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SauronBlue

Well-Known Member
Thanks for stopping by. I will start a grow journal tomorrow, but I really need some advice on my first grow. So, I have a 39"x39"x72" agromax tent with a 400w HPS. I'm using white widow seeds from nl seeds and wappa from paradise seeds. I used paper towels to germinate the seeds, and now I have them in rockwool(?) under a tupperware humidity dome. there is a hand towel folded and placed over the dome to reduce the light, which is 55" above the dome. there is minimal ventilation, but it stays about 90f after an hour of light 'till lights out, and about 75f at "night". I've just moved the little ladies into their new homes, and used vermiculite to fill the holes above them(burying them 1/2 - 1 seed length into the cubes. I moistened the cubes, and left a little extra water in the tray for them to soak up (hardly covered the bottom), and left a little dish of water in there to evaporate, and keep humidity up.
Can you guys please give me any suggestions, as I've already cooked my first batch of seeds (trying to heat them during germination, but never checked to see that the temp went up to 105f - they all cooked as they popped), so I'm down to my last beans, and they were damn expensive for these feminized seeds! I can't afford to ruin any more, so any and all critiques and advice are welcome, thanks
PS sorry for the horrible hps pics
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SauronBlue

Well-Known Member
Any input is appreciated, c'mon lurkers! I see there are views, don't be shy to post :)
I'm also using Blue Planet 2 part under seedling schedule (2.5ml per gal of each grow and bloom) in RO water, which I ph'ed at about 5.5 after adding nutes. This is the same water I used to pop the beans with. I just realized that I forgot to hit them with rootiing hormone. will it be too late this afternoon to mix some in water or something, or should I just forget it? I popped them in the rockwool at 7pm yesterday, lights come on at 11a-11p, then an hour in middle of dark. They got half a cycle yesterday, and I will come home with about half of the "day" remaining.
 

Maer

New Member
I did some reading looks like GLR is a way to veg plants with less light. Seems pointless to me because what are you really saving?? 3 hours of light is the answer. If you are really concerned with saving electric just veg at 16/8.

Seedlings become plants with their second set of true leaves. Most people do clones / seedlings under 24 hours of light until then. Of course everyone has thier opinion.

It should be a T5 (1 or 2 24" above) or some low power light (couple CFL would be fine), HPS / MH is too much for a seedling. Don't worry too much about heating them up, it doesn't mean they will not sprout at 75, it just take a couple more days.

You should also have an air pump to pump some fresh air in there (the sealed container), an aquarium one should do fine.
 
you're way over thinking it.. All they need is soil water and light.. When they get bigger you can feed them nutes, but don't over complicate anything because this is where you will run into problems.

I've been growing for years and have never had a plant die on me.

MH / HPS is definitely not too much light for a seedling.. It definitely won't be able to use all of the light, but it's not too much. I found that vegging with a MH from a seedling will grow the plant so much faster than using a T5, trust me, I've used both. After a week under there, they will explode with growth

You don't need rooting hormone, you're wasting your time and money using this unless you're cloning in rockwool or another type of media. Even then, simply building a cloner bucket will solve that problem and you can throw the rooting hormone away, I never use it.

your germinating technique is way over complicated also. I take small containers, fill them with soil, water until it is soaked, then plant the seed pointy side down about 1/4" deep, then lightly cover with water. I don't even put them under the light until something breaks soil. Since I moved from using the paper towel method to this method my success rate has gone from 60% to 100%. All of these over complications is what makes growing seem so hard, when in reality, its a weed, a very simple plant, and it is very very easy to grow and take care of.
 
technically yes it is, I use a dimmable ballast so I turn it down to 50% (300w) when I have seedlings for the first week, then crank it back up. A 400w light doesn't take much power to run, my 600w light when on 24/0 only raised my electric bill $20 a month. I have a 600w light in flower running 12hrs and a 600w light in veg running 16hrs, 2 fans, and a water pump and the setup only runs me around $30 a month to power. When I ran a T5 in veg, I was averaging $25 a month increase (I have a spreadsheet that takes my usage rate * the number of hours each device is running and the power each consumes to figure these numbers out)

so my point is yes you're right, he will save power with a smaller light, but the cost to buy a T5 won't even pay itself off in savings for 2 years of use. My T5 only lasted a year before it died anyway, and that was also after a bulb replacement so in the long run he'll probably end up spending more money than if he kept the HID with WAY more lumens.

My T5 investment cost me close to $150 counting the replacement bulbs. So, even if I saved $10 a month in electricity (which in reality I only saved half that) I would still have $30 to make up to ensure the new light was a worthwhile investment.
 

IAfiend

New Member
iagree w maer...and 2 add my 2cents :). When u use the paper towel method ushould only let the seeds crack and avoid havin the taproot reach the towel...highly traumatic 2 fine roots hairs when moved or removed from towel
 
thats why its best to plant directly in soil, takes moving the root completely out of the equation and I find seedlings grow much faster as there is no initial transplant shock.

I've had several seedlings never break soil after planting once the taproot has emerged.
 

R2MNot

Well-Known Member
but if anyone thet has done GLR is out there, do I start at seedling, or not until officially in veg, or am I in veg right now? thx

GLR is fine for seedlings.
Get some air in and out of that tent.
Dont over water...make those roots do there job and go find water.
 

Twelve12

Member of the Year: 2011 - Member of the Month: Oct 2011 - Nug of the Month: Jan 2012 - Plant of the Month: Feb 2012
You're doing fine with the seedling. They don't need nutes until you see the two main leaves for hydro or 2 weeks after from seedling for soil. No need for additives/hormone either. Keeping it basic and simple. They'll do great under GLR. Once the first set of leaves comes out they'll grow like crazy. Open the humidity dome often for fresh air, I don't think you need it never had my seedling in a dome and I have my fluorescent really close. The 400w hps may be too much for them right now. I noticed veg plants do better under MH over HPS.
 

SauronBlue

Well-Known Member
WOW, guys! thanks for the feedback! So, I got some good info from your dialogue, but still uncertain on a few points; is 93f too hot for them? that's as hot as they got in there (the probe for temp is under the dome). Also, why is the humidity only at 42% (as of this morning - I'm at work 7-5 today), and how can I keep it humid in there if I have a pump running pumping into the humidity dome as maer said? I will try the direct planting method in the future, but I'm stuck with what I have for now. should I not have lights on until they break the surface? I can't see how that would be better than having light read for when they pop. Sould I leave the seedlings covered by the facecloth as they are, or uncover them? remember, the light is almost 5 feet above them.
As far as reasons for GLR, it's not just to save on electric, I saw on twelve12's perpetual journal that he got better results on GLR than he was getting using 18/6, and claims 18/6 was an improvement over 24/0 for him. faster, greener veg, with no premature sexing. the elecrtic savings that come with the reduced light usage are cool, but more important to me is the reduction in heat! It gets really hot here in summer, and having a few less hours with that bulb could really help. Aslo, decreased light hours help to keep my setup stealth, and less fan time saves more money and more noise(stealth) as well as reducing wear on all components. All in all a well-rounded light scheme IMHO.
Thanks for helping me out!!!!
:circle-of-love::thanks:
 

geno

New Member
i read several responces that said dont make it rocket sience. it is a weed and it wants to grow. soil is the easiest thing to use. sorry if you've spent alot on something else but a bucket of soil water and light is what's natural. i leave all other fancy growing to people who are hortacultus, i've never had anyone say no when mine has been passed around doesnt matter what circle
 

Truth Seeker

New Member
yea man, CFL is the way to go if your rooting!!! your doing an overkill with that HPS!!! lt looks like all the questions were answered and I liked all the 1s that I agreed with...

Well were here wit ya now brotha!!! lets get growing!!!

:peace2:
 
42% humidity is cool bro, you don't even need to put a dome on them. I've had seedlings thrive just fine in 25% humidity, the only time you really need to worry about humidity is late into flower.. You want it at 50% or below during flower to prevent bud rot.

93F is a little bit hot. You need to pull in some more fresh air, or even have a fan blowing air around in there.. My light puts out a decent amount of heat, but with a fan blowing on the plants, it keeps them comfortable.

You can lower your light a lot too. I keep my light no more than 24" above the top of the seedlings, then move it down to 8-12" depending on how much heat it's putting out when they develop a few sets of leaves, this keeps the nodes tighter and give you more branches per inch of height the plant has.. this equates to more bud sites and a higher yield.
 

SauronBlue

Well-Known Member
yea man, CFL is the way to go if your rooting!!! your doing an overkill with that HPS!!! lt looks like all the questions were answered and I liked all the 1s that I agreed with...

Well were here wit ya now brotha!!! lets get growing!!!

:peace2:

Actually, I still have a few Q's:
WOW, guys! thanks for the feedback! So, I got some good info from your dialogue, but still uncertain on a few points; is 93f too hot for them? that's as hot as they got in there (the probe for temp is under the dome). Also, why is the humidity only at 42% (as of this morning - I'm at work 7-5 today), and how can I keep it humid in there if I have a pump running pumping into the humidity dome as maer said? I will try the direct planting method in the future, but I'm stuck with what I have for now. should I not have lights on until they break the surface? I can't see how that would be better than having light read for when they pop. Sould I leave the seedlings covered by the facecloth as they are, or uncover them? remember, the light is almost 5 feet above them.

T12 posted while I was typing, and seems to think no dome is needed, but why is my space so dry? is ~40% too dry for them? maybe Twleve12 is in a more humid climate to not need a dome? I have a veg CFL bulb that I will have to get a fixture for on my way home, I guess. But the whole point of spending $250 on a light is to take advantage of all those lumens. When can I start with the 400w? When I have 2 sets of leaves? Wont it take them longer to reach that size with less light? Or will the advantages of a more blue spectrum outweigh the disadvantages at this early stage?
 
Actually, I still have a few Q's:


T12 posted while I was typing, and seems to think no dome is needed, but why is my space so dry? is ~40% too dry for them? maybe Twleve12 is in a more humid climate to not need a dome? I have a veg CFL bulb that I will have to get a fixture for on my way home, I guess. But the whole point of spending $250 on a light is to take advantage of all those lumens. When can I start with the 400w? When I have 2 sets of leaves? Wont it take them longer to reach that size with less light? Or will the advantages of a more blue spectrum outweigh the disadvantages at this early stage?

40% isn't dry, 10% would be dry and you may need a dome, but I've vegged in 25% humidity with absolutely no problems, you have no worries there. I've never used a dome for anything regardless of my humidity levels.

You don't need a CFL, use your MH light since you have it, seriously, the more lumens, the better. It will most definitely take them more time to get to the same size with less light. MH is heavy in the blue spectrum, perfect for vegging, you're doing it perfect, theres no need to change anything with your light except getting it a bit closer to your plants.

The thing you need to be concerned with is your temperature in there.. Get a fan blowing on them and monitor the temperature, should take care of your problem as long as you have fresh air coming in.
 

SauronBlue

Well-Known Member
40% isn't dry, 10% would be dry and you may need a dome, but I've vegged in 25% humidity with absolutely no problems, you have no worries there. I've never used a dome for anything regardless of my humidity levels.

You don't need a CFL, use your MH light since you have it, seriously, the more lumens, the better. It will most definitely take them more time to get to the same size with less light. MH is heavy in the blue spectrum, perfect for vegging, you're doing it perfect, theres no need to change anything with your light except getting it a bit closer to your plants.

The thing you need to be concerned with is your temperature in there.. Get a fan blowing on them and monitor the temperature, should take care of your problem as long as you have fresh air coming in.

Thanks K20(and everybody) for your help! I actually have an HPS, which is HID, but not MH or so high in blue spectrum. I've been told that I can go thru veg and bloom with just that. I think the temps will drop a bit if I take the cover off, as there is a small 6" fan blowing, but can't circulate the air under the dome. I'll have a 200cfm fan and an act.carb. filter (diy on the filter and possible bulb venting if I can find the right sized glass tube{3-4" diameter x 8-10" long}) which will keep the heat down, but I can't afford to get that for a week or two (I'm already in for $800 on all this).
Given that the seeds haven't even popped thru the vermiculite covering them(as of 7am this morning), how close should I put the HPS? I don't want to overwhelm them
 
my bad, based on your pics it looked like a MH light.. You can go through the entire cycle with the HPS bulb, your plants will most likely stretch more though because the red spectrum is suited for the flower period, and bluer light is best suited for green vegative growth. The simple method would be to keep the tent cracked or open while the light is on so you can get the fresh cooler air flowing in to replace the hot. I've grown a couple plants entirely with HPS just to see the difference, and there is quite a noticeable difference in node spacing, the HPS grown plants were more lanky and ended up taller with fewer branches. If you can, get a MH bulb for the veg period.. It isn't needed, but will improve your grow.. You can always invest in it next time around.

Any fan will work in there, I use regular old fans from the department store, $15 for a decent sized one and it blows air around very nicely, even though it gets hot in my room (~90F), the circulation makes them happy as the contact temp is much lower than the ambient temps

also didn't notice your seeds haven't broken soil yet.. To be completely honest, you don't even need a light on until they have broken ground. I usually leave my seed pots in the dark until I see something above soil, then I move them under the light. I had a few sit in the dark for 24hrs before putting under the light with no ill effects.

You won't need to worry about smell until they start flowering.. While in veg, they have a very light smell like any other green plant, it's when the buds start growing that you need to worry about odor control, so you have some time for that.. Definitely work on getting the temps under control, otherwise you're on the right track bro!

One more note, HPS puts off much more heat than MH.. for example, my 600w HPS puts out 90k lumens and my 600w MH only puts out around 55k lumens, so there is a little less heat with MH bulbs.

MH = metal halide
 
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