Okay, I think I've managed to get the light spacing and temp readings under control. I was over-complicating things, and stress I was carrying from work was blinding me to the obvious. I think the cooling/filtering is the hardest part of the whole process. I am also checking my leaves closer, and starting to get just a bit worried about 70's suggestion of a pest. I am noticing more cases of damage that I attributed to clumsiness that may be more nefarious. I'll update after special "dinner" with the fam. I use quotes b/c my grandfather wants to eat dinner at 2:30 in the afternoon. So, it's almost 11, but I already gotta start getting ready! I wonder if older people would make fun of me for eating at 10-11pm?
 
Okay, I'm being horribly inconsistent with my journaling, but I just want to throw something up. The perlite pots seem to be drinking more than the coco now, and have pretty well caught up in size, but still dont have the dense inner growth. #1 is gonna be really easy to get clones, as it's all spread out. I got an airstone and pump for the clones that don't fit in the aero. The damaged leaves at the bottom of some of them is whats's leftover from before, but there has been no spreading. The last week's growth is pretty visible in the photos. I'll chop within a week.
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I'm chopping 30-60 clones from them this week to be my army. I was hoping to have 25-30, but I am glad to have too many rather than too few, so I'm gonna try to grow as close to 60 as I can now. I made a 35 site aero-cloner, as I wasn't expecting so many clones. I'm gonna supplement that with a DWC-style airstone bubbling under a raft of clones. I'm stripping them bare, as I have no tent to continue vegging a mom.
 
Lots happened today. I chopped down #'s 4 and 6 to make clones. As I said before, I was trying to grow 6 plants for 5 clones apiece, or 30 clones optimally. When I lost 2 plants, I was wondering if my grow would lack numbers, but I have way more than I expected. I got 18 clones from #6 and 17 from #4. They filled up the 35 site aero-cloner that I thought was overkill. I bought a bigger bin, and will pop new holes tomorrow. i should get 50-60 sites on this one, and my pump is strong enough to handle the bigger setup. I started on #6 first, then realized that I needed a few more things, and the cloner was leaking, so I had to run out for supplies. during this time, the cut clones were stupidly left dry for a couple hours. They wilted quite a bit in the interim, and you can see the difference compared to the freshly cut clones from #4. I decided to wait until tomorrow to chop the top 2 based on laziness coupled with waiting for the space. As it is now, I'll be short about 30 neoprene discs for all the cuttings I'll get, which should be about 80. I want to try to root all of them, as I'm sure I'll lose some. I took pics before and after the chop. Getting better with each clipping. I decided not to use snips, as I've been told that they will crush the cells of the plant, and will need to be sliced afterwards, so I figured, why not cut out a step? I threw a dollar bill in there to give perspective on size and color.



#6 before clipping:
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#6 After clipping:
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#4 Before clipping:
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#4 After clipping:
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Here you can see some of the clones from #6 before they wilted. Also, I have them before and after clipping they leaves, which is to help them form roots slightly faster than leaving the leaves on. You can see the underside of the cloner lid here, and the 2mil plastic sheeting that I glued onto it to keep the water from leaking out. I tried 3 different kinds of glue, Crazy glue is too strong, and melts the plastic before it can attach. Hot glue, like from a glue gun, dries too hard, and the plastic peels right off of it. O finally got some plastic-specific epoxy, and It worked great. I also used a dremmel to shave out a hole that perfectly fits the cord- it just snugly fits in that notch in the corner.
Cloner:
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Here is a clone before clipping the side growth:
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Here is a clone that has been dipped in cloning gel:
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Congrats on the cuttings. Looks like you got plenty of clones from each plants. The SOG is about to happen! I noticed there are some leakage from the aero too, so I put the tote inside a bigger one to catch any leak it may have. Also to prevent some leaks adjust the angle of the pvc pipe inside. Mine spray straight up and splash down as it hits the under side of the lid. Had the spray heads in there for awhile they clogged up so I stop using them. Works great. Can't wait to see how you run the 2L SOG. Oh and the microscope is at 400x.
 
I had intended to post the photos last night, but I guess I got confused between updating the preview and submitting the post. Luckily I didn't lose all the post! I really like how my tent looks now, very much like a busy grow. I have thought twice about throwing the mother plants out. I figure they have a huge advantage over the smaller plants in the established root structure, so I'm gonna try to keep them growing along with the clones, and let them flower out. If I decide to toss them later, due to them being too big or anything, I wont have lost anything. I am waiting until tomorrow to chop the two biggest plants. I dont have enough discs to fill the new lid, even if I take all of the ones in use out of the small cloner. I cant leave holes open while spraying under, and I don't want to leave some holes undrilled, then have to drill holes thru the lid right next to clones in place, so I have to make a mad dash to the grow store tomorrow. I think I may just get a new pump as well, and just run two cloners.

Sidenote:
I scared the $#!+ out of myself today - I tried to unplug the cloer to check on the one leaky spot(where the cord comes out drips about an ounce an hour), and accidentally unplugged the grow lamp. I plugged it back it almost instantly- the plug wasn't even all the way out of the socket- and it started crackling, and there was this awesome lightning show in the center of the bulb while I was waiting about 30 seconds to see if it was just warming up, but it just kept dancing around and crackling/humming. I started freaking out, thinking I blew the bulb, unplugging and instinctively grabbing for it to try and unscrew/shake it, to test the bulb. Before I actually touched it, I thought of the oils on my hand coating the hot bulb, and decided to just let it sit, and try in a few minutes. Thank goodness it came back on, no problem after a 10 min sacrifice to the weed gods. I'm starting to get a bit more confident with this, so I'm getting calmer, and rather than making my decisions quicker, am letting things go longer to get a better feel before acting.


I'm looking to invest in a convenient camera between 50-$100 for no other purpose than herb documentation. 12, you out there? any recommendations? BTW, I read in you perp grow that one guy was crediting you with developing the 12/12 light cycle for growing! I didn't have the heart to correct him on that(not that I would be rude about it), but you gotta admit that's pretty funny! I mean people have been using 12/12 for decades already, right? Or am I the one making the silly mistake? Don't get me wrong, you're cranking out awesome work, but whoever instituted 12/12 would be like the godfather of all growing. There is no other variable that is less contested among cultivators, than using 12/12 to flower. It's like the first commandment. GLR schedules can vary, but they are David to the 12/12 Goliath. Anyways, advise if you have any recommendations, please and thank you.

I just noticed that you posted back, 12. The tote first leaked all around, but I took a cue from 420fied, and glued the plastic sheting under, and it all but eliminated the leaks. there is only one drip, which trickles down the pump cord, and is easily caught in a small shoebox tote. That's how I can measure it so effectively. I think it is just the way the plastic comes together at tht corner, but it's hard to tell what it looks like underneath while the lid is on, since I'm too big to be in there. Maybe if I pop out a few discs...
I have 35 from my smaller 2 plants, and the bigger 2 will have 2 1/2 days more growth, so I anticipate over 80 clones. If I get 60 sites on this new lid, I'll have more than enough room to let them all root out, then pick the strongest of them to continue with.
 
The incident you've described sounds crazy. Glad everything is ok now. Back in the days I had something similar with 400w bulb plugged into 600w ballast, didn't last long.

About the camera. I would recommend going with the Powershot A800 Digital Camera (Silver, Black, or Red) 10MP camera for $79 (free shipping) from bhphotovideo or the Powershot A3300 IS Digital Camera (Silver, Pink, Blue) which is 16MP camera also a good one for $109.99 with free shipping. Tell them Twelve12 sent you. Always wanted to say that. Actually, don't they will not know who you're talking about…I don't use point and shoot cameras but if I were the two mentioned above are the ones I would look into owning.

If you find something cheaper that offers high quality imagery go for it! Let us know what you end up getting.
 
Oh, about the 12/12 credited to me yeah that was misleading since obviously the 12/12 system came before me. I take responsible for bringing the 12-1 (GLR) to the community, by all means I did not invent anything, all systems and gear are borrowed. Even strains to make new ones. We're all sharing in this world to say we invented something would have to be the only one with the idea and first to take action. GLR is great as is 12-1, for the flowering I would love to try out the "Diminishing cycle" to see how the buds develop. Unfortunately, that cannot be done in a perpetual grow unless I block out the light by getting another tent. May go with the tent idea once I get the new room up and running.
 
Since what I posted earlier was yesterday's work, I have today's to follow. As of midnight, the wappa clonies were all wilted from too much time without water, and the widows were starting to droop,too:
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And I have my moms all in there with the babies. The two that are stripped are on the floor, and the two still to give are up top, closer to the light. I threw in a gratuitous pic of my self-made activated-carbon air filter:
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As of this evening the whole mess has sprung back up:
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I drilled the lid for the new cloner, and I'm just waiting for the rest of the parts, and I'd like to finish the next cloner and put it to work tomorrow, but it may take me one more day for assembly and testing before I trust it to house 50 precious plants.Here's my tape measure with the pre-marked intervals of 2 1/2":
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I didn't bother drawing lines like last time, I just eyeballed it. I used a spare disc to test the edge spaces to be sure there was room for everything:
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Then it's a snap to drill all the holes with a 1 7/8"hole saw. 15minutes of drilling for 50 holes. another 15 minutes picking the shavings off, and you have a finished product:
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You can kinda tell that the holes are not all lined up, but there's lots of space left to screw up. The last pic shows the drilled lid on top of the untouched lid. I always try to get an extra lid, so I can use the bin for storage when not cloning.
 
Hiya SauronBlue,


Great looking hempys from seed you have there.


I have a couple tips for you.

Next time you take clones from your moms give the cuts a dark period right after you put them in the cloner. I have my cloner in the veg room with the moms and what I do is take the cuts and put them in the cloner right before lights out. So they get an entire night to get over the stress from the cutting.

What this does is it prevents your clones from wilting. When you put them in the cloner under lights then tend to wilt right away. But if you have the lights off they recoup from the stress of the cutting over the dark period and then when the light comes on later they do not wilt.


Also its a good idea to top your plants that you intent to make into mothers because they will develop the branches more for taking clones. It helps to keep them shorter and bushy so that they produce alot of babies.


I love to see new hempys SOGs growers and ill follow along. :thumb:
 
Hiya SauronBlue,


Great looking hempys from seed you have there.


I have a couple tips for you.

Next time you take clones from your moms give the cuts a dark period right after you put them in the cloner. I have my cloner in the veg room with the moms and what I do is take the cuts and put them in the cloner right before lights out. So they get an entire night to get over the stress from the cutting.

What this does is it prevents your clones from wilting. When you put them in the cloner under lights then tend to wilt right away. But if you have the lights off they recoup from the stress of the cutting over the dark period and then when the light comes on later they do not wilt.


Also its a good idea to top your plants that you intent to make into mothers because they will develop the branches more for taking clones. It helps to keep them shorter and bushy so that they produce alot of babies.


I love to see new hempys SOGs growers and ill follow along. :thumb:

WOW!!

I am star-struck that the founder of the hempy method would deign to grace my thread with his presence. Not only that, but a compliment too? That means a LOT! That's like Donald Trump telling you that your business plan is sound.
I cherish any advice you have to give, and will implement your suggestion tomorrow, when I chop the other 2 plants.
If you're still out there; I'm using Olivia's cloning solution in my RO water that's spraying on the clones, but it seems to be mostly settling on the bottom of the tub. Do you think I'm wasting $$ adding anything to the water? I don't understand why we root with plain water if the nutes are helpful to the plants. Maybe a diluted amount, but none?
Thanks so much for adding to my thread!!
 
Jrosek was the guy who taught me how to Hempy SOG, I try to carry on his tradition and I am glad that others caught on to its advantages.

These are my thoughts on cloner additives:

I dont use them because I find them to be unnecessary to rooting and a possible foodsource for pathogens in your cloner. I like to keep the cloner sterile and the water clean because the main goal is to avoid getting any slime on the stems / roots.

I keep my cuts in the bubble cloner for 3 weeks so that when I take them out the roots are well developed for transplant. For the first week or so when the clones have no roots they dont have any ability to uptake nutes out of the cloner water. So the clone lives on the stored up reserves it has in the leaf itself. When the roots start to show up the clone would be able to uptake some food that could be in the water but then that clone would start to grow when some of the other clones dont have roots yet.

So you start to create a disparity in the sizes of your clones.

When there is no food in the water the clones continue to use the stored up nutes just like all the rest of the cuts that could or could not be rooting yet. So the grow stays at the same rate as the rest of the clones. This allows everything to root by the end of the three weeks and all stay roughly the same size.

As for rooting gels and powders or solutions, I just see them as a Vector for pathogens. The ingredients in them could be food for things like Pythium to take a hold and start spreading to the stems / roots.

I use well water so Pythium and Algae are present and if they get enough food to start growing and enough warmth then they will start to colonize on the stems.

Its important to keep the temps in the low 70's because it keeps those bad fungus from growing and the clones do ok at that temp. I found below 70 the its still safe from the fungus but the clones tend to root a little slower.


When cloning I just try to be patient to allow the clones to do what they will do when no fungus stops them. As iam not in a hurry to produce clones as fast as possible. I dont see it as a race to get the clone from the mother to rooted as fast as possible. Mainly because some clones will root faster then another cut will. My goal is to have all the clones at the same rooted stage all together at the same time. That way when I transplant everything is quite similar and you get an even canopy.

So I have 3 full weeks for cloning worked into my cycle each rotation.



Clones will root with no nutes or additives in plain water as long as you keep the fungus from preventing that.

One of the most important factors to keep away the fungus beyond all that other stuff is Light. The water and the roots need to be in darkness the whole time they are rooting. I find that I get better results using a dark plastic container for the cloner. Currently I am using dark grey rubbermaid brute storage totes. The plastic is thicker then some totes and it helps to keep the light from leaking into the water / rooting area.



Another little thing, you wont need to cut the leaves of your clones anymore when you put them in the cloner. That is a trick used by growers to slow down the transpiration of the clone to avoid wilting. But since you will be giving them a dark period after the cut they wont wilt and they wont transpire too much water so the leafs wont need to be cut.

I found its just an unnecessary step.

The un cut leaf will even block some of the light from penetrating down into the res by shading the light so that it a minor bonus.


So keep the light out of the cloner rez, keep temps in check and avoid adding anything that might be food for a fungus to take ahold.

When you do it this way the clone might end up looking a little hungry but they will all be the same size and same health with a good rooting success rate.


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This looks like the place where all the Hempy SOG growers have come together.

So maybe next cycle I will do my 25 one gallon 1+ GPW attempt here.

My cloner / veg area and my drip irrigation array is setup for running 25 plants so I will have to upsize my pots to keep up with the numbers you get when you stack ;p
 
This looks like the place where all the Hempy SOG growers have come together.

So maybe next cycle I will do my 25 one gallon 1+ GPW attempt here.

My cloner / veg area and my drip irrigation array is setup for running 25 plants so I will have to upsize my pots to keep up with the numbers you get when you stack ;p

Awesome. I enjoy the heck out of your journals and I know a bunch of others here would as well.

You created a monster.

:Namaste:
 
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