitrogen. It has 4-0-0 and can be a bit much if you don't watch the nitrogen of your other supplements. Once you get your calmag I wonder if you should flush out your substrate to kind of start fresh? I've also seen people flush with just water and calmag. A flush will leave you unable to feed for a few days until the pots get dry so that's why I think adding the calmag to your flush might be good. Any thoughts on this @Pennywise?

 

[Reave]

I’ll see if I can dig up some more info on your medium. I doubt ph is your issue or you would be having all kinds of issues. Some of these mediums are fairly forgiving they are designed to be easy.

 

[Reave]

Ok so is this what you are using?

Lightmix is for growing profitably and fertilizing your plants at your own insight.

Lightmix is priced economally and minimally fertilized. It's an airy substrate because of peat and worm castings and it has good drainage because of the added perlite.

www.plagron.com

They say on the page that ph needs to be adjusted before feed but does not say what too. Since it is Pete and perlite I’m pretty sure that is a soiless medium and you should be feeding from 5.8 to 6.2. Strips would be annoying to use. I bought a cheap ph pen and calibrated it.

Either way I emailed them and I will let you know what they say.

 

[Reave]

Found what I was looking for. Get your ph dialed in. It matters. This image is from plagron nutes but the same should apply to biobizz or any other nutes going into that medium.

 

[Pennywise]

Ask @InTheShed he runs Pro Mix so will know what your ph should be going in. Leaves exposed to direct light will show Calcium issues before shaded leaves.

 

[Reave]

Ok so Biobizz is organic and was designed for soil. That light mix is soiless even though it looks like soil. They were designed to feed microbes in the soil. I would still try and adjust the ph of them to 6.0 even though biobizz doesn’t really seem to say what to set it to. On their feeding schedule they have two sections. The second section is for light mix.

 

[Reave]

Ask @InTheShed he runs Pro Mix so will know what your ph should be going in. Leaves exposed to direct light will show Calcium issues before shaded leaves.

It isn’t pro mix though. It’s something else. Plagron light mix. Doesn’t buffer the ph as far as I can tell.

Edit: I would email biobizz and tell them what you are growing in and ask them if ph matters. Organic sis a different world and it may not matter. They do say on the feed sheet to adjust it but not to what.

 

[Pennywise]

If it's soilless I would adjust to 6.0-6.2 to start.

 

[bobrown14]

I only found one product that contains Spinosad. It's called Laser (Dow Agrosciences). Quantity is 1litre, there's 240g of spinosad substance in it. Here comes the price. ~315$ for a 1l bottle. It must be a really useful product for this price, I have no doubt about that.
But, to be honest, here in Central/Eastern Europe I make about 660$ (converted) a month. I'm not ready to spend half of that on a pesticide product. Is it this expensive in the US too?

Dow figures. They make it here and in Canada for pennies retail.

I can send you some really really good skin lotion. It might even have spinosad in it.

You can use it topically to fend off mites and other insects like tics. JK. lol

They've been feeding spinosad to dogs as a flea/tic control which I found interesting.

Yellow leaves like that down low with necrosis - you can trim them off.

It will help with air flow at the soil line so the gnats get blown away. Also help later on with other pests.

Air flow at the soil line is your best almost free pest control.

Plants do look like they are in need of Calcium. EWC is a good choice. Top dress.

I supply enough Ca in my soil. Every once in a while I get that yellowing with lo-down necrosis when I let my VEG plants go too long and they get root bound.

 

[AliceGG]

Thanks for the tips and help everyone, especially you @Reave for the research you've done.
I have read about these products too, but I realized there's a misunderstanding on my side. Up until this point, I thought that you can put coco coir into your pots, and if it's not coco than everything else is considered "soil". I thought that it's a general name for substrates, even if there is only peat moss and perlite in it. It probably partly comes down to translating mistakes, because in my language, which is the language of the local webshop I ordered a lot of things for my garden, Plagron LightMix is called a "soil mixture". Due to this shortcoming in my vocabulary, I've never thought about lightmix being a soilless substrate.

I haven't found much info about adjusting ph in the plagron mix, but for BioBizz, on two occassions, I ran into statements that you do not have to adjust the ph of your water with BB nutes.
1, from their website:
Do you need to adjust the pH of Biobizz nutrients after you mix them up? No. With Biobizz you are feeding the soil and specifically the microbes in the soil. So you can let those microbes and the roots of your plants adjust the pH in the root zone – you don’t need to change the pH of the nutrient solution before you water it in. If you must adjust the pH, don’t worry, it won’t necessarily help your garden, but it will not hurt your plants.

2, from their representative:

Here are other interesting things from their website:
How do you balance the pH/EC of Biobizz soil/fertilizer?

When using Biobizz soils, you don’t need to measure the EC and pH value like you would when using a mineral medium. Biobizz products only contain natural organic elements, giving them a very low Electrical Conductivity (EC) value. And while the organic elements can’t be measured, they do have a self-regulating system, which helps maintain the pH values at the correct level.

How does the pH value of my soil influence the growth of plants?

Understanding soil pH value is key to growing healthy plants. The pH value of soil indicates its level of acidity and this affects the bacterial life and metabolism of the plants you grow. Having a soil pH value that’s too low or too high, or tinkering with the pH too much, can often lead to plants absorbing less nutrients and, therefore, a less successful harvest. Low pH-values may also end up poisoning the plant, while high pH-value leads to decreased growth and flowering. The ideal pH value for soil is between 6.3 and 6.5. We make Biobizz soil with this pH value so that when you use it, under normal circumstances, you won’t have to adjust the pH value of your water. Just let the Biobizz products work their magic for you!

Here they say I should aim for 6.8-7.2 before adding the nutes.
How can I influence the pH value?

If the pH of the water you’re using is much higher than the standard pH value of 7.0-7.3, you could try using apple vinegar or citric acid to reduce its acidity – aim for a value between 6.8 and 7.2. Once it’s nearer the correct level, add the Biobizz nutrient.

This one below is particularly interesting. My tap is over 500ppm, still I need extra calcium now. I'm not sure though, if I would have sticked with tapwater instead of ionised water, it is probable that these calcium deficiency issued wouldn't have popped up. Who knows.
Do I need to add calcium or magnesium to Biobizz?

In general, no. If your local water source has less than 200 ppm of dissolved mineral content you may need to add calcium and/or magnesium. We suggest top-dressing or amending with dolomite lime for a balanced source of calcium and magnesium. Epsom salt (magnesium sulphate) is another source of readily available magnesium approved for organic gardeners.

But then they add one more little thing. How do I know if the minerals are non-transferable?
When to use cal-mag with our line?

When your water is under 200 ppm or minerals in your water source are non-transferable.

These, of course, are true if one uses BioBizz Lightmix.
The info I could find is that their lightmix should be very similar to the Plagron lightmix I use, it's also peat moss and perlite. I haven't found much about buffer capability though.
With all that said, apart from the first ~2weeks of this grow, I always tried to aim between 6.0 and 6.7, most of the time around 6.5.
Excluding the last feeding, when it was 6.0. I still have no idea how could the runoff be well over 7.0. I usually don't clean the runoff trays, only pour out the water from them. Probably it was due to the sediments in the tray from earlier waterings?

Hi Alice! I agree with Penny about the calcium. I've read that plants require more calcium when grown under LEDs so that may be why you see more fading directly under the lights. As you know I'm no expert but I agree with Pbas that your plants look fine. I think your Sensi Cal Mag Xtra will fix your calcium issues but be very careful of the nitrogen. It has 4-0-0 and can be a bit much if you don't watch the nitrogen of your other supplements. Once you get your calmag I wonder if you should flush out your substrate to kind of start fresh? I've also seen people flush with just water and calmag. A flush will leave you unable to feed for a few days until the pots get dry so that's why I think adding the calmag to your flush might be good. Any thoughts on this @Pennywise?

Thanks Hutch, very good tip on the calmag containing nitrogen. The last feeding with tapwater on Saturday seemed to stop the spreading of the brown spots, or at least slowed it down to some extent. But I'm certain I'll add a few drops of calmag when I get it. I believe I should cut back on BioGrow and FishMix to not provide any more nitrogen when adding calmag.

Ok so is this what you are using?

Lightmix is for growing profitably and fertilizing your plants at your own insight.

Lightmix is priced economally and minimally fertilized. It's an airy substrate because of peat and worm castings and it has good drainage because of the added perlite.

www.plagron.com

They say on the page that ph needs to be adjusted before feed but does not say what too. Since it is Pete and perlite I’m pretty sure that is a soiless medium and you should be feeding from 5.8 to 6.2. Strips would be annoying to use. I bought a cheap ph pen and calibrated it.

Either way I emailed them and I will let you know what they say.

Yes, this is what I use. I took a photo of the backside of its plastic package before I threw it out, I remember there's additional info on it. I'm at the office now, I'll check that photo when I get home.

Ok so Biobizz is organic and was designed for soil. That light mix is soiless even though it looks like soil. They were designed to feed microbes in the soil. I would still try and adjust the ph of them to 6.0 even though biobizz doesn’t really seem to say what to set it to. On their feeding schedule they have two sections. The second section is for light mix.

This relates to what I mentioned above. I've also read that these nutes are designed for soil, but how come then that their own lightmix is made of peat and perlite?

Dow figures. They make it here and in Canada for pennies retail.

I can send you some really really good skin lotion. It might even have spinosad in it.

You can use it topically to fend off mites and other insects like tics. JK. lol

They've been feeding spinosad to dogs as a flea/tic control which I found interesting.

Yellow leaves like that down low with necrosis - you can trim them off.

It will help with air flow at the soil line so the gnats get blown away. Also help later on with other pests.

Air flow at the soil line is your best almost free pest control.

Plants do look like they are in need of Calcium. EWC is a good choice. Top dress.

I supply enough Ca in my soil. Every once in a while I get that yellowing with lo-down necrosis when I let my VEG plants go too long and they get root bound.

I think I'm a bit late to provide any slow releasing calcium source, but it's something I should consider for my next grow. Filling up the pots to their edge would also help a lot with airflow. The airspace over the soil surface is indeed a bit "closed" this way that the lower leaves cover the pot.
As for gnats, I guess I eliminated them. I will take out the sticky traps today, I haven't seen gnats anywhere in the house for 2 or 3 days now. It was (knock-knock) easier to get rid of them than I thought.

No pics now, but my plants are quite ok.
The AK certainly reached her final size, and I think Jack is very close too. They are 9 (AK) and 8 (Jack) weeks old today.
This Friday I'm paying the rental fee, so my landlords would visit. I'm going to skip it this time, hoping that by the time of their next visit, my plants will be chopped and dried already. That is 5 weeks and 3 days from now (June 14th). I guess 7 to 10 days should be enough for drying, which means I should harvest on June 4th at the latest. That sounds reasonable, by that time the ladies will be 12 and 13 weeks old. I really hope that the 9-10 weeks from seed to harvest info given by RQS is not that inaccurate.

One small bit before I end this post. Although RQS didn't list citrus smell/taste as a charachteristic of the AK, yesterday when I worked around the plants, I unintentionally rubbed my hand against her flowers. Smelling my hand after it, I could smell a very powerful citrus aroma, almost like lemongrass. I hope it doesn't go away, I love it!

 

[Reave]

because in my language, which is the language of the local webshop I ordered a lot of things for my garden, Plagron LightMix is called a "soil mixture".

It is not your translation. The companies use the word soil interchangeable. When I started my grow I was using something called “organic soil” right on the package. It was actually a soiless mix and needed to be ph’d to5.8ish.

I believe that soil is about a micro biology that you are feeding whereas the inert mediums are basically hydro.

From grotek dot net:

Soilless mixes are a form of hydroponics but are more forgiving than true water culture. They use inert media instead of natural topsoil. This customized soil structure can provide exceptional balance between available oxygen and water to the plants. These methods can respond well to the use of organics and it is possible to build some microbial diversity. This can take advantage of the benefits of biodiversity in natural soil, more than in true water systems.

Soilless gardening is generally done in containers, which makes it much easier for growers to isolate infected or infested plants from the system to avoid more serious outbreaks of disease or insect pressure. For indoor growers, this type of gardening is a better place to start than true water culture; in fact many hobby growers will move on to water culture and then regress back to soilless growing due to the forgiving nature and adequate yields compared with the constant monitoring required in water systems.

Soil growing could be done indoors but is generally limited to outdoor situations and is the most traditional and prevalent form of gardening on the planet. The focus of soil gardening is not on the single season but should be seen more as a long term project. Soil building is the primary goal, with healthy plants the outcome of good soil management.

Organic practices will lead to the highest level and most diverse microbiology available to a gardener and this ecosystem can provide benefits not found in hydroponic systems. Although the overall system is more diverse, most soil gardens will not grow plants as quickly as a hydroponic system will. There is less direct control over nutrient supply and of course the gardener is at the mercy of true weather, rather than the manufactured environment of an indoor garden.

 

[bobrown14]

I grow indoors in organic soil. Same soil too for the last several years.

Only control really is the genetics I choose. Thats fine with me I don't like to mess with my plants much and just let them grow naturally.

I use malted barley ground fine and add it to my soil as an amendment at up-pot with EWC and Mycos.

Malted barley speeds up finish time 10-15% which is big. 50-60 day plants can finish flowering in 45 days. I get that regularly for Indica mix and Sativa 90 days will finish in 75 days.

 

[StoneOtter]

I also got a silencer for the ducts.

Hi Salty, Never heard of a duct silencer. What's that?