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Thread: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

  1. #196
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    Re: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

    Originally Posted by growitsfun:
    I have a theory. If the flowers are sinks....wouldnt the flush dilute (the sink water) the nutes already inside of the flowers which would result in smoother smoke and flavor?

    I agree 100%, the ions will naturally diffuse across the concentration gradient.
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  2. #197
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    Re: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

    Quote Originally Posted by Grenman420 View Post
    Originally Posted by growitsfun:
    I have a theory. If the flowers are sinks....wouldnt the flush dilute (the sink water) the nutes already inside of the flowers which would result in smoother smoke and flavor?

    I agree 100%, the ions will naturally diffuse across the concentration gradient.
    Oh..... I never thought about the "concentration gradient" ...... you might be on to sumptin.... on your way to the medicine cabinet.

    Research needed....

    If that happened in a plant, I believe the plant would just go poof and blow up. In the flushing paradigm, water water water till the roots go poof...which actually might happen.

  3. #198
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    Re: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

    Quote Originally Posted by bobrown14 View Post
    Oh..... I never thought about the "concentration gradient" ...... you might be on to sumptin.... on your way to the medicine cabinet.

    Research needed....

    If that happened in a plant, I believe the plant would just go poof and blow up. In the flushing paradigm, water water water till the roots go poof...which actually might happen.
    After reading this thread, I pretty much gave up on "flushing", or leeching as I've been trying to get people to refer to it. We're talking about when you dump 3x the volume of the pot you're growing in through the soil in hopes it washes away excess nutrients right?

    Okay, so, after I read this thread I decided that there's so much more sense for why this is detrimental to a plant. Pretty much the only instance in which this could be beneficial is in case of a nitrogen overdose; and even then, that's because nitrates are the only thing you're going to wash away. You'll still be killing off your microbial environment.

    So for me I started thinking, "Okay, so how do I get rid of the need to wash salts out of my soil every 4 weeks?" and realized I need to use less salty fertilizers, and maybe eventually just start going total living-soil from the start. Anyway, long story short, I found a low-salt organic bottled fertilizer and I'm making the transition over, but to me it just doesn't make sense not to. If you're going to buy soil, don't sit there and kill the soil with salty fertilizers and over-irrigation.

    But what I'm still fuzzy on, is should I stop giving them nutrients 2 weeks to harvest to give them that "flush" where they use up all the stored nutrients? I mean, frankly, this doesn't make sense to me just based on the time frame. If I stop giving them nutrients, there's plenty left in the soil to last them for 2 weeks, so I'm not really cutting anything off anyway. Meanwhile, I've always kind of fed pretty close to the cut off date in the past, even using synthetic nutrients, and never noticed a real bad taste--but maybe that's because I use low dose feeds--I hardly ever get above 1000 ppm.

    So for my harvest in a couple of weeks I've just decided to keep giving it nutrients as usual. I don't expect it to effect the taste, but still have that urge to start giving it only plain water because of the whole 2 weeks flush tradition.
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  4. #199
    420 Member bobrown14's Avatar
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    Re: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFertilizer View Post
    After reading this thread, I pretty much gave up on "flushing", or leeching as I've been trying to get people to refer to it. We're talking about when you dump 3x the volume of the pot you're growing in through the soil in hopes it washes away excess nutrients right?

    Okay, so, after I read this thread I decided that there's so much more sense for why this is detrimental to a plant. Pretty much the only instance in which this could be beneficial is in case of a nitrogen overdose; and even then, that's because nitrates are the only thing you're going to wash away. You'll still be killing off your microbial environment.

    So for me I started thinking, "Okay, so how do I get rid of the need to wash salts out of my soil every 4 weeks?" and realized I need to use less salty fertilizers, and maybe eventually just start going total living-soil from the start. Anyway, long story short, I found a low-salt organic bottled fertilizer and I'm making the transition over, but to me it just doesn't make sense not to. If you're going to buy soil, don't sit there and kill the soil with salty fertilizers and over-irrigation.

    But what I'm still fuzzy on, is should I stop giving them nutrients 2 weeks to harvest to give them that "flush" where they use up all the stored nutrients? I mean, frankly, this doesn't make sense to me just based on the time frame. If I stop giving them nutrients, there's plenty left in the soil to last them for 2 weeks, so I'm not really cutting anything off anyway. Meanwhile, I've always kind of fed pretty close to the cut off date in the past, even using synthetic nutrients, and never noticed a real bad taste--but maybe that's because I use low dose feeds--I hardly ever get above 1000 ppm.

    So for my harvest in a couple of weeks I've just decided to keep giving it nutrients as usual. I don't expect it to effect the taste, but still have that urge to start giving it only plain water because of the whole 2 weeks flush tradition.
    Well you bring up good points. Yes "flushing" will wash out EXCESS nitrogen and EXCESS salts... not from the plants roots and not from the plant. The plant will ONLY uptake what it needs for growth and that's it. So if you put in extra nitrates, whatever the plant doesn't need and the soil cannot hold on to with CEC (cation exchange capacity), yes that extra will wash out into the water table. The water that you and I need to use for potable water, it goes into the local water shed in the form of nitrates... there's all sorts of reasons why we shouldn't do that but thats another topic.

    So we pollute the environment we live in the excess nitrates. That is a fact.
    While we are at it, we are also killing off the microbiology in the soil that helps our plants grow.
    So we put into the soil, nutrients in a form that can be directly absorbed by the plants roots bypassing the natural organic way plants uptake nutrients.

    This is where the taste comes in (or lack of taste). Plants that grow with man made soluble nitrates that feed the plant and skip the natural cycle do not taste as good as plants that are grown organically. It will be the same with cannabis.

    To experience what I'm talking about, go to your local food store and buy organically grown fruits or veggies; buy one of each, organic and one that is grown conventionally (with man made nitrates ect.). Eat them side by side... guarantee you can taste, smell and feel the difference with organically grown tasting much better.

    Ok now lets go back to the plants that are grown with chemicals. Since we skipped past the natural cycle of soil microbes breaking down the nutrients for the plant in the symbiotic relationship the plants have with soil microbes guess what else happens. The plants immune system is not as strong as it should be and now enter pests and disease. Now we need special chemicals to fight off pests and disease. Ok so now we need to spray plants with pesticides etc with compounds that were never tested to be smoked by humans.

    Getting back to the "flushing" ... the only accomplishment we achieve by this process is washing out excess nitrates that cannot be adsorbed by the soil or absorbed by the plants roots. No effect on plant other than probable damage to the root system.

    So why waste the water.. it would be far better to use less fertilizer so there's no excess build up and water the last 3 weeks of growth.

    I have a question. What do you folks do with soil after harvest that you grow in and use fertilizers on??

  5. #200
    420 Member TheFertilizer's Avatar
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    Re: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

    Quote Originally Posted by bobrown14 View Post
    Well you bring up good points. Yes "flushing" will wash out EXCESS nitrogen and EXCESS salts... not from the plants roots and not from the plant. The plant will ONLY uptake what it needs for growth and that's it. So if you put in extra nitrates, whatever the plant doesn't need and the soil cannot hold on to with CEC (cation exchange capacity), yes that extra will wash out into the water table. The water that you and I need to use for potable water, it goes into the local water shed in the form of nitrates... there's all sorts of reasons why we shouldn't do that but thats another topic.

    So we pollute the environment we live in the excess nitrates. That is a fact.
    While we are at it, we are also killing off the microbiology in the soil that helps our plants grow.
    So we put into the soil, nutrients in a form that can be directly absorbed by the plants roots bypassing the natural organic way plants uptake nutrients.

    This is where the taste comes in (or lack of taste). Plants that grow with man made soluble nitrates that feed the plant and skip the natural cycle do not taste as good as plants that are grown organically. It will be the same with cannabis.

    To experience what I'm talking about, go to your local food store and buy organically grown fruits or veggies; buy one of each, organic and one that is grown conventionally (with man made nitrates ect.). Eat them side by side... guarantee you can taste, smell and feel the difference with organically grown tasting much better.

    Ok now lets go back to the plants that are grown with chemicals. Since we skipped past the natural cycle of soil microbes breaking down the nutrients for the plant in the symbiotic relationship the plants have with soil microbes guess what else happens. The plants immune system is not as strong as it should be and now enter pests and disease. Now we need special chemicals to fight off pests and disease. Ok so now we need to spray plants with pesticides etc with compounds that were never tested to be smoked by humans.

    Getting back to the "flushing" ... the only accomplishment we achieve by this process is washing out excess nitrates that cannot be adsorbed by the soil or absorbed by the plants roots. No effect on plant other than probable damage to the root system.

    So why waste the water.. it would be far better to use less fertilizer so there's no excess build up and water the last 3 weeks of growth.

    I have a question. What do you folks do with soil after harvest that you grow in and use fertilizers on??
    That's what I tried, but what I found is that with some super salty synthetic nutrients, the salts build up so quickly even when using low dosages that it seems almost like a requirement to flush them out. I think that's part of the problem with the way people follow hydroponic growing techniques in soil that barely only make sense for soil-less.

    But I also found the idea of amending my own natural soil and letting it cook up and all that to be less than accessible, and less "cheap" than what a lot of people espousing that method would have led me to believe... At least when it comes to upfront investment. It ain't exactly cheap sourcing ingredients from here, there, and often times paying exorbitant shipping costs, then finding a large container to mix in, the time to let a good mix decompose, etc. and so on. I feel like there's good reason people want to stick with bottled nutrients. That's why I've been trying to at least meet somewhere in the middle and use EarthJuice's liquid lineup. I'm not patting myself on the back for any ecological friendliness achieved ( if there's any at all ) through that choice, but as a selfish gardener I think it makes sense for my own well-being... I'm not fooled into believing they're completely organic, but they're pretty far from synthetic.

    As for the soil, I tried reusing mine a lot, but on about the 3rd recycle I had a lot of major problems with a crop. I'm not sure if there may have been some kind of pathogen introduced, or maybe just the soil went bad from all the copious amounts of flushing in my futile pursuit to get the saltiness of my old nutrients out. So eventually it ended up in a trash bag in the dumpster.
    My First Journal: 12/12 From Seed Blackberry Kush, Girl Scout Cookies and Frankenberry -- Completed
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    I grow with:
    400 Watt HPS Flower 4x4 Tent
    200 Watt 8 Tube T5 Veg/Breeding 4x4 Tent
    Fox Farms Happy Frog Soil
    EarthJuice Big 5 Lineup + OilyCann and Bloomin Master
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  6. #201
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    Re: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

    Quote Originally Posted by bobrown14 View Post
    Well you bring up good points. Yes "flushing" will wash out EXCESS nitrogen and EXCESS salts... not from the plants roots and not from the plant. The plant will ONLY uptake what it needs for growth and that's it. So if you put in extra nitrates, whatever the plant doesn't need and the soil cannot hold on to with CEC (cation exchange capacity), yes that extra will wash out into the water table. The water that you and I need to use for potable water, it goes into the local water shed in the form of nitrates... there's all sorts of reasons why we shouldn't do that but thats another topic.

    So we pollute the environment we live in the excess nitrates. That is a fact.
    While we are at it, we are also killing off the microbiology in the soil that helps our plants grow.
    So we put into the soil, nutrients in a form that can be directly absorbed by the plants roots bypassing the natural organic way plants uptake nutrients.

    This is where the taste comes in (or lack of taste). Plants that grow with man made soluble nitrates that feed the plant and skip the natural cycle do not taste as good as plants that are grown organically. It will be the same with cannabis.

    To experience what I'm talking about, go to your local food store and buy organically grown fruits or veggies; buy one of each, organic and one that is grown conventionally (with man made nitrates ect.). Eat them side by side... guarantee you can taste, smell and feel the difference with organically grown tasting much better.

    Ok now lets go back to the plants that are grown with chemicals. Since we skipped past the natural cycle of soil microbes breaking down the nutrients for the plant in the symbiotic relationship the plants have with soil microbes guess what else happens. The plants immune system is not as strong as it should be and now enter pests and disease. Now we need special chemicals to fight off pests and disease. Ok so now we need to spray plants with pesticides etc with compounds that were never tested to be smoked by humans.

    Getting back to the "flushing" ... the only accomplishment we achieve by this process is washing out excess nitrates that cannot be adsorbed by the soil or absorbed by the plants roots. No effect on plant other than probable damage to the root system.

    So why waste the water.. it would be far better to use less fertilizer so there's no excess build up and water the last 3 weeks of growth.

    I have a question. What do you folks do with soil after harvest that you grow in and use fertilizers on??
    Im throwing it away. Soil is cheap

  7. #202
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    Re: Flushing/Leaching and Final Bud Swell

    I understand flushing as not only to remove excess nitrogen and salt build up (although this is correct) but also to begin to break down the chlorophyll and remove that grassy smell from the final product, resulting a better taste and better burn. I am currently experimenting with this... I shall keep y'all updated with what I find.

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