Critical Mass and the Scientific Method

[Closet Kine]

Hello all,

Let me start out by saying that this is my first attempt at growing indoors. Over the last several months I have immersed myself in learning the ins and outs of growing from various sources including magazines and DVD's. However the best source of info by far has come from fellow growers on the 420 Magazine forums and a few others which I will not name.

Now that that is out of the way a little about my setup.

The light is a Sun System HPS 150 that I purchased for starting seedlings. It will eventually be used for vegetative growing, supplemented with daylight CFLs. The tub is just a Rubbermaid that I got from wal-mart. The inside of which has been painted (poorly) with flat white paint. The light is suspended from a shower curtian (I had one handy, don't judge me).

The room is a walk in closet in my spare bedroom/office. It's dimensions are 4.5' x 8' x 8'. This area will eventually be a flowering room with a 1kw HPS, air conditioning/dehumidifier, and CO2. Rome wasn't built in a day so we will see, hopefully my funds will be able to keep up with the equipment needed as my grow grows(?).

Speaking of seeds I currently have 17 Mr. Nice Critical Mass germinating. They were soaked in a cup of distilled water overnight at which point they had all sunk to the bottom. They are now resting between sheets of moist paper towels. A few have already cracked with taproots showing. When I get a few more cracked they will be going into Rapid Rooters and under the light.

That's pretty much it for now. More details as they come. I promise that the quality of photos will improve with future posts. I have to get photoshop reinstalled on my computer so I can shoot in RAW format.

 

[Closet Kine]

Also any questions, comments, critiques welcome.

 

[Closet Kine]

Really quick update,

5 of the seeds had 1/4 inch taproots last night so they went into rapid rooters and under some CFL's. Upon arriving home from work the rest had sprouted so they went into rapid rooters. I lost a seed due to carelessness when I accidentally pinched the root off; I guess the count is 16 now. As long as I get one strong mother out of this first grow I will be happy, at least that's what I told myself after the fact. These are the seeds just prior to Rapid Rooter Placement.

This is a picture of the soon to be grow room with halfway decent color temperature.

Here are all of the seeds in Rapid Rooters in the Jiffy Pellet propagation tray. They are surrounded by Promix to hold them up and keep them from drying out too quickly. The whole affair is moistened with distilled water from a spray bottle.

One more with the tray cover in place.

Any questions, comments, or critiques are welcome.

 

[Closet Kine]

One more post because I'm bored,

This is the rig I'm using for seeds with 2 27w CFL's. It's pretty standard stuff, the old two Rubbermaid tubs stacked bit.

Ventilation is by a 120mm PC fan hooked to a 12v ac adapter donated by a long dead cell phone.

You can barely make out the light through the fan blades. It was originally one of those aluminum shop lights that comes with a clamp.

It has been cut to accommodate two bulbs. The foil tape is to keep me from cutting myself. The clamp from the light has been re-purposed, it now holds the cord and is used for height adjustment of the lamp.

As always all questions or comments are welcome.

 

[Hypo Hippy]

Yo CK...looking good. Glad to have you aboard. You will be knee-deep in green soon with all those little babies germinating. Nice looking set-up you got there. I am on my first indoor grow and this site has been invaluable to me from the very beginning. Welcome!

 

[Closet Kine]

Hey Hippie, thanks for the response. I took a look at your grow and things are looking good for you. I'll get over there and post as soon as I can, been pretty busy here today.

Quick update:

14 of sixteen seeds now have either above ground growth or roots growing out of the bottom of the rapid rooter so they all have been transplanted into solo cups and put under the HPS. The soil is 70% Promix BX and 30% FFOF watered in with distilled water. The two non-starters have been planted together until they show signs of life but will likely be culled eventually anyway. Temps holding steady at 75 degrees F. Enough yackin, time for some pics.

 

[Closet Kine]

Quick update,

Today marks 5 days since these seeds started germination. At this point I have culled the number of seedlings down to the twelve strongest. I noticed during germination that some of the seeds were breaking on the side as apposed to splitting at the tip. These were the seeds with the slowest growth. A few of these could have turned into strong seedlings but I'm not going to have the room for flowering all of these plants. You can't be sentimental about these things.

I currently have the girls under the HPS 150 running 24hrs. My hope is that running the light cycle this way for a couple of weeks then switching to 18/6 will induce pre-flowering so that I can get rid of the dudes as quickly as possible. Room temps are ranging from 79-83 degrees with 45-50% humidity. Enough talk time for the pics.

By the way if anyone is looking for a good simple free photo re-sizer check out faststone photo re-sizer. You can get it, tested spyware free, from cnet download. It's simple, works well, and its free.

As always; any questions, comments, or critiques are welcome.

 

[Hypo Hippy]

Hey CK,
Thanks for checking out my grow. You are looking good. It is amazing how fast these badgirls grow. We are at day 34 and ours are getting huge! Just started the flowering cycle today and can't wait to find our what the little suckers are....didn't use feminized seeds (probably the last time I won't). Anyhow, keep doing what you are doing. Be good.

 

[HawaiianDuck]

Aloha CK. Looks like you got things rolling for sure, sure is exciting getting things going, huh?! I dig your DIY style with your set-up. I think I would always prefer to take something old thats not in use than go and buy something fancy, or buy something cheap and re-fit it to serve your purposes as opposed to paying the top $$ that a lot of grow supply stores want. I built me a 8'x7'x7.5' hard walled grow room for about the same price as they want for a tent half that size. Plus I just like tinkering and building. Then combining that with growing, god its such a consuming hobbie...lol!
Couple quick things. I have about the same dimentions as your closet for my flowering space (mines 4'x7'), and after tons of research I decided that 2 600w HPS would be the best for a few reasons. Dont know if you already have that 1000w light yet, but I would be happy to discuss what I consider to be the pro's of the 2 6's, but the easy one is that with a 4'x8' space, you will loose a lot of light on the long edges (best light from the 1k is 4-4.5' sq). I am still pretty much a newb, so I mean this as a discussion, not a lecture point, so feel free to tell me where I am wrong fo sho.
Also, I don't believe the change from 24/0 to 18/6 light cycles would induce flowering, I am pretty sure you will have to bring it all the way down to 12/12.
Anyways, thats my 2 cents for now, but I'm subscribed and will enjoy watching how you do. Best of luck!!
HD

 

[Closet Kine]

Hey guys thanks for the comments,

Hippy - Congrats on the flip to 12/12. I see huge nugs in your future.

HD - Thanks for all of the info and the kind words. Your 100% right about building and re-purposing your equipment. I was at a local grow shop the other day looking for a 4X4 tray for the floor of my grow room. The prices floored me. $300 dollars for an extruded piece of plastic that maybe cost $10 to manufacture, maybe!! It's such a scam.
As for my light situation I have to tell you that it is something I debate with myself everyday. By the way I'm not planning to use the entire space for the flower room. I have a diagram that I made in MS Paint (don't laugh).

The actual flower room will be about 4.5 feet wide by 5.5 feet deep. However the first foot of the room will be space for the A/C, humidifier, etc so the actual grow area will be 4.5 foot square. I will build a partition wall out of 2X4's and panda plastic, the wall ac unit will be hung in this wall. The space between the two walls will house electrical components like the ballast and be used for storage. I want to keep the grow as stealthy as possible. The bedroom that this closet is in is on the main hall of the house. I want the grow op to be as inconspicuous as possible if someone accidentally walks in.

My room will accommodate 9 plants. There are two reasons for this. One is to keep the total plant count under the number allowed by my State. Not to be legal mind you but to keep from getting into really big trouble. The second is that since this is a 9 week strain I can harvest 3 plants every three weeks.

As for the light, I have been weighing the pros and cons of each. The 600 will create less heat, use less energy, has a higher lumen per watt ratio, and can be placed closer to the plants. All of these rational things should make the decision easy. However on 20 square feet a 1000w lamp gives me 50w per sqft, the 600 only gives me 30. From what I've read 50w per sqft and up is required for optimum cannabis growth.

I'm still torn on this, open to suggestions. HD what kind of yield can one reasonably expect with one 600w bulb? Anyone who has an opinion on this please feel free to post away.

Until next time...

 

[Closet Kine]

I finally got Photoshop re-installed on my computer so I can shoot my photos in RAW again. This gives me way better control over white balance than my camera's built in presets. Anyway I took some pictures just to test it out and play with the settings. I figured that since I took them I should post them.

I really like the last one. Everyone let me know what you think.

 

[LiveTour]

Ok looking good for sure! Make sure you get a fan blowing on them so you make your stems stronger. Keep up the good work!

 

[Aberration]

I think HawaiianDuck meant to get 2 x 600W instead of 1 x 1000W.

I'm also interested in what camera that is.

Your grow looks very promising. They will be too big so soon.

 

[Closet Kine]

Sorry guys I guess I wasn't very clear about the light situation. My grow space is going to be a 4.5 ft square which in my opinion would be lit more efficiently by one light than two. Running two light works great in Duck's room because it is 4 x 8. I plan on running a sealed room with a 5000btu window ac so the extra heat produced by the 1kw lamp will not be a huge issue but will get me closer to the optimum lumens per sqft.

Also there is an 18in oscillating fan in the room so the ladies(?) are fluttering quite nicely. The camera is a Nikon D50 DSLR. Thanks for checking in for the boring parts guys. Hopefully things will get a little more exciting in the near future.

 

[HawaiianDuck]

Hey guys thanks for the comments,


As for my light situation I have to tell you that it is something I debate with myself everyday. By the way I'm not planning to use the entire space for the flower room. I have a diagram that I made in MS Paint (don't laugh).

The actual flower room will be about 4.5 feet wide by 5.5 feet deep. However the first foot of the room will be space for the A/C, humidifier, etc so the actual grow area will be 4.5 foot square. I will build a partition wall out of 2X4's and panda plastic, the wall ac unit will be hung in this wall. The space between the two walls will house electrical components like the ballast and be used for storage. I want to keep the grow as stealthy as possible. The bedroom that this closet is in is on the main hall of the house. I want the grow op to be as inconspicuous as possible if someone accidentally walks in.

My room will accommodate 9 plants. There are two reasons for this. One is to keep the total plant count under the number allowed by my State. Not to be legal mind you but to keep from getting into really big trouble. The second is that since this is a 9 week strain I can harvest 3 plants every three weeks.

As for the light, I have been weighing the pros and cons of each. The 600 will create less heat, use less energy, has a higher lumen per watt ratio, and can be placed closer to the plants. All of these rational things should make the decision easy. However on 20 square feet a 1000w lamp gives me 50w per sqft, the 600 only gives me 30. From what I've read 50w per sqft and up is required for optimum cannabis growth.

I'm still torn on this, open to suggestions. HD what kind of yield can one reasonably expect with one 600w bulb? Anyone who has an opinion on this please feel free to post away.

Until next time...

Sorry guys I guess I wasn't very clear about the light situation. My grow space is going to be a 4.5 ft square which in my opinion would be lit more efficiently by one light than two. Running two light works great in Duck's room because it is 4 x 8. I plan on running a sealed room with a 5000btu window ac so the extra heat produced by the 1kw lamp will not be a huge issue but will get me closer to the optimum lumens per sqft.

Also there is an 18in oscillating fan in the room so the ladies(?) are fluttering quite nicely. The camera is a Nikon D50 DSLR. Thanks for checking in for the boring parts guys. Hopefully things will get a little more exciting in the near future.

Yeah, I totally get it now, sounds like you have it well thought out. I did have my dimensions in mind thinking you kinda had the same thing, but the one 1kw light for 4.5 footprint sounds right on, and 9 plants sounds good. I have a 9 (3x3) plant 3.5' footprint per 600w plan for my room, so you should enjoy a little more wiggle room for adjustments , grooming, and watering. I didn't laugh at the diagram, good to see what you have in mind for staggering the plants. You must be planning on some kind of individual plant stand scheme to put the smaller and med size plants up into the good light then? I have a ton of variety in my current grow under flower so I built a bunch of stands to adjust the plants vertically, check 'em out if you get a chance, its in my link, first grow autoflower strains.
As to yield for a 600w, I guess I am going with one standard I have read which is a good average yield is .5 grams per watt, and a very high yield would be closer to 1g per watt. I would sure be happy with .5 (x2 600w), but this is my first go, so we will see.
But yeah, things are lookin good there, Im staying tuned

 

[Closet Kine]

Day 7

Thanks to everyone for checking in. Duck you are right about the plant stands as I plan on building something very similar to what you have. I might even jack you designs entirely, hope you don't mind. Also hope all is well on the islands with all of this tsunami craziness going on.

Anyway I thought since I'm bored now would be a good time to explain the title of this thread. Anyone who has ever taken a 7th grade science class is familiar with the scientific method. You know the whole hypothesis, observation, conclusion deal. Well I'm not a scientist, (i did take botany as an elective in college, got a B-, it was at 8am) but I do believe that since I am a new grower with no practical experience that using logical methodology will help me develop my growing skills as quickly as possible. Also, since I plan on harvesting every three weeks I will have ample opportunities to test the many theories I will have.

So this is my plan, the first grow which is currently in progress is all about finding a mother plant. The twelve CM seedling I have now will be grown large enough to clone and put into flower. They will all receive the same care from me, feeding schedule, nutrients, container size will all be kept constant so that I can evaluate the plants on a even basis when deciding which plant to keep and which to cull. From this point on all plants in my garden will be genetically identical clones.

After I have found my mother plant is when the real work will begin. As mentioned in a previous post I plan on running 9 plants in my flower room, harvesting 3 plants every 3 weeks with this 9 week strain. Every run of three plants will have two control plants and one experimental plant which will test the hypothesis for that run. All other inputs will be kept constant to evaluate the effectiveness of the hypothetical change. Hypothesis' tested will include different soils and amendments, nutrients, and various training techniques. Once I feel I have my soil growing procedure optimized I will then test it against various hydro methods such as DWC and growing in coco. Throughout the testing I will update this thread at least weekly both with measurable metrics(plant height, final yield) along with more anecdotal evidence(color of leaves, size of roots, final potency and taste).

This was a long post but it had to be done. Any questions, comments, or critiques are always welcome.

 

[Closet Kine]

Day 7

I got all wrapped up in the last post and forgot to post the updated pictures. These are from today, Day 7 since the first seedling broke ground.

What do you guys think?

 

[Aberration]

They look good man. Make sure you have a fan blowing on them just enough to shake them up to strengthen the stems. Maybe I'm just used to clones as opposed to seed, but those stems look thin. They do look nice and vital though, and that is key in my (limited) experience. Everything else they can grow through.

I love your plan. Keep thinking like that and you can consider yourself a scientist regardless of your knowledge level, because you will soon know plenty. You described the kind of grow I would do if I had the time.

 

[COmmjDude]

Hey CK nice set up i really like your mcgiver style there is no need to buy any of that overpriced crap at the grow store the only thing i go to my growstore for is soil, nutes, and bug detterent oh and check out amazon.com for your lights they have fantasic deals most warrantied from top notch wholesalers but so far so good on those seeds buddy nice leaf growth on those seeds I'm def subscribedand maybe i missed it but what are the stats on your strain cuz i have'nt heard of it before+reps

 

[Closet Kine]

Thanks for the responses guys. CODude thanks for checking in. The strain is critical mass by Mr. Nice Seeds. Mr Nice isn't as well known as some of the other seed companies but the man behind it is a breeding legend. He was once the breeder for The Greenhouse Seed Company and created most of the famous Dutch strains from the 90's like white widow, white shark, and super silver haze. This strain in a heavy indica and is supposed to be one of the highest yielding indoor strains you can buy. The most common strain it is compared to is Serious Seeds Chronic, they produce about the same yield but from what I've read the Mass is better smoke. Thanks for the tip about the light deals I will look into it. If you like the DIY stuff check out the pictures you might like some of the additions I've made.

Aberration thanks for checking in. Your right about the stems, I played it safe in the beginning and had the light too high, this caused some serious stretching. I do have an oscillating fan in the room that has the girls(?) moving nicely.

Quick update,

Yesterday after posting my update I was fooling around in the garden when I noticed that some of the plants had roots growing out from under the bottoms of the cups. After further inspection I found that they all had visible roots at the drainage holes. Off to the nursery I went to get 1 gallon pots. They were transplanted into plain pro-mix bx and fed for the first time with a half strength (1tblsp per gallon) dose of big bloom which foxfarm recommends for seedlings.

Since I didn't have anything better to do I also went to the the local party supply store and picked up some of the metallic silver gift wrapping paper. From what I've read this stuff is in fact just really thin mylar and it only cost me 4 bucks. Even if not it's still way more reflective than the dirty brown wall it is covering up.

I also commandeered the shop light and computer fan from my incubator rig to give me more light and better circulation. The fan was rigged to blow on the bulb and ballast to give sort of a vented hood effect. It seems to work really well, before this if you touched the top of the light for more than a few seconds it would start to burn, now you can leave your had there indefinitely. Seems to have lowered temps at the plant level too. Humidity numbers are way up in the room since transplant, since there is so much more soil for water to evaporate from. RH is now running around 55% when before transplant I had to work to keep it above 40%.

Something I noticed while doing all this work was that 2 of the 12 plants had leaves that developed differently from the rest. On these two, the first set of serrated leaves were triple and the second has five leaves. The rest only have single leaves on the first set and three on the second. First signs of two different phenos perhaps.

Lastly, the room really stinks now after the first dose of BB. It's an organic fert so I figure this is normal. Can anyone confirm. That's all for now, I think I am incapable of short update posts. Let me know what you folks think... One more thing, these plants have been on 24 hour light since the beginning. I will reduce the light to 18/6 once the plants are at the 4th node. Hopefully this will induce preflowering, maybe...

This is how most of them look.

This is one of the two special ones.