WW/Wappa 2L Hempy GLR 1st Grow!

[SauronBlue]

TWELVE12: Sorry to take so long getting back to you. I appreciate the advice on the cameras. I'll probably buy the 3300 in January, unless something with similar features goes on a crazy sale over the holidays.

420fied: Along with T12, you are one of my biggest inspirations to start cultivating, so I love to see you stopping by! I agree that we would LOVE to see a journal from Xare on 420mag! I can't even describe how honored I am that 3 of only 25 posts he's made on this site EVER were to me!

Xare: It's funny to see "new member" by your name, like you're a noob! I know your home is on another site, and I really appreciate you crossing the street to check out the "grass" on the other side, but yours is still greener lol!
Thanks for explaining the reasons behind the changes you've suggested. Now I can not just follow like an automaton, but make informed decisions. I have noticed that some clones seem to be getting bigger, yet no roots are starting anywhere yet. My temps in the tent are between 65-75f with the a/c unit blowing into the space during lights on(and until about 10 min after they shut off). I started to put the remote temp probe into the water to get an accurate reading, but then I thought of how it also measures humidity, so I stopped thinking that water must be able to affect the thing if it measures moisture - didn't want to ruin it. When I peek in there(once a day for maybe 30 seconds), I have noticed a smell just like when I was germinating my seeds, and obviously I can feel the moisture escaping into the air, but no heat buildup is noticeable. I had cut the leaves in an attempt to hasten rooting, but some of the plants are already regrowing the cut parts, and long, straight points(not jagged) are shooting out to complete the leaves. Others have impressed the importance of not shading other plants, also, so that was another(minor) reason to clip my leaves, but 1) If they are using the leaves to feed from, that is a very good reason to leave them whole. Also, I doubt the importance of this, as in a SOG the plants are so tight together that it's impossible to prevent shading during the grow, so why during cloning? I was also a bit uncertain as to how long to cut the bigger clones(should I make them all equal, or use as much of the stem as possible?), and how much to have sticking out under the lid. I mention this because your clones seem to be almost flat against the lid.

All: I have been more conscious of my presence on the site since reading 12's guide to becoming member of the month. These guidelines are not just for those of us looking to win a competition, but to us all as a community. Before I started my grow, I was very good about "liking" and "repping", but have lately been speed-reading others' threads, and not focusing on giving recognition for their contributions. I AM busy, but I want to try to slow down, and be more active in the community. Without the help I've gotten here, I have no doubt that I would not have been able to produce the results that I have. Thank you all!!

 

[geno]

I'm not telling you to go backwards in tech, but I've used a box with sand about 2 or 3 inches deep( I wash it first now ). Use peet pellet pods (cheap ). along with rooting hormone stick the cutting in the pod and twist it 1/4 inch or so into the sand and keep the sand wet. use a floresent gro lux bulb on top of the babies and cover with plastic to keep humidity in. I dont do anything else. spray a couple times a day and keep the sand damp/wet. Again I'm not saying to do it this way, and I'm sure some one has a reson why this old fashion way isnt used anymore ( Its from 70's ). I have great success this way. I hope this concept can help. rock wool or another medium can be used, it doesnt have to be peet pellets. Best of luck to you.
I really hope this isnt contrary to what your trying to acomplish.

 

[SauronBlue]

Thanks for the input geno. I just may need to try something different if I can't get this aero figured out. I keep having leaks, and it's a huge irritation. Yesterday I had 2 1gal+ leaks; one was waiting for me when I got home, then after cleaning, attempting to fix, and going to sleep, I awoke at 4am to another mess to clean. My babies. I finally did away with all the damn glues and epoxy's, and just duct taped the plastic to the lid. That plastic epoxy I tried was too weak, and was getting thin and gummy from the wetness. I've now gone over 12 hours with less than 2 cups of drip accumulated in a dish. I'm also going to stop messing with it so much to

• Stop messing with the seal of the lid
• Avoid algae growth from light leaks
• Avoid root damage from light leaks
• Maintain humidity

So, the pics I'm posting are of this morning when I woke up to water the toilet, and ended up wringing out wet rags into a bucket for 45 minutes.
Here's the underside getting taped down. It looks really bright, but that's because I killed the big overhead lights, and worked from a cfl hood with a soft white bulb, to protect the roots from as much light as possible:

I'm being told that the bulging whiteness on these roots is a good thing? I guess this means roots are about to explode. I'm hoping that's the right answer, because when I first saw it, I thought it was fungus. There were 5 like this at last count:

A few of the babies are showing browning leaves:

Here are examples of the straight leaves before they frill up:

This was the attempt at leak control from my arrival at home. Taped the lid down tight in various places, and when I woke up, there was actually water coming up through at least one disc, right along the stem. These discs things are snug on the plants and holes pretty tight, I stilll think that's kinda weird that water was coming up against friction and gravity. With those spray heads, the force doesn't even go up, but out - unless one blew out. Always an excuse to peek, but I'm practicing self-control. I changed out the offending disc, glad I always buy extra. BTW, I got a few different colored discs this time to make it easier to tell what's what:

Here are the Four moms(two sheared) in the back, raised closer to the light, and the clones in the front. The drip tray is visible with about 20oz of runoff from the last 17 hours. I put extra water this refill, since I'm not adding any nutes - so I can afford to lose this much water until sunday, when I'm planning the next chop. I want to leave them alone to do their thing:

Any clones that can't fit into my cloners will go to testing the "TC", or Time Capsule technique. I'll put clones into still water to see how long they last without rooting or dying, as a storage method. I'm sure most reading this at posting have sen the same thing on T12's journal. I'll mix clipped-leaved clones and full-leaved clones in the same jar, and change the water at a different interval in each jar. I'm looking for the longest time the plants stay healthy without rooting.

 

[Twelve12]

The clones looks great. Yep, they should have roots in 1-2 days the bulge is a good indicator they'll root very soon. I've manage to stop leakage by removing the spray heads and let the jet shoots up under the lid. You can point them shooting at the walls of the container that way no water is leaking from the lid. Also, for prevention I place the areo inside a bigger container. Any leak can be pump out using the hand pump that you get at fish store to change out the tank.

I'm about to built another aero, not sure how many sites I want this time should be fun. Good luck with TC looking forward to your experiments.

 

[SauronBlue]

I am going to clip my plants and start the 2nd half of the cloning today. I had complications due to not having all the materials, then the 1st store I went to didn't have the right stuff, then I had to drive an hour to the big place to get the right stuff. Then I lost my debit card. I finally have what I need, now I lost my camera cable. I'll be getting another cable today, after I go to the bank and get some cash. I have pics from a couple days ago that I could never update. I'm starting to think twice about plant #2, that I was so happy about her progress. I think the shoots on her are gonna be too small to make viable clones. I'll follow up with updates later, but could this be caused by not adding cal/mag to the coco plants? I heard from one person that they need it, but I'd never heard of that before, only for the perlite mix, as that has no trace minerals. I'm now thinking that I'll only get 5-10(maybe) from that plant, while the rest are giving up over 15.

 

[SauronBlue]

Ok, I've been a horrible journaler, but I do have some half-assed excuses, but I'll save them for the next time.
I got the camera that 12 recommended, and I'm trying it out, but not sure if this is what I want for my close-ups, still learning how to use this thing. I have had quite a full few days. Aside from personal obligations and complications, I have had great trouble in getting the second cloner ready. I have chopped the girls, and I got 23 clones from #1, but only 8 from #2. That's even counting tops. All the clones on her were too small to cut - most an inch and a half or less. I managed to pretty much fill out the cloner with new growth from 4 and 6. It's easier to see with the new color coded caps(registered trademark). I have #2(yellow) in the center to try and ensure something grows from this plant. #1 is in green and on either side of 2, mainly in the center of the room. The new growth from #s 4 and 6, as well as their tops are in the blue caps closest to the wall. Unfortunately, since #2 performed so poorly, I did't have extras to play with, but I'll leave the four growing through the 2-3 weeks of cloning time, and I'm sure I'll have new growth, but I have no tent to veg them in, or lights, as this setup will house my HPS for bloom. Any suggestions on what to do with these big girls when I'm overloaded and need space? Too cold to plant outside, but I feel a bit harsh just chucking them.
So, I added the last of my cloning solution to the water, but it was only about 1/6 the amount requested for the water - Just wanted to use it up. I refuse to keep referring to these things in descriptions, so from now on, the 35 site cloner is gonna be called Ren, and the 50 site will be Stimpy, OK? So, I've been able to maintain Ren with a small drip in one spot right up until putting Stimpy to work. I had Stimpy going for about a day and a half with no issues, then she started leaking pretty steadily, and I couldn't stop it no matter what I did. I spent hours turning it on and off, putting pressure here, removing caps there - It was driving me out of my mind. It started dripping from the edge onto the wall of the tent, then down to the real floor of the tent, which has zippers - bypassing the water-proof liner - and wetting the floor of the room. I had to take everything out and sop up the water from multiple layers of grow floor. I installed a wireless thermometer to give me readings outside the tent, and placed the hygrometer inside. The grow store guy told me that the humidity sensor is on the back of the unit, that's why the cord is a certain length. I had no idea that the readings until now have been wrong. I eventually duct-taped the whole lid down, but left a slight space just where I wanted at one corner to let it out into the same bin that Ren spills into. This worked finally(thank all I love, as I was losing my mind), and not only am I succeeding at getting it all in one spot, but the amount has cut to about 1/6 of before. On top of that, I haven't noticed any drips from Ren since the operation this morning (did I mention That I caught the leak onto the floor when I woke up to piss this morning, went to check on my babies, and got a soaked sock. I spent 2 1/2 hours before work fixing it, and was late to work), so at least all that work wasn't in vain. I don't know what I would've done if this didn't work, because I can't just leave a 7gal res to leak out all day unchecked, and I have no bigger tub to put it in - besides, who wants to lift the whole cloner out to empty the spill res? I haven't lifted the lid on Ren since getting him under control, and am loathe to do so. I'm not sure when I'll check; maybe Sunday, maybe Tuesday. I only want to open them to change res'. Maybe I'll just pop out one cap, and test Ph - change when it gets out of whack. I actually haven't checked my ph yet! Major oversight. Well, let's get to the pics:

Before chopping the second pair:

Whole setup after chop:

Overhead of Ren:

Overhead of Stimpy:

Panoramic of Stimpy:

Original drip from Stimpy was bearable:

New drip was way worse:

A first attempt at fixing the leak failed because there were places I couldn't reach, so I had to take everything out to be sure I wasn't leaving a situation that would cause me to come home to a hole in the floor:

So I emptied the tent, dried it all out, and taped the lid down:

A clone top:

Some pre-flower hairs from the site of a clone I clipped:

And some hairs growing from clones still on plant(I can't get it to focus any closer):

I let this top get too close to the light. I trimmed most of the damage:

Damaged Leaves on Ren:

I hate this little fan. I can never clip it to anything at a usable angle:

Happy growing, my friends!

 

[Twelve12]

Any suggestions on what to do with these big girls when I'm overloaded and need space?

I usually clip them down to a few nodes left to resize them down while keeping all the cuttings in Time Capsule. Use them for the next cycle. Depends how often you need clones. Having full stock on clones gives you the option of selecting the biggest and most healthiest cutting to root.

The setup is clean your mother plants are healthy. Are these shots from the new camera? Looks good.

 

[SauronBlue]

I think you misunderstood me, 12. I mean what to do with the grown plants. I have no 2nd room to continue vegging, so I'd have no MH to grow them under, and I wont have room for the cloner even if I put them under the HPS. Maybe I'll put them in place of 4 new clones in the new army? Will they overshadow the rest too bad with such a huge head start if I put them up against one wall, or maybe in each corner?

I changed the water in Ren today. I Ph'd it at 6.5-7, so it was time. I took one cap out to Ph the water, and saw a 1 1/2" root coming off of that clone, and MAN did I get Psyched! When I pulled the lid off, there was an awesome seal between the plastic sheeting, and the side of the bin. I guess the humidity rose to a point that the moisture created it's own seal. You can even see how stuck to the wall the plastic is in the first pic I had to be careful not to pull too hard, or I could've ripped something trying to fight that seal. The root growth was incredible, however, less consistent than I'd hope for, but I'm just glad that I'm not slaughtering anything after my germination/infanticide episode. I didn't notice any stems that did't have either roots, or the white bulging that signals the pop. So, I added ten 2liters of water, or about 6gal of straight reverse osmosis water to the machine, and a 1/3 dose of H2O2 to give a mild clean of the algae/slippery floor of the res. The dose was 3ml per gal, so I added 3ml to each of the first 2l's of water , and shook before dumping into the res. I'm hoping this wont mess up a good thing. I've decided to wait until next Sunday to do anything with Stimpy, as he is still fresh, not to mention all the trouble I just went to to get him under control. Besides, he's light-sealed, with good temp and Ph, I can't imagine it being worth it to untape, clean and retape already, so screw it. Next Sunday I deal with both - Hey, that's Christmas Day! I hope Santa brings me some healthy, rooted clones!!

The unveiling:

I still can't seem to get a good pic of this, but this stem that looks like it's reflecting the camera flash is really just all bumpy and white with roots just under the surface. The camera flash is not even on in these pics:

Here's a shot of Ren's guts after the refill:

Here is my wireless thermometer in action, hanging form the reflector at canopy height:

And here is the receiver for the w/t, along with the box from the camera Twelve12 recommended, which I have used for this post, and the one before:

 

[GodSpeed]

Congradulations on your roots bro, looking amazing subb'd a bit late but better late then naver.

 

[SauronBlue]

Thanks GS!

I feel great that I've made my own cloner, and saved some $$ in the deal, but I can understand why some people are willing to shell out big bucks to save on the aggravation of all these damn leaks!! It's still a huge ripoff how they charge 6x the retail price of the parts, but at least I can empathize with those that gave up and gave in.
Ren started a new leak on the opposite side, over by the tent wall. Trying to work it out.

BTW, I did what Xare said, and timed my cutting operation to end after lights out, and the wilting was eliminated. Mind you, I also didn't forget to turn the water on, and leave them Dry for 2hrs. I also left more leaf on this time, to let them feed more.

 

[Twelve12]

That's a nice camera. The picture looks high quality. Have you try the micro feature? Just to see how well it works. Look like your grow is almost on its way to 2L. Yeah I hate leaks too but there's a way to eliminate it by placing in the rubber piece between the gap of the top and the tote it should block out running water. Similar to the professional made aero.

 

[SauronBlue]

Ok. Long time without a post. I have seen a huge difference between the plain water and the Olivia's mix. These clones went into Stimpy over a week after Ren was started, yet I was able to take 3 times the number of rooted clones from Stimpy than have matured in Ren. Not only did Ren have over a 10 day head-start, there was so much leakage that the sprayers were just barely bubbling over, much like a school water-fountain. This obviously was not giving the clones optimal watering, so I can only imagine the results without that problem. I know it was at least 3 days that the water level was this low, because I could tell the difference in the sounds - but i never opened the lid,because the plants never browned or wilted. I now have 32 hempy's potted and dropped in the tent, and I hope to have the tent filled, and get blooming within a week. To achieve that end, I have moved all the remaining clones to Stimpy, and retired Ren to make room for the hempy's, and Stimpy is still running residual Olivia's along with the water added to replace spillage. I Ph'ed the water, but I didn't replace it because I can't get to anywhere to get more Olivia's yet. I also started a bubble cloner to house a huge clone that I'm toying with trying to root, and a few others to fill out the tray.

Here's the roots from a trashed mother; first straight out of the bottle, then after cleaning out most of the media from the roots:

Here is the whole process of filling perlite mix pots in one shot; I use a spaghetti strainer to wash my perlite after trying many different methods, then put the rinsed-clean pebbles into a bin where I mix it with vermiculite at about a 80/20 P/V ratio, then scoop it into the hempy:

Compare Ren's lid:

To Stimpy's lid:

I also mixed a sauce of highly concentrated Root66(about 10-15ml in about 8oz of water) and dipped each of the clones before burying the roots. All were watered within 30 minutes to keep them from drying out, then topped off a few hours later to ensure good hydration:

 

[Twelve12]

Great differences in the root structure and development in both aero. The Stimpy is kicking ass. Get the Ren working! Things are looking good, got a shot of the transplanted clones in the 2L?

 

[SauronBlue]

Great differences in the root structure and development in both aero. The Stimpy is kicking ass. Get the Ren working! Things are looking good, got a shot of the transplanted clones in the 2L?

Thanks for pointing that out, uploaded the pics, but forgot to post them
Here's the 32 that are potted so far. Half are soil-less coco-coir blend with hydroton at the bottom, and the other half a perlite/vermiculite mix:

Here you can see the whole tent with Stimpy, the new recruits, and in the front left corner under the fan, I have a small bubble-cloner set up to try and root the top 12 inches of a mother whose body was tossed out:

Here's a closer look at the beast that I'm trying to get to grow roots in my bubble cloner:

As far as the difference between Ren and Stimpy, Ren was filled with plain water, and Stimpy had only a half dose of a rooting hormone that I found that is not a sponsor of the site. It is used by regular growers, not marketed to cannabis culture, so it is much cheaper than the "urban hydroponics" equivalent. If Stimpy had been filled with a full dose of the chem, I would assume it would've been even more dramatic. On top of that, due to the leakage, Stimpy was running so low that the water wasn't spraying out, but just flowing, like a drinking fountain. As long as it was splashing on the sides, it kept leaking, so when it got too low to spray, it stopped leaking, but many plants were then only getting the humidity, not actual spray. Only the 1-2 plants that were right next to a sprayer head even had a chance of getting hit directly. I can only imagine if I had kept it spraying at full power. I'm getting to the store for more chems asap, but the holiday hours combined with my hellish work schedule are wreaking havoc with my plans. That's why I Ph'ed the water in her, rather than toss it, and added more water to fill it up.

 

[Twelve12]

Looks great, black army, lol very clean look. I don't bother with painting the bottles any more maybe I got a thing for roots. Suggestion, have some tray under the bottles to catch the run off, it can get very messy without it. Everything else is pro, keep up the good work!

 

[GodSpeed]

Jeez now that is root development!

Nice work on the transplanted clones, getting exciting going to see some explosive growth here

 

[SauronBlue]

Jeez now that is root development!

Nice work on the transplanted clones, getting exciting going to see some explosive growth here

Thanks GS! Since adding more water to fill Stimpy, the development looks more like Ren. I'm looking to test whether it was the rooting additive or the reduction in water that's responsible for the difference...

Looks great, black army, lol very clean look. I don't bother with painting the bottles any more maybe I got a thing for roots. Suggestion, have some tray under the bottles to catch the run off, it can get very messy without it. Everything else is pro, keep up the good work!

Thanks 12! I'm trying to keep it fresh in there with all the damn leakage. I've looked into getting trays, but all the sterilite-type trays(even the short, wide ones) have weird grooves and bumps that make the hempys lean in weird directions. All the trays that I saw on grow sites were really expensive, and in sizes that are either not a good fit for my space, or the whole 3'x3'. I don't see the point of putting a 3x3 in there for $150, when my tent has a 4" deep removable water-proof liner built in(especially since I'd lose the extra 3" of my 39"x39"). If I could find a tray that was 18"x18" internal space, about 4-6" deep, and about .5" around for lip or handles, that would be great for my space, to split it up into 4 quarters. If those trays had mesh bottoms, I could then lift them out in easy to manage groups, in order to inspect, trim, etc. and also to clean out the tent.

I also upgraded my bubble-cloner. I used duct-tape and twist-ties to make a frame to hold the neoprene raft down, and added a few more clones. On the green side are 3 clones with small slits all around the bottom 1/2" of the stem, the blue side are all un-ridged. All of them are from the tops of mos that are about to go into the trash, so I'm just trying to learn whatever I can from them while I can. I'm interested to see how any of them do with the bubbles. I've raised Log(formerly known as "the bubble cloner") on a platform to make it easier to check the progress.

So, here's Log, as he was originally - on the floor with just Beast and 2 tiny outcasts from Ren that didn't fit in Stimpy after the switch:

Not sure if it's gonna screw me up, but I've been using my air pump as a mobile leak-leech - I can put it on top of puddles, and it will pump the water into Log:

I had to figure a way to keep Beast standing straight in a raft with very little support, so I used this stick to span the width of Log, and used twist-ties to keep enough of her weight off of the raft, that it didn't upset the balance:

I also had to figure a way to hold the raft down, because it floats loosely on top of the water, but I wanted it to be firm against the surface, to support the weight of the plants well. This had to be something that didn't pierce the tray, as it was also a way to avoid leaks, not create more. I figured on duct-taping twist-ties across the width at my desired height. You can see in these pics the duct-tape that I was using to keep the raft from floating away, and the way I had beast braced with the stick vertical:

A couple shots of Log running at the higher water level, which was easier to get pics, but also impossible to move without making a huge mess, also It can't be used as a cleaning tool for spilled water if it is already full:

The new level is more manageable, and the setup is still geared towards Beast at the center, with the clone tests on the edge, and the same dinky clones hanging out under Beast's canopy:

You can already see the new army's recruits growing, aided by the established roots:

All in all very happy with my success so far! I hope to be able to get some more of my rooting hormone tomorrow, but who knows with the holidays shutting down all of the smaller, slower stores, including grow shops. Either way, next Sunday will be the last day of veg. By next Monday, at the latest, I will have my HPS installed, and all 64 plants in pots:

In other news, I got some incredible bud recently. Here I have about 1/4 ounce each of Purple Urkel(left) and Super Lemon Haze. Although they are on top of a Grant for size perspective, that's actually about $225 worth in my area. I must say, the SLH was so impressive from a smoke POV, that I am planning on adding it to my strains why I get more seeds. PU is good smoke, too, it has a very smooth flavor and a creeper high, but SLH is something else. It smells like Earl Grey tea, and instantly feels like it's causing your chest to tighten up. As you get over the initial shock(it's not harsh, just strong), an intense high takes hold, and can even cause you to feel tingly all over your body. I passed some on to a buddy who is a daily smoker for over 20 years, and he called me to tell me he was stuck on his couch, and couldn't get up! I've never experienced a "body high" like this where I wasn't just thinking differently, but my body was interpreting sensations differently. Strongly recommended:

Happy New Year!!​

 

[Twelve12]

Finding the right size tote is challenging, check many different places they will have it. Yeah I have to agree getting the hydro trays are a bit expensive just to hold some run off. I use the normal seed startling trays they are like 2usd ea can fit 8 of the 2L bottles. If you can get the 2L bottle holders it would be perfect.

Interesting how you chop the mother plant and have her rooting like that, lol. When taking cuttings I start from the top, then work it down and turn the busy plant into bonsai and let her veg out again, this way to eliminate rooting the mother again. Since she already had a great root system even with bonsai figure she'll bush out very fast in 2 weeks.

You will not be disappointed with the SLH, it's everyone's favorite, very dank and hit hard and fast.

 

[SauronBlue]

Interesting how you chop the mother plant and have her rooting like that, lol. When taking cuttings I start from the top, then work it down and turn the busy plant into bonsai and let her veg out again, this way to eliminate rooting the mother again. Since she already had a great root system even with bonsai figure she'll bush out very fast in 2 weeks.

You will not be disappointed with the SLH, it's everyone's favorite, very dank and hit hard and fast.

I know you're busy checking lots of threads, and I'm not that active, but you always seem to forget that I don't have your typical setup going on here. I have to toss the moms because I have no lights to keep them in veg, and they will take up too much space in the flowering tent(my 1 and only possible plant area). My moms got to be about 3-feet in height after 2 months. I'm only using waste to do experiments as long as I can, to boost my knowledge (and have fun). I've had the other 3 moms out of the tent without water for 4 days. I'm trying to push the limits of the resilience of the plants, in case I should need to know for any reason in the future. Today I will start watering each plant at different intervals - one no water at all. Remember, these plants are out of the tent, so they are getting no light other than the house-hold bulbs.

Since SLH is mostly sativa, I'm thinking of setting up to have an SLH/PE summer grow, before going back to indica in the fall. From what I see journaled, the summer heat seems to wreak havoc with the less tropical plants. SLH smoke has earned a place in my heart(and lungs)

 

[Twelve12]

That's what happen when I try to speed read. Missed the part where you're experimenting with the mother plant! College reading habits. How many days did those plants you left under the house-hold bulbs without water last?