Heat issues 3x3 with LED and exhaust

[mrweedco]

Hi guys,

Second post here so please excuse me if I forget anything!

I have a 3x3 gorilla grow tent with 5 ladies currently in hydro in 5 buckets. In the near future I will only have 4 because of space. I used to run a 125Watt bulb and just changed to a new LED light.

Details:

Currently in veg 1 month
4 Inch hurricane fan with active air speed controller
Phresh carbon filter 4x12 inch
Phresh 4 inch silencer
3 Air pumps
2 small intake computer fans with a small tube that fits though the tents side panels.
1 8 inch fan for circulation
1 small fan for circulation
Currently I my temps are 79-82F at night with the lights on. The temp outside the tent is 72-75F

---

When I had the 125 Watt light the temp was around 75F now that I have the LED light, the temp has increased and I am having a hard time keeping it low again.

Obviously the LED light is emitting more heat, I raised it as close as possible to the carbon filter but the temps remain. I tried putting the exhaust fan on fast speed but nothing really changes.

I guess my question is based on the pictures below what do you guys suggest I do?

pics:

 

[TanR]

Hi mrweedco.

Welcome to 420 Magazine and community that gathers here.

Is the higher temp in the tent causing you difficulty in keeping the water temps down? I'm not experienced in anything hydro related, so are those deep water culture (DWC) rigs in which your growing?

I ask because the tent temps aren't reason for concern, unless it's adversely effecting water temps and leaving you with concern about root rot or disease. I've read some hydro journals and it seems they are constantly fighting to keep the water more in the 65 or even below range.

Be well and happy growing!

 

[Major PITA]

If you are pulling in room air, can you use outside (cold) air? If you pull in 72 degree air, it isn't going to do much cooling for you.
What size is your exhaust fan? If I'm seeing things right, that little intake fan could actually be restricting air more than helping. I'd get rid of it. I'd keep the light where it is best for the plants. Moving it up isn't going to cool the tent much - if any.

 

[mrweedco]

Hi mrweedco.

Welcome to 420 Magazine and community that gathers here.

Is the higher temp in the tent causing you difficulty in keeping the water temps down? I'm not experienced in anything hydro related, so are those deep water culture (DWC) rigs in which your growing?

I ask because the tent temps aren't reason for concern, unless it's adversely effecting water temps and leaving you with concern about root rot or disease. I've read some hydro journals and it seems they are constantly fighting to keep the water more in the 65 or even below range.

Be well and happy growing!

Hello I'm actually not sure about the water temps. I would need to purchase something to see that. Any recommendations?

I did have a little case of root rot on Feb 6th I changed to regular PH water, added cannazym on Feb 7th, and it help alot, that was because I had 2 plants in a small container and both those plants got the rot!

However yesterday we lost power for over 18 hours! once I check on them again it smelled bad and it looked like a bit of rot. I changed the water and added cannazym again. This was all when I had the 125Watt light.

Thanks for the input!

 

[mrweedco]

If you are pulling in room air, can you use outside (cold) air? If you pull in 72 degree air, it isn't going to do much cooling for you.
What size is your exhaust fan? If I'm seeing things right, that little intake fan could actually be restricting air more than helping. I'd get rid of it. I'd keep the light where it is best for the plants. Moving it up isn't going to cool the tent much - if any.

Its pretty hot down here so 72 - 75 are the temps outside.

Thanks for the reply

Im actually not sure what size it is, it would be the same size as a desktop computer fan. I have 2 of these pushing the 72 air into the tent.

My exhaust is 4 inch hurricane inline fan with a phresh 4 x 1 inch + a phresh silencer.

 

[Major PITA]

Its pretty hot down here so 72 - 75 are the temps outside.

Thanks for the reply

Im actually not sure what size it is, it would be the same size as a desktop computer fan. I have 2 of these pushing the 72 air into the tent.

My exhaust is 4 inch hurricane inline fan with a phresh 4 x 1 inch + a phresh silencer.

Your exhaust fan should be up to the task in that small of a tent. Personally, I'd lose the intake fan, but it probably doesn't make any difference. The real problem is your intake air temp. If you pull in 75 degree air, there isn't much cooling available unless you add some A/C. Run your exhaust full speed to move as much 75 degree air as possible. Above the LED it will be warmer, but hopefully you can get the canopy temperature down to 80 or below. I don't do hydro but if your water isn't chilled, you may be fighting problems from your water being too warm, as well.

 

[mrweedco]

Your exhaust fan should be up to the task in that small of a tent. Personally, I'd lose the intake fan, but it probably doesn't make any difference. The real problem is your intake air temp. If you pull in 75 degree air, there isn't much cooling available unless you add some A/C. Run your exhaust full speed to move as much 75 degree air as possible. Above the LED it will be warmer, but hopefully you can get the canopy temperature down to 80 or below. I don't do hydro but if your water isn't chilled, you may be fighting problems from your water being too warm, as well.

Ok Will take out 1 intake fan see if that helps, then I will take out the second fan.

I will also get a water themostat to see what temps my plats are at.

I will report on this later today.

Thanks for the input!

 

[TanR]

Thanks for the feedback mrweedco.

I may have the opportunity to learn something here; but am I to understand since your water temps weren't your primary concern, it is/was the temperature in the tent? Is it your understanding that 79-82 might be less than ideal or unacceptable? If so, I wonder if you might point me in direction of where the information came from.

Thanks!

 

[mrweedco]

Ok Will take out 1 intake fan see if that helps, then I will take out the second fan.

I will also get a water themostat to see what temps my plats are at.

I will report on this later today.

Thanks for the input!

I just checked my girls and walked into terrible news the tent smelled bad! Again I looked at the roots and they appear to be slimy and I believe they all have root rot.

I check my water temps and inside that tent they are all 80F, the Tent temp with the light off was at 77F with the light on (and both intake fans still there) the tent is at 82F the temp where the intake fan is coming from is 78F~79F.

I think the rot is coming from the temps in my 5 gallon buckets. I changed the water and added nutrients 24 hours ago and the problem is back.

Pics:

 

[Major PITA]

Yep. Again - I don't do hydro and for exactly this reason. W/o a chiller, I am not able to keep my water temp down. I'm pretty sure you are in the same boat.

 

[mrweedco]

So I cleaned all the buckets thoroughly and added ph water, some with cannazym some with out ( did not have enough), and the root rot is not back after 48 hours. I also added around 2.5 gallons of water, I was adding around 3.5 - 4 Gallons since I the plants had just started showing roots.

24 hours ago, I took out the LED which is causing the 2-4F increase. I now have a small 125Watt cfl and temps are at 75-79F.

Water temps are now between 77.6F - 78.5F

I'm debating what to do, one of the options is adding the CO2 bucket since it seems CO2 helps the plants with high heat.

I did some research and it seems some products help the plants absorb the nutrients better by adding bacteria and other nutrients that will help with high water temps and high air temps.

I found online that Cannazym ( I have been using since first root rot) helps the roots with enzymes and that Armor Si helps plants cope with stress and heat so I figure I should buy this additive on Monday at my local store and restock on Cannazym.

For now at least my plants are showing sign of new growth and new roots.

Ill plug in my KIND LED L600 once I have those 2 additives and see how it helps with the heat.

Lastly Ive seen a few misters with timers that can probably reduce the temp a little. Ill need to check those also!

Cheers,

 

[mrweedco]

Ok so plants still have no root rot and they are still showing signs of recovery with new white roots.

I will probably be getting a portable AC and hooking it up to this tent and another tent directly with 4 inch ducting. The idea is to put the portable AC on a timer and to release AC every hour or so. Im not sure that is possible though ! I hope so.

In the mean time I bought a styrofoam cooler and converted it to a portable AC I saw on youtube!

Something like this:

My temps with the CFL light on are at 73F ! So far the ICE has not melted completely ater 10 hours, I calculate it will last around 12 hours each time. This is great while I get my portable AC, it will also help me save save a few bucks if I wanted to skip the AC. However for me this is not a permanent solution it will be a pain to do this every day!

Here is my rig LOL

 

[Mcjoint]

Hey Mrweedco, I am not an experienced grower by any means but I understand heat transfer a little bit. Here are a few tips to help you out. First try to insulate your buckets, they sell bubble wrap insulation for coolers you can try to use that Or you could try to find some black foam insulation they use for ac lines. By insulating your buckets it will help keep heat out of your buckets. Another thing you can't do is a frozen bottle or two in your buckets, they won't last for ever but it might help a little. If it possible it would ideal to convert into a rdwc and put an electric cooler chiller in the res. There are all type of way to add a chiller to your system, I would do some research on that. If your are about to get your water Temps down you should be fine. Another option would be to add a small ac to the inlet of your grow tent. A water chiller would be more efficient in my opinion but if not an AC would work. You could do the cooler filled with in and fan trick if you can't put a real ac but this would likely increase your humidity. A better version of this would be to get some sort or water core and put it in the intake of your grow area. Connect the inlet of the watercore to a water pump. Have the pump, push ice cold water into the water core from a res out side of the grow space( b. C it is cooler), then just keep recirculating cold water into the water core. This will be a check ac, however you need be aware the water core will most likely condensate so make sure you make some type of drip pan to catch the condensation. I hope this helps you.

 

[Mcjoint]

Also if you decide to use the water core trick, you will need to put a push/pull fan on the core it self. Also use an in line water pump as a submerge able pump will heat up your faster.

 

[mrweedco]

Hey Mrweedco, I am not an experienced grower by any means but I understand heat transfer a little bit. Here are a few tips to help you out. First try to insulate your buckets, they sell bubble wrap insulation for coolers you can try to use that Or you could try to find some black foam insulation they use for ac lines. By insulating your buckets it will help keep heat out of your buckets. Another thing you can't do is a frozen bottle or two in your buckets, they won't last for ever but it might help a little. If it possible it would ideal to convert into a rdwc and put an electric cooler chiller in the res. There are all type of way to add a chiller to your system, I would do some research on that. If your are about to get your water Temps down you should be fine. Another option would be to add a small ac to the inlet of your grow tent. A water chiller would be more efficient in my opinion but if not an AC would work. You could do the cooler filled with in and fan trick if you can't put a real ac but this would likely increase your humidity. A better version of this would be to get some sort or water core and put it in the intake of your grow area. Connect the inlet of the watercore to a water pump. Have the pump, push ice cold water into the water core from a res out side of the grow space( b. C it is cooler), then just keep recirculating cold water into the water core. This will be a check ac, however you need be aware the water core will most likely condensate so make sure you make some type of drip pan to catch the condensation. I hope this helps you.

Hello MCjoint,

Thank you for you time in explaining.

I will try to insulate the buckets, or at least try with 1 buck to see if that works. Im also going to see if I can take the air pumps out of the tent, hopefully this will help to. Right now the pumps are bringing in hot air.

I can get my hands on a used portable 12000 btu AC. Im thinking I can convert the cold air out take into 2 4 inch ducts. each duct to one tent.

However my concern here is the timer on the AC, I sure hope I can program it to turn off and on each hour or X amount of time.

A chiller will be my last option since I would need to construct the the RDWC.

Again thank you for the feedback!

Cheers,

 

[Mcjoint]

Yes moving the air pump out of the grow room will definitely help alot, as you will pumping cooler air into the buckets. 12k btu is more than enough. If you can get ahold of your self of orange Gatorade coolers that would be best. They are really well insulate, you would be able to throw some frozen water bottles in there and they would last a while.

 

[mrweedco]

Quick update

I put Armor Si and so that it helps the plants with the high temps. Putting ice in the cooler daily is a bitch but it has maintained the temps around 73-77F but when the ice melts the temps go up to 84F. However root rot seems to be gone and roots seem to be developing new white roots!

Im not sure if its the armo si or the temp dropping in the tent but when I change the nutes this week I will take the cool AC out and see if the root rot returns with Armo si.

I have not been able to take the pumps of the tent yet but i will do that on they day I change the nutes. ( maybe tonight or tomorrow)

I looked around for the insulation of the buckets and they sell that stuff in 10 meters for $50, I have to check one more store once purchased I will put it around each bucket.

So next steps:

1- take air pumps out
2- Change nutes and add armo si +
3- Add bucket insulation bubble foam
3- Take out cool air from styrofoam DIY AC

Measure temps and monitor root rot.

If no root rot comes back I will put my LED back in and monitor temps and root rot. If all goes well here then im safe If not then I may need to keep the DIY cooler running !! Which I DO NO WANT TO DO.

The portable AC is still an option but my concern here is power and automating the on off so I am a bit skeptical on using it.

cheers

 

[Mcjoint]

just google Reflectix BP24010, they have it on amazon for like 12 bucks for a 24" x 10' roll. also there is something called a peltier device can make water cooler and cheap acs with them and buch of other neat stuff with them, google peltier. one more tip, if put a fan at the same level as your buckets, that will also help keep the temp down on the water but it will raise the humidity.

 

[mrweedco]

just google Reflectix BP24010, they have it on amazon for like 12 bucks for a 24" x 10' roll. also there is something called a peltier device can make water cooler and cheap acs with them and buch of other neat stuff with them, google peltier. one more tip, if put a fan at the same level as your buckets, that will also help keep the temp down on the water but it will raise the humidity.

Ok so I bought the stuff and put in around all my buckets. I have not pretty much done everything I can without investing on a chiller or peltier or redoing everything to RDWC..

Roots are still looking good and plants are showing signs of growth.

I just:

- turned off and took out DIY AC
- Took out intake fan and opened 2 side vents
- Took our air pumps and placed them out side the tent where they get fresh air
- Changed nutes on all 5 ladies and added Armo si and Sensisym for root and to help plants with high heat.
- Put my Kind LED L600 back in.

* My ph meter died on me so I need to purchase a new one tomorrow. SHIT

The ten temp is around 82F and the water temp around 76.1F it has been on for 1 hour.

Im still skeptical on the temps, but I will be monitoring each hour or so..

Some pics on whiter roots and tent after the changes mentioned above.

 

[Mcjoint]

Looking alot better, the only other option you have to help keep the temp down would be frozen water bottles.