Zinc lockout high pH

[Eron]

I have what i believe is a zinc deficiency. I am using general hydroponics flora series gro, bloom, and micro in a recirculating drip system in hydroton. All environmental conditions are somewhat optimal, and pH ranges from 6 to 6.4 but runs up over night to maybe 6.8 at most - (as i believe the hydroton isnt fully washed and prepped).

Originally i thought the deficiency may be caused by using reverse osmosis (RO) since it strips all nutrients from the base water for use in the reservoir. But now through some research i figured zinc is locked out at 6 and above, meaning its never had the chance to absorb it in the first place, and its in fact at decent levels in the solution, regardless of using ro.
Am i correct in thinking my problem is pH and not that using ro water as the base for my nutrient solution? Ive seen it mentioned that there is a hard water specific line of nutrients, leading me to believe the type i am using makes up for the chance iron, magnesium, calcium, zinc and probably other micronutriente are stripped, but accounted for.
Seems it should be the easiest way to deal with hydro nutrients, to start with ro, and account for literally everything.

Thanks

 

[Barney86]

If the ph is running that fast your nutes are probably too strong mate. What e/c are you feeding her? Should only be around 0.6 at most.

 

[Eron]

If the ph is running that fast your nutes are probably too strong mate. What e/c are you feeding her? Should only be around 0.6 at most.

Was at around 250 to 300ppm (so .5 to .6 ec) for 3 days leading up, but it also dropped reservoir level quite a bit the night before, increasing it to i think 500 or 700ish (1 to 1.4) then did a reservoir change, brought it down to 100 (.2) , and added nutrients with calimag up to 550 (1.1) with a bit better schedule than i thought it was previous. I didnt have any calimag before, all added in correct order.

I figured it was iron magnesium, or zinc for a while, but narrowed it down once most of the signs lined up, curling new growth, banded green and yellow, older leaves seemed fine, twisted and super compact growth if there was any.

Seeing as how we use ro, the fact i believed i had very little iron (at first) led me to begin questioning this line of deficiencies. Slowly working it out to zinc though, leaving it at 6.0 to 6.2 pH before i left, only hours later finding out its only available in hydro solutions at 5.5 to 6 :/

Most of the cuttings are larger and decent root structure, so i figured they were ready for more nutrients, which my original thought was to slowly raise it 50ppm every other day or daily to reach weekly nutrient given schedules

 

[Emilya Green]

why are you running your hydro in the soil pH range? Of course you are having lockouts. Adjust your pH from now on down to 5.8, and stay in the 5.5-6.1 range so you can pick up all of your nutrients.

 

[Barney86]

Was at around 250 to 300ppm (so .5 to .6 ec) for 3 days leading up, but it also dropped reservoir level quite a bit the night before, increasing it to i think 500 or 700ish (1 to 1.4) then did a reservoir change, brought it down to 100 (.2) , and added nutrients with calimag up to 550 (1.1) with a bit better schedule than i thought it was previous. I didnt have any calimag before, all added in correct order.

I figured it was iron magnesium, or zinc for a while, but narrowed it down once most of the signs lined up, curling new growth, banded green and yellow, older leaves seemed fine, twisted and super compact growth if there was any.

Seeing as how we use ro, the fact i believed i had very little iron (at first) led me to begin questioning this line of deficiencies. Slowly working it out to zinc though, leaving it at 6.0 to 6.2 pH before i left, only hours later finding out its only available in hydro solutions at 5.5 to 6 :/

Most of the cuttings are larger and decent root structure, so i figured they were ready for more nutrients, which my original thought was to slowly raise it 50ppm every other day or daily to reach weekly nutrient given schedules

Hmm that's the right strength anyway. How's the res temperatures? That can effect evaporation which will in turn rise the ppm and there for the ph.
Also, what exactly are you feeding her?
50ppm calmag, 250ppm veg nutes is all they should need just now. Bit of scillica and root boost is nice too but not essential.

 

[Eron]

why are you running your hydro in the soil pH range? Of course you are having lockouts. Adjust your pH from now on down to 5.8, and stay in the 5.5-6.1 range so you can pick up all of your nutrients.

Haha i am trying, its not the most efficient setup

Hmm that's the right strength anyway. How's the res temperatures? That can effect evaporation which will in turn rise the ppm and there for the ph.
Also, what exactly are you feeding her?
50ppm calmag, 250ppm veg nutes is all they should need just now. Bit of scillica and root boost is nice too but not essential.

Right now im doing floragro, florabloom, and floramicro at roughly 150ppm each (450ppm total) and calimag at probably 100 bringing the total to 550, just added a bunch of ro water to make 500 or 450ppm. And sitting at 5.8 ph. Gonna try to get through the stress at those levels for the next few days.

 

[Barney86]

Ah it's the gh trio again. I can't get my head round those to be honest mate.
They call it grow and bloom but insist you need both for veg and both for bloom so theyre obviously not veg or bloom nutes lol. Both cycles need different nutes so I really can't understand why you'd feed the same thing for both cycles.
Ie, too much PK in veg will burn them and too much N in bloom will stunt the growth and give you shitty weed. So why would you give equal parts all the way through?
There something called the Lucas formula for those nutes that works well too. Some smart arse realised that you don't even need one of the bottles. Grow or bloom I can't remember but it works really well. See loads of people do it.

 

[Eron]

Ah it's the gh trio again. I can't get my head round those to be honest mate.
They call it grow and bloom but insist you need both for veg and both for bloom so theyre obviously not veg or bloom nutes lol. Both cycles need different nutes so I really can't understand why you'd feed the same thing for both cycles.
Ie, too much PK in veg will burn them and too much N in bloom will stunt the growth and give you shitty weed. So why would you give equal parts all the way through?
There something called the Lucas formula for those nutes that works well too. Some smart arse realised that you don't even need one of the bottles. Grow or bloom I can't remember but it works really well. See loads of people do it.

Awesome, sounds simple enough and more along the lines of what makes sense haha, im flushing it all now and gonna use it at half strength for a week and see how they react. Thank you so much. Ill post some good pics one day if this helps!

 

[Emilya Green]

Awesome, sounds simple enough and more along the lines of what makes sense haha, im flushing it all now and gonna use it at half strength for a week and see how they react. Thank you so much. Ill post some good pics one day if this helps!

be sure to adjust that pH... that is the main problem

 

[Marzbadrock]

I'm with Em on this one. Ph!

 

[Eron]

be sure to adjust that pH... that is the main problem

I'm with Em on this one. Ph!

Will do! Im gonna run an hour of ro and drain then add nutes and ph and hold i suppose, idk what else to do.

I thought it could be overwatering because i doubt were running enough aerators, and doing 24/7 drip, but i cant deal with that quite yet haha. Too much too quick

 

[Barney86]

Gon post a full pic so we can see what that is you've got her in mate. I've got a few suspicions of a few things....
since you said 24/7 drip feed i just went back to double check and seen what looks like about 20 litres a minute spraying on her from the right hand side???

 

[Eron]

Gon post a full pic so we can see what that is you've got her in mate. I've got a few suspicions of a few things....
since you said 24/7 drip feed i just went back to double check and seen what looks like about 20 litres a minute spraying on her from the right hand side???

Probably about a gallon every 5 minutes, but yes i definitely think watering/not enough dissolved oxygen in the system is a problem. Is there a difference between those?

Looking at images or symptoms of that as well online i think they looked similar to what we are seeing, but the tips are burnt which made me think it may not be that at first. Definitely looking into timed applications though, and adding a ton of aerators. But ive been so busy dealing with just this haha. Trying to move too quick builds tons of problems and im the one that deals with it haha