Automation advice needed

[Juggernaut]

Hi everyone

I'm planning a personal grow room and want to incorporate automation to minimise risk of human error. I've looked into various vendors offering alot of different sensors and controllers for most key factors while growing. The sheer volume of options is getting slightly overwhelming. From high end commercial controllers to basic raspberry pi ones, it's getting tricky to decide. Since I'm planning a hydroponic (most likely dwc and ebb n flow combo) system, I'd like your advice for a cost effective but definitely reliable option. I don't want to break the bank but i definitely understand that quality will require a good monetary amount.

I want to be able to remotely monitor and control the following:
1. Light schedule
2. Temperature and humidity (AC and dehumidifier to go with the sensors)
3. PH in the individual buckets and the reservoir (I'm starting off with 4-6 buckets max to test out different variables)
4. Nutrient dosing - Now this is what's bothering me the most. I wouldn't mind checking and dosing daily manually however I'm looking for a non commercial scale nutrient dosing solution to manage PPMs at configurable levels. I'm getting attracted to advanced nutrients ph stable (or whatever it is called) connoisseur line or the remo nutrients line. Both require multiple products in specific quantities for each top up. The schedule and dosages can be assessed but i would like a controller that can auto dose live as and when nutrients keep getting used up. I don't want overdosing but live monitoring and top ups should provide a stress free environment to the roots. The blueline controllers seem to be the ideal fit but the price point really makes it more worthwhile as a commercial scale tool. I'm not going commercial. It's strictly for personal consumption so the cost just seemed not worth it.

If anyone has any input to give on any of the aforementioned points it would be highly appreciated. There are some fantastic growers out here and nothing beats experience. I've done my due diligence as far as researching the science behind it all goes. Now I'd appreciate an experienced opinion about any specific product or setup you people could recommend.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Skybound has been working on this for a couple years now and has almost finished building an automated system from the ground up. I don't know if he'd know much about the commercial options, but it's worth asking.
Here's his current journal. https://www.420magazine.comjournals-in-progress/315470-round-3-capn-style-automated.html

 

[cnile]

Yea I looked into this. Do it right and for a small room. 10x10 feet it turns out to be a damn fortune

Not to mention if you want something to beat a human, any machine you use to control you would want a redundant system also. Otherwise it's one mechanical fail and that portion is offline completely.

With all the variables to control in a grow I didn't find it viable unless I had a large warehouse to offset the startup/payout or someone else writing the checks.

You'll notice you can find contractors for cheap but if you want quality those prices jump so I would go low voltage.

I've always liked low voltage control if you do get into it. I've ran lots of it and with a transformer you can run low volt wire. Low volt you can string up just about anywhere, unlike 120v


You could do it all with a digital. Honeywell thermostat with heat/cool/humidity/hvac.
Just like a thermostat in a house.
Mount that to a electrical cabinet with everything inside and controlled power out to your devices.

Cooling
Heating
Humidity
Dehumidification
Lighting
Alarms
Wifi control
Transformer
Contacts
Power in
Relays

Not to mention all of those interact with each other so trying to dial it in would be fun I'll bet.


Then do that for all different environments and it's done.

I said screw it.



That's a diy take on it really just for environment.
That didn't enemy touch your want for chemical control.



Of course buying everything would be easier.


Sent from my iPhone using 420

 

[Weaselcracker]

Skybound's done it on the cheap with an arduino and no technical training whatsoever, just a sharp mind and a lot of invested time.

 

[cnile]

What I went with was self controlled units. So humidifier and dehumidifier both have own sensors. Heater has its own sensor cooling, intake fans and extraction have speed controllers and lights have simple 120 timers.

It's more interaction with the room but still somewhat automated, especially for days at a time; not weeks


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[Juggernaut]

Yea I looked into this. Do it right and for a small room. 10x10 feet it turns out to be a damn fortune

Not to mention if you want something to beat a human, any machine you use to control you would want a redundant system also. Otherwise it's one mechanical fail and that portion is offline completely.

With all the variables to control in a grow I didn't find it viable unless I had a large warehouse to offset the startup/payout or someone else writing the checks.

You'll notice you can find contractors for cheap but if you want quality those prices jump so I would go low voltage.

I've always liked low voltage control if you do get into it. I've ran lots of it and with a transformer you can run low volt wire. Low volt you can string up just about anywhere, unlike 120v


You could do it all with a digital. Honeywell thermostat with heat/cool/humidity/hvac.
Just like a thermostat in a house.
Mount that to a electrical cabinet with everything inside and controlled power out to your devices.

Cooling
Heating
Humidity
Dehumidification
Lighting
Alarms
Wifi control
Transformer
Contacts
Power in
Relays

Not to mention all of those interact with each other so trying to dial it in would be fun I'll bet.


Then do that for all different environments and it's done.

I said screw it.



That's a diy take on it really just for environment.
That didn't enemy touch your want for chemical control.



Of course buying everything would be easier.


Sent from my iPhone using 420

It really does end up costing you an arm and a leg. My estimate so far is exceeding 10k dollars already (import and taxes etc). I don't mind spending what's necessary but since it's not even for resale purposes it might be a lil bit of overkill lol.

You're spot on about the redundancy as well. I will be managing and monitoring it daily. The reason for automation is to reduce the margin of error.

I love the idea of de humidifiers with internal sensors. That should keep it fairly stable.

I'm also looking into a solar panel option to hook up to a dedicated inverter ac to control temperature. A good solar powered setup paired with a nice sine wave ups would keep everything running constantly (we have a lot of regular power outages here).

As for the diy automation i came across this raspberry pi powered project for vivariums that can be used for grow rooms as well. That's open source and ridiculously cheap plus the joy of diy. I just want sure about the reliability.

The nutrient automation is still a major concern. That's the one area where everyone has "plans underway" but haven't come across any that's reliable and not costing 2k dollars or something lol.

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[cnile]

For your nutes get a big res. That will make it probably more simple than an automated chemical dispersing machine.

Get a large res with high ppm base nutes Let it ph stabilize.

Feed this regularly. Keep for two weeks.

Use smaller bukets if you have special need plants - pull from main res, add additives/dilute/add base nutes.

Accomplishing this with the least amount of ph up and ph down is the best. Don't pull from your main res then add 15 things to make the ph bounce everywhere.

If it's a funny batch mix it up alone or special shit in it.

If it's just something that will naturally bring the ph of main res to optimal spot then even better.

That's easiest way I have found.


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[cnile]

Rasberry pi is awesome. Support the creator if you can. It's open source as you said. The price is cheap because of that, not its cheap build quality.

You can pair the rasberry with relays very easily and wifi alarms.


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[Juggernaut]

I'm always willing to pitch in to the diy open source community. They put in sooo much effort to make life easier for everyone.

The thing is that electrical working is the one area where i actually fall short as far as technical knowledge goes. I definitely should read up more on the subject. Maybe i could enlist the help of a professional for this department (know your limits and don't let the grow suffer because of overconfidence lol)

Ok as for the nutes I'm torn between remo and advanced nutrients. Advanced nutrients claim that their entire line is ph stable or something. It keeps ph at 5.5. So ph shouldn't be much of an issue.

The reservoir seems so simple and efficient however i plan to grow 3-4 different strains to test em out in the system. Which is why i was thinking of individual dwc buckets to avoid cross contamination bit i guess that would be overthinking it

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[Nonpoint]

I'm always willing to pitch in to the diy open source community. They put in sooo much effort to make life easier for everyone.

The thing is that electrical working is the one area where i actually fall short as far as technical knowledge goes. I definitely should read up more on the subject. Maybe i could enlist the help of a professional for this department (know your limits and don't let the grow suffer because of overconfidence lol)

Ok as for the nutes I'm torn between remo and advanced nutrients. Advanced nutrients claim that their entire line is ph stable or something. It keeps ph at 5.5. So ph shouldn't be much of an issue.

The reservoir seems so simple and efficient however i plan to grow 3-4 different strains to test em out in the system. Which is why i was thinking of individual dwc buckets to avoid cross contamination bit i guess that would be overthinking it

Sent from my SM-N9005 using 420 Magazine Mobile App

controls are not that complicated. They are easier to learn doing it yourself and if you have a problem, you know where to look because you made it. Just start small and work your way up. You can make some cool stuff cheap if you want stay analog.

 

[Skybound]

I did a search on 420 for "automated" and found this thread. Thanks for the props Weaselcracker! I am happy to share my experiences and skills acquired in my journey for the same thing, an automated grow, and for the same reason, a fail safe against myself. I just want to grow pot, and actually enjoy the growing and not be so caught up in the details that DO need to be addressed, especially in a hydro grow, and extra especially in a DWC system.

At the beginning, I was checking out the various different little boards on the market, and just familiarizing myself with the terms, but I ultimately decided on Arduino as the community is exponentially larger than rPi, and from there the "support" availability decreases. Imagine having to learn circuit building and a programming language in some empty forum with little to no feedback. In the development of my project, being able to ask a question and get 6 replies in just a few hours has streamlined my ability to learn what I needed to learn a lot.

I did some reading up on the commercial control options, and I am not all that impressed. Most don't even get you online, and the ones that do only have very limited levels of control, and for the price just made me nauseous. What I seek (to build) is to be able to control any and everything involved in my grow that uses 3 volts or more. I am roughly 2/3 of the way to this goal. I now have the ability to monitor temp/humidity in 2 bloom rooms, in circuit time keeper, and to start an 8 relay module wired into 120 VAC duplex outlets, each rated up to 10 amps, though I won't use more than 5 amps per channel (600w HPS=5 amps). I also have another 8 channel relay module, and if need be, can slap together another bank of 8 outlets to manage more devices if need be. All relays are coded for and will either be power cycled according to time, atmosphere, or an unscheduled command from a free Android/IoS app that is running on my smartphone somewhere on the www.

I am in the last stretch of rebuilding some flawed circuits and updating my code and expect to have this much in my grow as soon as next week. I am also juggling that with the construction of my bloom rooms, so this may be later than sooner, but it will be very shortly. I don't want to jam up your thread with my single point of view, and believe me, there is so much more to explain and details to emphasize, but that would require like 1200 more paragraphs. As soon as I get things where I want them, I will also shoot videos to better articulate the details. Here are some visualizations I made to better convey where I am going with this;

 

[Skybound]

FYI, I've plumbed 2 houses, and added new 120 VAC and 240 VAC circuits to other houses, all with skills acquired from YouTube! If you're a level headed individual, and have done your diligence and feel safe to proceed, by all means. I am totally 100% a DIYer and usually learn by trial and error.

 

[Juggernaut]

Wow this is fantastic. And yes trial and error is the best way forward. I love figuring out how things work and this should be like any other area of interest. Thanks Skybound. You've been extremely helpful

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[cnile]

Man in glad your getting into it. I have been putting it off until I get everything else figured out to a T then I'm gonna be adding automation also.

When you start getting into it just a little tutorial or journal about it would be cool so we can see too. Have a good one.


Sent from my iPhone using 420

 

[sizz0e]

Hi everyone

I'm planning a personal grow room and want to incorporate automation to minimise risk of human error. I've looked into various vendors offering alot of different sensors and controllers for most key factors while growing. The sheer volume of options is getting slightly overwhelming. From high end commercial controllers to basic raspberry pi ones, it's getting tricky to decide. Since I'm planning a hydroponic (most likely dwc and ebb n flow combo) system, I'd like your advice for a cost effective but definitely reliable option. I don't want to break the bank but i definitely understand that quality will require a good monetary amount.

I want to be able to remotely monitor and control the following:
1. Light schedule
2. Temperature and humidity (AC and dehumidifier to go with the sensors)
3. PH in the individual buckets and the reservoir (I'm starting off with 4-6 buckets max to test out different variables)
4. Nutrient dosing - Now this is what's bothering me the most. I wouldn't mind checking and dosing daily manually however I'm looking for a non commercial scale nutrient dosing solution to manage PPMs at configurable levels. I'm getting attracted to advanced nutrients ph stable (or whatever it is called) connoisseur line or the remo nutrients line. Both require multiple products in specific quantities for each top up. The schedule and dosages can be assessed but i would like a controller that can auto dose live as and when nutrients keep getting used up. I don't want overdosing but live monitoring and top ups should provide a stress free environment to the roots. The blueline controllers seem to be the ideal fit but the price point really makes it more worthwhile as a commercial scale tool. I'm not going commercial. It's strictly for personal consumption so the cost just seemed not worth it.

If anyone has any input to give on any of the aforementioned points it would be highly appreciated. There are some fantastic growers out here and nothing beats experience. I've done my due diligence as far as researching the science behind it all goes. Now I'd appreciate an experienced opinion about any specific product or setup you people could recommend.

I do the know if I'm too late but if you want automated, with little interaction look into grow leaf or ileaf. It's pretty neat.

Thank a veteran.

 

[sleepless]

This is my next project and I know nothing.

I am hoping to rig mine up to eventually control;

Light Cycle
Temp
Humidity
Water cycle

And once that's down I'd like to connect to my 4 zone lawn/garden system as well.

Getting started is where I'm falling flat.

Just not sure what to order for learning purposes that won't later go to waste.

 

[Skybound]

YouTube to start. Watch THIS. They have a few different Arduino tutorial series. Also, in a few days when you've watched every Arduino video, read through my blog. It's outdated bigtime, but I did hash out almost every newbie subject related to what we're trying to do, so you might get something from that. Arduino also has it's own forum with thousands of members. They are a bit conceited, but tolerating that (for me) was the price I had to pay to learn what I needed to know to advance. I can probably fill in a lot of the blanks for you, but even after 3 years studying it, I am still very much a newb, just a more informed one.