Decarboxylation in oil

[kedabra]

Hello 420

Decarbing bud on a tray stinks my house out, and I lose terpenes.

I am aiming to dissolve my cannabinoids in olive oil probably. Is there any reason why I can't do this all at once by just heating oil in the oven in a jar to 120C adding the bud, stirring and leaving it for 30 minutes? Thus decarbing, retaining terpenes and not stinking house out all at once.

I don't quite understand the chemistry. Will decarboxylation occur when the cannnabinoids are (partially) dissolved in oil? Why do people say to decarb in air?

Thanks!

 

[Lab Rat]

Some decarb in air and some the oil; some of it has to do with how the oil is made, be it a cold wash or a hot extraction. Decarbing the oil is definitely less stinky but your temp and time are about right. I would use 27 minutes @ 250*f.

How do you intend to keep exactly 120*C for 30 minutes?

 

[Lab Rat]

I'm not going to tell you what to do or how to do it but I would recommend one of these:

[video=youtube;RcR4xoTucEA]

[/video]

Its a NuWave PIC2 induction cooktop; goes from 40*C (100*F) to about 280*C (550*F) with around a 1*C +/- margin of error. Its extremely accurate.

 

[kedabra]

Some decarb in air and some the oil; some of it has to do with how the oil is made, be it a cold wash or a hot extraction. Decarbing the oil is definitely less stinky but your temp and time are about right. I would use 27 minutes @ 250*f.

How do you intend to keep exactly 120*C for 30 minutes?

Do you mean some people decarb in oil/air or some cannabinoids decarb in air/oil?

My aim is to produce olive oil infused with active cannabinoids and terpenes from a 50/50 CBD/THC bud.

My proposed method is to put a jam jar containing 100ml extra virgin olive oil inside a fan assisted oven , set to 120C, and leave it to warm up. I have an oven thermometer to make sure the temp is right. When its hot I would add 5-10g of ground bud to the oil, stir it in quickly, put a lid on the jar loosely, then put it back in the oven, set to 120C, for 30 minutes. The oven has a thermostat.

I would then strain the plant matter out of the oil. Or maybe just leave it in.

Would this method effectively decarboxylate the cannabinoids in the oil? Can they decarb efficiently when dissolved in an oil?

I should add that I'm using a strain with about 50/50 CBD/THC. Ideally I'd like to decarb both of these, but I guess CBD is my priority. I'm guessing that means I should use longer cook times?

 

[Neil Rothwell]

Decarb can also be accomplished with a coffee mug warmer (Walmart etc) a mason jar and your ingredients. Mix both ingredients and place capped mason jar on mug warmer for 2-3 days. End result is very good transfer of cannabinoids into the oil. Not all cannabinoids are transferred to the oil so save the plant material (buds and leaf only) to add to soup/sauces/stews.

 

[Lab Rat]

I decarb the product but some decarb the oil, regardless of the method accurate temperature control and time is key. Most oven thermostats are way off and even some oven thermometers have error in them. For precision nothing like mercury. With a mercury lab thermometer (-20*C-150*C) I found that my oven thermometer was 10*C off.

How long does it take for those 100 ml of olive oil to heat up to 120*C? You are making assumptions ... When the oil hits 120*C is when the decarb starts, not when you put in the jar.

What would be the purpose of this oil? Sleep aid, nausea, appetite control, anti-tumoral, anti-inflammatory? Some things are done better by CBD and some by THC so you need to know what you want prior to decarbing.

Contrary to what some people think you can't do the oil one way and use it for everything; yes the strain is also important but with a 1:1 you could choose what you want.

We know that the CBD decarb temp is lower but that's pretty much it. When decarbing @ 120*C you are boosting THC until 27 minutes but then THC rapidly start converting to CBN so you end up with a high THC/CBD or with a high CBN/CBD oil from a 51 minute decarb from the same strain.

 

[Lab Rat]

You will find that some decarb with low temp and time and since decarb does happen naturally over time some of it will actually decarb but how hot does a coffee mug warmer actually get. Heck you can decarb by just letting it sit there for a week.

I guess its your decision whether you want the more laid back "unattended" version or the more scientific and thorough version.

 

[PsyCro]

Olive oil extract update

Just an fyi on my method .. good luck!

 

[kedabra]

Does anyone have a graph or other info like this for CBD?

 

[Lab Rat]

No I wish but the video does mention that the temp for CBD decarb is 85*C. By decarbing for a longer period of time you can convert the THC to CBN and make the CBD more readily available.

 

[PsyCro]

Link for decarbing temps:
Extraction of pharmaceutically active components from plant materials - GW Pharma Limited

about halfway down you have info and tables for decarbing both THC and CBD. I used the CBD info to make oil from CBD Nordle (just under 120*C for a little over an hour).. good pain relief in any case

No I wish but the video does mention that the temp for CBD decarb is 85*C. By decarbing for a longer period of time you can convert the THC to CBN and make the CBD more readily available.

At that temp it just 'starts' to decarb

 

[Lab Rat]

This has been my main focus for quite some time, to get different effects from the same strain simply by decarbing for more or less time at 120*C/250*F.

The supercritical method disclosed in PCT/GB02/00620 produced:

a) a high THC extract containing:
60% THC (Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol)
1–2% CBD (cannabidiol)
4–5% other minor cannabinoids including CBN (cannabinol)
(Quantative yields were 9% wt/wt based on dry weight of medicinal cannabis); and

b) a high CBD extract containing:
60% CBD
4% THC
2% other cannabinoids
(Quantative yields were 9% wt/wt based on dry weight of medicinal cannabis).

I'm still looking at the link but I can't see any mention of two different strains.

 

[kedabra]

about halfway down you have info and tables for decarbing both THC and CBD. I used the CBD info to make oil from CBD Nordle (just under 120*C for a little over an hour).. good pain relief in any case

that looks about right....

 

[Lab Rat]

There are several guides on how to make pure oil, the main difference is purity and yield.

How To Make Concentrated Cannabis Oil

DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this post is provided for informational purposes only. 420 Magazine makes every effort to present accurate and reliable information, however 420 Magazine does not represent, warrant, or certify any information displayed, nor does it guarantee the safety...

www.420magazine.com

39% extraction yield RSO

I do cut mine with olive oil but after I've made the oil.

Regardless of how you make it you should dose correctly.

Cannabis Oil Dosing Tutorial: Tacking Method

Mission Statement: This OPINION is a guide for people who have run out of all traditional medical options for cancer or other serious illness, have heard of concentrated cannabis oil and its healing properties, and want to treat themselves or a loved one in a safe manner. These opinions are...

www.420magazine.com

 

[tokezilla]

This has been my main focus for quite some time, to get different effects from the same strain simply by decarbing for more or less time at 120*C/250*F.

The supercritical method disclosed in PCT/GB02/00620 produced:

a) a high THC extract containing:
60% THC (Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol)
1–2% CBD (cannabidiol)
4–5% other minor cannabinoids including CBN (cannabinol)
(Quantative yields were 9% wt/wt based on dry weight of medicinal cannabis); and

b) a high CBD extract containing:
60% CBD
4% THC
2% other cannabinoids
(Quantative yields were 9% wt/wt based on dry weight of medicinal cannabis).

I'm still looking at the link but I can't see any mention of two different strains.

Must be two different strains. Would be impossible to reach 60% CBD yield from a typical low-CBD strain and still maintain the same 9% quantitative yield. The GW patent is a great resource but would be more helpful if they identified the strains and provided analytics on the raw plant materials.

Many thanks for the references!

 

[Cannabelle]

What are you using this oil with? If you are using the oil to cook or bake with, the product will further decarb @ 300 degrees F. The objective is to leech the cannabinoids without denaturing them. Fortunately, cannabinoids are oil soluble and a water buffer insures that the cannabinoids don't overheat and denature because water can't get hotter than it's boiling point where it turns into steam at 100c or 212f. You reach your cannabinoid leeching objective through low heat and long cooking time as can be seen in the following chart for olive oil:

The same study concluded:

Based on the results of our preheating experiments,
comparing a mild water bath treatment to more intense
heating in an oven, it can be concluded that it is not
feasible to perform decarboxylation of cannabinoids,
without significant loss of terpene components. This is
particularly important because of the fact that users of
Cannabis oils often claim the holistic nature of cannabis
components to be responsible for its therapeutic
effects. Retaining the full spectrum of terpenes present
in fresh cannabis material should therefore be a major
focus during optimal Cannabis oil production. ​

Thus, if you truly wish to perfect your medication for personal use, I suggest you look-up the chemical analysis charts from the Italy-Netherlands co-research project for specific heating recommendations and split your oil extract and cook them at the settings to reach optimal decarb temps for THC, CBD and specific terpenes.

 

[adamorona]

If that curve exist, which I think does. and the model is real, like the atom model, weve never seen a nucleus and protons we assume the model exist in that fashion due to trial and error of experiments with elements, and if followed, creates an atomic bomb, thus making the human made model of an atom very accurate to its real existence, even though we can't see it. we assume it exist in that fashion and act accordingly to the model to create a desired effect (atomic bomb). This THC decarboxylation model is the same and has proved in my case to be very effective and accurate in the idea, its just the temperatures and times are always far more and longer because I am not using an extract, I am using flower. The danker the cannabis, the longer. Top Top Flight, like when you cant choose because they're all so dank and you just pick one 10/10 dense and stinky; 280 degrees F for 4-6 hours, gaged with an infrared temperature gun or other measuring device. if the bud is shwag and smells like hey; 280 degrees F for 1-3 hours. I like using dankest of the dank at 245 degrees F for 10-15 hours. The lower the temp and longer seem to produce and lingering longer lasting effect. Butter as the carrier seems to have a longer more lingering effect than non saturated fat oils IE olive oil, coconut oil, sunflower seed oil etc. I would assume what is happening is around the 10-15 hour mark of the decarboxylation of DANK at 245 degrees F is it reaches that curve's tipping point. The 10-15th hour is decided upon by smell. Once decarboxylating the cannabis begins to give off its pungent smell, just as if you took a whiff of the jar before decarboxylating it has this pungent effect it does to your nose, almost like smelling vinegar. During the entire time of decarboxylating I check the cannabis every hour and it never fails, its towards the end of the time I have to really watch is closely to gauge that pungent nose effect type of smell. towards the end that pungentness begins to wear off and it no longer has that same extreme smell on your nose it begins to finaly fall off and become less noticeable. In my day of trial and error I would say this is the point when the thc has reached the tipping point and begins to fall onto the other side as soon as it loses its vibrant physical pungent smell. I find if I do not decarb until right when it reaches this point and begins to lose its smell the effects do not last as long and are more head high without the body and stoned feeling like when you take a bong rip, also the effects come on faster, easy come easy go. What I imagine I am doing is losing that smell right at the tipping point then I go about 30 minutes more when at 245 degrees F to get just a little bit more cbd and cbn to create the longer lasting effects which also take longer to come on after ingested but then last longer. the longer it takes to come on the longer the effects. The model shows 15 mg THC max middle point. AS SOON AS THE SMELL is NOTICEABLY going away you are already in the middle beginning to tip toward the other side. it takes minutes its very precise and time consuming to put your energy into checking. at 245 degrees F you can check the oven and it still smells pungent during hour 11 or 12 and then you shut it and within 20 minutes it will dissipate to the other side by the time you check it it is too late and your already down from 15 mg to 14 or even 13 mg and even lower it is very time sensitive. and you have to pull the cannabis out on what ever tray it is on and smell it up close within a few inches whiles its hot to gauge the smell correctly while its still HOT. then put it back into the oven and when it gets closer towards the end of the decarboxylation you have to check the smell every 5 to ten minutes to make sure..... hence making the time between 10-15 hours because every strain begins to lose that smell at different times. so I check it at hour 12 again and go nahh the smells still completely there put it back in check it 10 mins later naa still there again still there again still there then after the 10th or 15th time checking it its like alright now its going away then I put it back in there for another 5 inutes and check again like alright its definenetly going away then put it back in for another 5 or 10 minutes and pull it out like okay now its definetly going completely away and that's when I take it out....... when the smell is gone and Is going away but is stillllllll kind of there maybe.... this is the point where the thc in my belief has gone from 15mg in the model to approximately 14.5. at the (253 degrees F curve).... then the edible knocks very hard at my door for a loonnnggg time especially if I use butter. this is all described using 245 degrees F. I look at everyones responses and youtube videos and other websites and no one decarbs as long as I do. but my friends and family say my edibles knock very hard and I believe its because most people don't decarb as long as they should as says Dr Paul Hornby. If Im using shwag, the time the smell goes away is significantly faster from 10-15 hours to just 1-6 hours give or take. your looking for the pungent effect in your nose to tapper off and with dank it takes quit some time.

 

[CLA]

I make a topical using organic olive oil, arnica oil, peppermint oil with bee balm and shea butter added at the end. I do a slow cook on low in a crockpot for about 6-8 hrs. I am under the impression that I am decarbing without denaturing. The cannabalm works great!

Am I correct that this method is complete and advance oven decarb is not required for efficacy?

 

[CLA]

I make a cannabalm using organic olive oil, arnica oil and peppermint oil, adding bee balm and shea butter at the end. I am under the impression that the slow cook for 6-8 hrs in the crock pot is effectively decarbing without denaturing. The balm works great, the color is nice and the consistency is soothing. Am I correct in my calculation or should I be decarbing in the oven first?

 

[zeroday]

I would *guess* no, you aren't decarbing. If you google the typical temperature of a slow cookers "Low" setting, it is 190f, THCA decarbs at 220f.