Making CBD without oil - Is it possible?

[MikkaTheEnt]

I have a friend who cannot tolerate oil. He wants to use CBD tinctures to help his pain, but everything we've found so far is made (or at least cut) with oil. Is it possible to make an oil-free CBD tincture?

EDIT: I gather that there are natural oils that come out of the plant material used to make CBD. Is it possible to somehow transfer the CBD in that resulting oil into some other tincture like material, like water or alcohol?

Also, dosing. I've found a lab that will test a home made tincture for $100 looking for potency, percentages of the presence of different cannabinoids, etc. Has any home maker of CBD ever had a lab testing, and if so, did you find it worthwhile? Or did you end up experimenting slowly with dosing till you found a therapeutic level, without knowing the concentration in your tincture?

 

[MikkaTheEnt]

Soooo ... lotsa views, no answers. Guess it's safe to assume that home making CBD tincture without ending up with oil is impossible. I have read about water soluble tincture but it apparently takes equipment unavailable and/or unaffordable to the home crafter. I think the answer for my friend is either CDB based RSO tacked to his gums, or vaping a CBD strain.

 

[VerdantSpires]

I have a friend who cannot tolerate oil.

I'd like to explore this statement a bit. So your friend can't eat cake, or avocardo, or pickled olives, or packaged sultanas, or lemon peel, or coconut, or buttered toast, or whole milk?

He wants to use CBD tinctures to help his pain, but everything we've found so far is made (or at least cut) with oil. Is it possible to make an oil-free CBD tincture?

A tincture is alcohol-based.

EDIT: I gather that there are natural oils that come out of the plant material used to make CBD. Is it possible to somehow transfer the CBD in that resulting oil into some other tincture like material, like water or alcohol?

Pure CBD is marketed, but as a medication is generally found to be inferior to the full extract product. Pharmaceutical companies market pure CBD but I do not know whether it is water soluble. Try googling.

CBD has anti-inflammatory properties so it can help with arthritis, but it doesn't do anything for neurological pain.

Also, dosing. I've found a lab that will test a home made tincture for $100 looking for potency, percentages of the presence of different cannabinoids, etc. Has any home maker of CBD ever had a lab testing, and if so, did you find it worthwhile?

There was a news item earlier this year that lab reports can be unreliable, some labs are substandard, or unethical and just give fake results.

Or did you end up experimenting slowly with dosing till you found a therapeutic level, without knowing the concentration in your tincture?

That's the usual course. Start with a low dose, and each day go up a bit.

 

[OldMedUser]

To get pure CBD you'd have to separate it from all the other cannabinoids like THC in the pot and that's well beyond the capabilities of most amateurs. You could just soak high CBD pot in pure ethanol and filter out the plant material but then you have everything that can dissolve in alcohol in the resulting oil which is actually better for you.

Finding a reputable vendor of pure CBD oil and dissolving it in ethanol is the best way to get a pure product but you need deep pockets depending on how much CBD buddy needs.

I'm growing high CBD plants but will be doing the testing on myself to see how it works.

Good luck!

 

[MikkaTheEnt]

I'd like to explore this statement a bit. So your friend can't eat cake, or avocardo, or pickled olives, or packaged sultanas, or lemon peel, or coconut, or buttered toast, or whole milk?

He had a gastric bypass. He has a lot of dietary resrictions. I don't know them all but I know he has trouble with many things, including what you mentioned here.

In the end he decided to vape, so we bought some isolate, a scale, some 2 oz bottles with droppers, PG and VG, and made our own. Problem fixed.

 

[VerdantSpires]

Good to hear you're all sorted.

Can you give a link to the isolate you bought, and the price? It occurs to me that people who must restrict themselves to fully legal medication could maybe buy the cheaper low-strength CBD hemp oil and fortify it with extra CBD.

 

[MikkaTheEnt]

CBD Isolate - pure cannabidiol - Bluebird Botanicals

 

[OldMedUser]

I have CBD vape juice made with just VG. New report out that PG causes cancer. Seems it gives off as much formaldehyde with one pull compared to a whole cigarette. I have brand new bottles of both.

 

[MikkaTheEnt]

How did you dissolve the isolate in just VG? I've always read that you need to dissolve in PG, then add VG to taste.

 

[VerdantSpires]

I see there's a vape juice based on coconut oil—I think they refer to it as inhalable coconut oil.

 

[MikkaTheEnt]

Thanks for the info, VerdantSpires. I did try OldMedUser's just-VG method, wasted a gram of isolate which never dissolved. I ended up switching from PG to Propanediol (a corn based product), it's about three times as expensive but if I don't have to inhale Formaldehyde with every puff, it's worth it. I will try coconut oil next time to see how that works.

 

[OldMedUser]

I haven't even tried the VG method yet and will be using BHO from regular plants for the experiment. The CBD VG e-cig juice I got from a compassion club in Kelowna, BC last summer. Was $40 for a 10ml vial and is 5mgCBD/ml. Don't notice a heck of a lot of joint pain relief but it's calming and a nice puff in bed while reading to drop off.

 

[MikkaTheEnt]

Just want to report a bit of success in switching out from VG to Propanediol.

It worked well at dissolving the isolate, but I had to use longer indirect heat (boiling water in coffee cup, dunk the bottle) to make sure the bits all got dissolved. It does bubble up when you shake the bottle, really small ones too, so it's a bit deceiving because you might think that you haven't dissolved everything and just keep on shaking for hours. But let it settle and you should see a clear product.

However ....

A few days later, crystals reappeared. Not a lot, but some. Reapplying indirect heat took care of that though, and the solution is clear once again. I will have to check it every week to see if this keeps reoccurring, but if all it takes is a bit more heat, it's not a huge problem.

What is a bit of a problem is that Propanediol seems to gunk up my coil and vape a lot more than PG did. It means I'll be cleaning the vape a lot more often, which isn't really a bad thing, with isopropyl alcohol. Plus maybe switching out the coils a little faster than I had originally anticipated. But replacement coils for my vape (Kangertech eVod) only cost about a dollar each.

Plus, Propanediol costs about three times as much as PG. But if I don't have to formaldehyde my lungs with every puff, it's worth it.

 

[gateswood]

Before you get too upset with PG, look a little further. The conditions of the NEJM study provide a vapor no one could withstand. Burned vapor really isn't tasty. Look at the parameters they used.

MMS: Error

Here's a good page for some plain English interpretation.

The Truth Behind the Formaldehyde Scare - Mt Baker Vapor

If you're concerned, use a temperature control personal vaporizer. 99+% CBD crystal isolate with terpenes dissolved in PG at a rate of 50 mg/ml works nice at 360° F and 2.4 volts into 0.2 ohms. NEJM couldn't find formaldehyde produced at 3.3 volts.

 

[Besmirched1]

Has anyone tried a simple full plant press and then heat reduced the resulting oil?