Yet another Is this hermie? thread

[Drewbz]

I've noticed this is a pretty common first post but it's my first grow and I'd decided to go with a more risky setup for a grow. I read up on some solo cup challenges so I decided to have a go at one for my first attempt at growing my own bud. Other than growing at quite a slow pace to start(Honestly I've lost track of what week I'm in now. It's probably pushing 2 to 2 1/2 months at this point.), it's been a pretty smooth experience so far. Saw white pistils pretty early and thought I was set. Switched to a 12/12 cycle not long ago and the plant has responded by growing this:

I'm afraid I already know the answer but I wanted to get a more educated grower's opinion before I ruin nearly 2 months of growth. If it is indeed a hermie, is it in any way salvageable/still worth growing other than seeds? Is the only difference between fem bud and herm bud potency? I'd imagine herm bud would be just as smokable just with slightly less "oomph". Is that not correct?

 

[415friendly]

I would say, "yes...those definitely look like pollen sacs".
I don't have any experience with hermies, so that's all I've got for you.

 

[Og kush 1911]

I'm pretty sure that's a hermy I see both female and male parts but Forsure toss it

 

[TheMadDabber]

100000%

 

[Cannibcody]

The bud from a hermie plant is definitely smokeable...BUT during its flowering time the plant puts most of its energy in to making seeds instead of making potent buds.... also you'll prolly end up with more seeds than bud tbh... id toss it myself... good luck

 

[Drewbz]

Would revegging be a viable option this far along? I say that because it 100% showed female first before the sacs. Could removing the sacs and going for a reveg possibly save the grow? Keep in mind this grow is moreso for education and practice. It's also the only plant I have growing so I don't have to worry about pollen effecting other plants right now.

 

[Og kush 1911]

Would revegging be a viable option this far along?

Nah it's not worth it to grow any more just try growing a clone or a fem seed and take this grow as a learning experience

 

[Cannibcody]

Would revegging be a viable option this far along?

Big negative on that buddy... once a plant has hermied it'll always be a hermie... it'll also pass the hermie trait on to all of its seeds

 

[TheMadDabber]

Would revegging be a viable option this far along?

This isn't female throwing bananas in late flower.... It legit has both male and female parts. No point in saving.... sorry .

 

[Drewbz]

Sorry I made you guys give such bad news. I had a feeling that's where this thread was headed though. Thank you for all of the info!

 

[LB07]

Sorry I made you guys give such bad news. I had a feeling that's where this thread was headed though. Thank you for all of the info!

My first plant I grew hermied as well! It happens brotha!

 

[kempoxp]

Could just be a simple pollination from environment. And the seeds regular seeds. In my opinion

 

[cgkone]

I'm forcing a plant to herm now so when I saw the picture all I thought was "lucky duck"!!!
That's good pollen brother.
If you can get the same strain sometime in the future you have the capability to have dozens of S1 seeds.

 

[The Germinator]

Could just be a simple pollination from environment. And the seeds regular seeds. In my opinion

Incorrect. It's a hermie. It didn't get pollinated.

 

[The Germinator]

I'm forcing a plant to herm now so when I saw the picture all I thought was "lucky duck"!!!
That's good pollen brother.
If you can get the same strain sometime in the future you have the capability to have dozens of S1 seeds.

Incorrect. Terrible pollen. It seeds will be prone to hermie.
Forcing a female to pollinate by using colloidal silver is different than a plant that hermies on its own.

 

[cgkone]

Incorrect. Terrible pollen. It seeds will be prone to hermie.
Forcing a female to pollinate by using colloidal silver is different than a plant that hermies on its own.

Wrong
Pollen from a herm ,used to pollinate a female plant gives you S1 seeds that are females 99% of the time.
I've done it many times bro.
The seeds from the hermie are unstable

 

[cgkone]

Incorrect. Terrible pollen. It seeds will be prone to hermie.
Forcing a female to pollinate by using colloidal silver is different than a plant that hermies on its own.

Forcing a plant using SC will give you unstable seed as well.
You force with SC and use on a female and harvest S1
Either way that's how you get S1 seeds

 

[The Germinator]

Forcing a plant using SC will give you unstable seed as well.
You force with SC and use on a female and harvest S1
Either way that's how you get S1 seeds

You've got a lot to learn. I'll post an article that discusses this subject. You're contradicting yourself.

 

[The Germinator]

Wrong
Pollen from a herm ,used to pollinate a female plant gives you S1 seeds that are females 99% of the time.
I've done it many times bro.
The seeds from the hermie are unstable

That's what I said. The seeds from a hermie are unstable.

 

[The Germinator]

I'de like to take a moment to help clarify some cloudy areas pertaining to Feminized seeds and Hermaphroditism.



First and foremost, many people aren't aware that Hermaphroditism is 100% natural in flowering plants and it's an actual survival adaptation.



Cannabis is a very simple but yet very complex organism. It has many adaptational abilities that help it ensure that it's genetics will prevail, in this aspect it is very simple and similar to all other dioecious plants. The Cannabis plant is a dioecious annual angiosperm. Also known as an annual flowering plant that has either male or female sex parts. Flowering plants have long been the study of amazing survival phenomena. There are many different types of flowering plants most of which are classified into two categories, Bisexual or Unisexual. Almost all Bisexual plants are literally natural Hermaphrodites or Monoclinous. Once classified as either Bisexual or Unisexual there are many other classifications that more specifically describes the sexual situations and genetic tendancies of the species itsself.



Cannabis falls into the Unisexual category. But Cannabis is actually very unique and quite complex in the sexual aspect of plant life. Cannabis is a Dioecious species. However, It also falls into the Subdioecious family. Subdioecious is a tendency in some dioecious plants to produce monoecious variants. The plant in particular would have to normally produce male or female plants but some are hermaphroditic, with female plants producing some male or hermaphroditic flowers or vice versa. The condition is thought to represent a transition between hermaphroditism and dioecy.



Hermaphroditism is a genetic adaptation present in almost all flowering plant life. With regard to Cannabis this is even more evident as every single cannabis plant sustains the ability to turn hermaphroditic in its genes. Regardless of the male/female genetic material inside the seed.



In lamen terms, what this means is that even with regular Cannabis seeds you can still end up with a hermaphrodite because it's a reserved genetic ability.



However, there is a twist and an actual reason for it. The only way a Cannabis plant will turn hermaphroditic is if it has some type of irregular and/or sudden stressor. This stressor could be anything, from a sudden lack of nutrients all the way to light leaks. Also, different strains and genetic compounds will exhibit different stress level requirements. Meaning some genetics will hermaphrodite a lot easier than others and vice versa.



To achieve feminized seeds you have to create a genetic anomole where the male gene is completely absent but the sexual exchange still occurs... It can be any strain or genetic compound of Cannabis plant because they all contain the hormones and growth response to turn hermaphroditic but it has to be female. In order to trigger that hormone however, what has to happen is the plant must be stressed to the point that it triggers the Hermaphroditic hormonal growth response. There are numerous methods to stress a Cannabis plant to the point that it turns hermaphroditic. The most common method used amoung professional breeders is the use of Collidial Silver chemical hormone compound. Once the hormone has been triggered the plant instinctively begins to produce pollen sacs. These pollen sacs are very unique though because they do not contain any male genes. They are all female genetics. The result of pollenation from female pollen is seeds that have developed in the absence of male genes, a.k.a. feminized seeds.



The myth behind all this is that somehow by doing this it segregates the plants hermaphroditic genes and makes them more prominent. I call it a myth because it is exactly that. There is no scientific evidence that this occurs or that this phenomena even CAN occur. The hermaphroditic ability is determined in the plants genetics from the beginning of it's life as a seed... If the original plant/s genetics are naturally prone to hermaphroditism than ANY seed, feminized or not, is going to exhibit that ability based on that plants genetic tendancies and the stress levels required to trigger the hormonal response specific to that plant. There is no way to change that plants genetic compound or it's hormonal response levels. To achieve something like that would require genetic manipulation. Hermaphrodites are not genetically altered plants. They are 100% natural and carry all the original genetics of the mother plant... A feminized seed will respond the same as a normally bred seed under the same environmental stressors.



My opinion on this is that I have yet to see anyone actually try to prove this by side by side trial. However, I stand a firm ground by the side of the current scientific evidence on the issue. The only seeds I will use are feminized seeds. I wouldn't have it any other way. Throughout my cultivation experience I have indeed had a few hermies that just happened to have been sprouted from feminized seeds. However that doesn't make them any different from the hermies I got from regular seeds. Yes, I have and you can too, get a hermaphrodite from regular seeds.



Before I knew anything about genetics, botany, or feminized seeds I did like everyone else did. Just took seeds from a good bag, germinated them in paper towel, then planted them in the dirt and hoped for the best. Being inexperienced during my beginning years of cultivation my environments were always far from optimal. I had bullchit CFL setups and T5s at the time, scrappy grow boxes that weren't properly sealed off and what not. I was having horrible luck. I had more males than females half the time. And the females I did get were the sorriest excuse for a deficient plant you could imagine. Something striked me as odd one harvest when I noticed two of my ladies had beans in it! I was absolutely POSITIVE I had weeded out all the males. Needless to say I found two hermaphrodites. At the time I didn't know Cannabis plants could do that. That's when I got online and started reading about hermaphroditism. That's right, I learned and experienced my first hermaphrodites from REGULAR Cannabis seeds. I learned as much as I could about the subject after that. I started getting very serious about cultivating. I even took a Botany class to help better my understanding of plant life. Once I learned about feminized seeds, hermaphroditism and everything in between, I went femi and never looked back!



The bottom line is this. Any Cannabis plant can turn hermie. Some strains are more prone to the response than others. We cannot change that response, it is genetic.



Here's a good way to look at it also -



You can start with 10 regular seeds and end up with 10 females. Or you could end up with 10 males. Or you could end up with 9 males and 1 female. Or you can end up with 8 males, 1 hermie and 1 female. Or 9 females and 1 male. Or you could end up with 8 females, 1 hermie and 1 male. Or you could end up with 10 hermies. (LOTS of variables)



Or you can start with 10 feminized seeds and end up with 10 females. Or you could end up with 9 females and 1 hermie. Or you can end up with 8 females, 1 hermie, and uhhh, another female? Or you could end up with 10 hermies... (Only a few variables)



The point is, regardless of the hermaphroditic tendancy, by using feminized seeds you VASTLY increase your chances of a female outcome. Not to mention it can save a LOT of time by cloning those feminized plants. The actual biological proccess of inducing the hermaphroditic hormone, whether it is induced naturally or chemically, is basically an exploit on a natural occurance. But this does not mean that it's not a natural occurance to begin with.



I hope this helps some people understand this whole deboggle a little better.



Any input, opinions or further research are always welcome!