Nutrients - I am not trying to start an argument - But I know people will differ

Is this guy a douche?

  • No, he is right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • He is right but a douchebag

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • He doesn't know what he's talking about

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Maybe he's confused and/or delusional, having some good and bad things

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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Bacondoggy

New Member
Okay. My INTENT here is to explain that I am planning on going organic, but then was considering some cheaper forts from lowes home depot, as I do not have barely any money. I feel like I'm at the stage that the more research I do, the more confused I can get and have contradicting things from different people. Everyone has their own opinions and I try to respect them. However, when someone says someone is wrong and blah blah blah, only to advertize something they sell, well, that pisses me off. Anyway, I have everything organic so far and have worm casings and fish emulsion. I am trying g to think of what to add for potash (for root structure) and what an effective "organic" fert that is cheap for bloom. I am in the sprout stage so none of this is important as far as time frame goes. I just don't want to get the wrong stuff. And I don't want to get into miracle grow bc some people like it, others hate it, but I do believe there is some truth in some nutes being SIMILAR to MG, but have a lot leaf on the bottle and they sell it for 10 times the amount... but since I am equally ignorant to all products, I'm not sure which way to go.

My main concern is I have heard people say that chemicals will destroy organics and the micronutrients. I think "chemical" is incredibly vauge, and doesn't really say or tell you what can or can't be used in conjunction with organic grows where you are concerned with the healthy microbes and that they do not get destroyed.
The following is a "copy/paste" from another site, from a guy who I personally think is a douchebag. I almost wanted to email him and tell him that but there is no good in that. I have omitted his email bc while he posted it on the other site, I do not feel comfortable giving out other people's info. I believe the guy has SOME valid points and may know a little, but I don't think he is correct in everything he says. Some I guess I agree with, some I disagree and some have raised questions (like bat guano, bone meal and bloodmeal are bad?)

I'm not too sure about urine (I don't see anything wrong with it if you dilute it to whatever the proper level is and make sure it doesn't sit around so ammonia does not build up), because urine is sterile... but he was also trying to promote his dumbass "buy my fertilizer, it took me years to make" crap, which is what really pissed me off. I guess i am looking to this community to chime in and let me know if what he is saying is true how much of it or what. It's almost like he has just enough info to b.s. his way to having people agree with him. Like I said, some may be right... I dunno. SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO:

I can't believe that someone would actually suggest Miricle Grow and human urine! I have a small organic fertilizer company in So. California and spent years developing truely organic fertilizers for cannabis (both dry and liquid) from mealworm castings. My target market is home growers who care about their health and only want to ingest organically grown mj. Most, if not all fertilizer blends that are offered for cannabis contain chemical elements and/or even toxins. I will name a few - bat guano, blood meal and bone meal. While they are identified by the FDA as "organic" in reality that can really put a hurt on you: both bone and blood meal these days come from slaughterhouses and are loaded with antibiotics, growth hormones and steroids. Even human "biosolids" from sewer treatment plants are considered "organic" by the FDA, and believe it or not, many commercial farmers in this country use it regardless of the toxin levels it may contain! Why? ITS CHEAP TO BUY and does grow well - if you don't mind polluting your body. Bat guano has been used in cannabis fertilization since the 60's . . . there are so many associated diseases with bat guano I would bever touch it much less use it on anything I plan to actually ingest. By the way . . .remember Mad Cow disease a few years back? BONE MEAL was the cause! Even ORGANIC GARDENING MAGAZINE strongly advises gardeners not to use blood meal, bone meal or bat guano. It's simply not worth the risk!
Mealworm castings however, are not a blend and are pure as the driven snow. mealworms are fed wheat bran and raw carrots . . . and is not really a worm at all but the larva stage of the darkwing beetle. Not only does it have a natural NPK of 4-3-2 it also has 15 micronutrients to feed the soil and the plants.
I have developed a FOLIAR SPRAY from mealworm castings (not a tea) and have a patent for this unique process. The point is using a foliar spray on the leaves and buds and the dry fertilizer for the roots you not only get healthy growth but a lot of it!
People like Johnny should visit my site and use the Facebook link to find out the good, the bad and the ugly things you can do to yourself using harmful fertilizer. I can be emailed there at



***IF you want to look for this guy that's on you lol, but I just want to know what I can eventually put in my soil without worrying about it destroying the bacterial growth I am trying to achieve. I have worm casings and fish emulsion - if you were me, and had very limited funds, what else would you get? What is superthrive? I hear good things about it and that it's cheap and readily available?
 
Lol I don't think anyone is gong to touch this one with a ten foot pole

All I will say is check out DocBud and his Hi-Brix threads. I would rather you seek information than just more claims and anecdotes. This is one of those things where it's really going to come down to what you think and what risks you're willing to take.

Why are you interested in organic? Just curious, most people I know involved with organic growing, are typically of the "money is no object" mindset. I like probiotics because of the growth benefits, but I am not concerned with the claimed health benefits or risks associated with organic and chemical nutrients respectively.
 
I don't mind using non organic things, I just don't want said product to destroy all the healthy bacteria I am trying to promote in the soil. I don't know what to or not to use in conjuction with what I have. What I should get or avoid...
 
Worm castings should go into the soil which should get 8 to 12 weeks of cooking time. Fish emulsion is really good for late veg and all through flowering if it doesn't go more than 3% of potassium. For early and middle veg you can decide not to fertilize at all... cause it's not the most important thing if you want to get good weed, and if you're desperate for organic nitrogen you can really use urine. Chemically it's better than most commercial ferts, and if you dilute it you can use it without any fear :tokin::tommy:
 
Worm castings should go into the soil which should get 8 to 12 weeks of cooking time. Fish emulsion is really good for late veg and all through flowering if it doesn't go more than 3% of potassium. For early and middle veg you can decide not to fertilize at all... cause it's not the most important thing if you want to get good weed, and if you're desperate for organic nitrogen you can really use urine. Chemically it's better than most commercial ferts, and if you dilute it you can use it without any fear :tokin::tommy:
While I am all organic now, I don't mind using chemicals ID they will have no negative impact on my micronutrients / good bacteria. This is what I'm trying to find out and failing: which chemicals that I can get that are cheap, will be most of what I need from now on, and won't kill or hurt the good bacteria
 
It's all a matter of proportions. If you use them carefully you can even benefit, but if you cross the line you're gonna spoil all the good work done by microbiota. What chems do you have in mind?
 
It's all a matter of proportions. If you use them carefully you can even benefit, but if you cross the line you're gonna spoil all the good work done by microbiota. What chems do you have in mind?
No clue this is my first time and don't know what to get. I don't know if I have a male or female (only 1 plant) and where how I'm going to grow it lol. I made a garden and have soil left over (stupid organic cheap crap had gnat large and who knows what else in it). I but a little cow manure, peat, perlite, all in the organic soil and I have earthworm casings and fish emulsion. Was considering getting something called superthrive but I dunno what that even is lol. I just want to give it whatever I can to help it veg and root right now... but I am in no hurry to fertilize it as it's only like a week or so old... any recommendations would be great though!!


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For one plant you're overthinking things a little bit, just keep on growing and see what happens.
 
The term "organic" means nothing to me. It is a designation a company pays for. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for responsible farming, but many organic farms are just factory farms that have learned the rules and how to work the system. If you saw their farming practices you'd never think of them as being healthy for you or the environment.

As for the plants themselves, by the time ANY nutrient is broken down into the simple molecules and ions a plant can absorb, they are chemically identical to any other source. Having said all that, I use amendments and nute's typically found in "organic" grows.
 
Liquid karma.
As soon as you put tap water in the mix some people will say your no longer organic.
Alaska fish fertalizer for veg.
When should I start? How much Alaskan fish emulsion should I put in a gallon if I use it as a foliage spray? I figure I will put that in with rooting hormone I got for free plus shipping from Sierra natural science - those guys are awesome and really helped me out! I just need to figure out what all to start giving the sprout now it's an actual plant... she's growin!!
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BaconDoggy: keep it simple and cheap. it sounds like you have some good ideas as to what kind of nutes you want to use. Use them! Cannibus is a WEED. Not a high-bred Rose!

Your plants will tell you what works for them. You don't need the expensive stuff. Just read the labels or make your own.

BTW, your baby is beautiful!
 
BaconDoggy: keep it simple and cheap. it sounds like you have some good ideas as to what kind of nutes you want to use. Use them! Cannibus is a WEED. Not a high-bred Rose!

Your plants will tell you what works for them. You don't need the expensive stuff. Just read the labels or make your own.

BTW, your baby is beautiful!


Thanks! Yeah it's my first one, I just hope it's a girl! Still haven't decided if I will grow inside or take it somewhere and plant it. Just found out about about humeric acids. I also look like kelp would be a good idea I am starting to get confused bc they have tons of crap u can buy from all different sites, I have this awesome tester product from Sierra natural science that will save me this grow, but otherwise I have no idea which place to get what from. When you do your own nutrients, you can make the plant deficient in something easier I would think then a already mixed product with most of what you need. I don't want to go overboard and also waste my money on things I don't need!
 
My usual recommendation: Read the label and cut the recommended amount in half.
For young seedlings I reduce it to 1/4.
 
My usual recommendation: Read the label and cut the recommended amount in half.
For young seedlings I reduce it to 1/4.
How young?
I always heard to go to 1/2 strength nutes for young plants, but not 1/4. Best to err on the side of caution, and if you do overwater, your not overfeeding at least! I have a blend I want to try and it has humic acid which I am so happy bc I have clorimime and that's one of the few safe ways to get rid of the stupid crap. So I wanted to make a "tea" / foliar spray (same thing right?) , but I don't know what the best ratio to use would be... sns604a (1/4 Oz/ gal - spray leaves every 3-5 days during veg) I have down, but what about ewc and the fish fert? I heard 3 tbsp a gal for the fish fert so to be safe 1 tbsp? Or was 3 tbsp normal or too much? Thanks for any help! Bc I never made a tea or mix
 
How young?
I always heard to go to 1/2 strength nutes for young plants, but not 1/4. Best to err on the side of caution, and if you do overwater, your not overfeeding at least! I have a blend I want to try and it has humic acid which I am so happy bc I have clorimime and that's one of the few safe ways to get rid of the stupid crap. So I wanted to make a "tea" / foliar spray (same thing right?) , but I don't know what the best ratio to use would be... sns604a (1/4 Oz/ gal - spray leaves every 3-5 days during veg) I have down, but what about ewc and the fish fert? I heard 3 tbsp a gal for the fish fert so to be safe 1 tbsp? Or was 3 tbsp normal or too much? Thanks for any help! Bc I never made a tea or mix

Teas and foliars are not exactly the same. In most cases a foliar is much weaker than a feeding given to the soil. Some things that work well when fed to the roots can burn leaves (phototoxicity). Also, buildup over time can clog the leave's stomata.

When I read EWC and tea, I think of the plant's roots and a brew full of living organisms. That is a big part of the benefit. If used as a foliar, I have to assume the beneficial bacteria and fungi will be long dead in a matter of hours (minutes?) since they like dark moist, semi-anaerobic soil - not 80 degree air and direct light. They can't help break down nutrients on the leaves like they do in soil. I've used fishy fert's as foliars and salt-based supplements, but not teas.

I also view foliars as a supplemental feeding method only. I wouldn't rely on it for more than about 10% of what the plant needs. To me, it is like a vitamin. If you eat well and are healthy, it might provide a little extra benefit or insurance. But if you are starving, you aren't going to get healthy on vitamin supplements alone.

I consider a young plant in its seedling phase until about the fifth node and/or five-bladed leaves are present. That's just my definition and it is when I switch to stronger nute' concentrations. My 1/4 or 1/2 strength is my general rule. It really depends on the nutrients and your experience using them. In my experience, "full strength" is almost always too much.

Take all this with a grain of salt since I'm not big on foliars and have never tried a tea as one. This is mostly conjecture. I have an on-going battle with spider mites and have found foliar residue not only masks the mites themselves, but also the damage they do early on. As a result, most of my spraying these days is in an effort to get rid of them.
 
Teas and foliars are not exactly the same. In most cases a foliar is much weaker than a feeding given to the soil. Some things that work well when fed to the roots can burn leaves (phototoxicity). Also, buildup over time can clog the leave's stomata.

When I read EWC and tea, I think of the plant's roots and a brew full of living organisms. That is a big part of the benefit. If used as a foliar, I have to assume the beneficial bacteria and fungi will be long dead in a matter of hours (minutes?) since they like dark moist, semi-anaerobic soil - not 80 degree air and direct light. They can't help break down nutrients on the leaves like they do in soil. I've used fishy fert's as foliars and salt-based supplements, but not teas.

I also view foliars as a supplemental feeding method only. I wouldn't rely on it for more than about 10% of what the plant needs. To me, it is like a vitamin. If you eat well and are healthy, it might provide a little extra benefit or insurance. But if you are starving, you aren't going to get healthy on vitamin supplements alone.

I consider a young plant in its seedling phase until about the fifth node and/or five-bladed leaves are present. That's just my definition and it is when I switch to stronger nute' concentrations. My 1/4 or 1/2 strength is my general rule. It really depends on the nutrients and your experience using them. In my experience, "full strength" is almost always too much.

Take all this with a grain of salt since I'm not big on foliars and have never tried a tea as one. This is mostly conjecture. I have an on-going battle with spider mites and have found foliar residue not only masks the mites themselves, but also the damage they do early on. As a result, most of my spraying these days is in an effort to get rid of them.
Yeah I looked at foliar spray the same way. I am trying to figure out which to use for what and when, I was considering any supplements can be used foliar and normal feeding minus the ewc I will keep that off the leaves. I ordered some floralicious plus and didn't want to overdue things with too many nutes (floralicious plus and the sns both seem similar and I don't want to kill the plant by giving it too many things. I haven't given it anything yet. The next few days I will try the sns veg and root stimulant for the first time and I can use the spray and feed all at once (same strength for foliar and watering), half strength at most. Thanks for the heads up with ewc and applying it to just the roots! Trying to soak up all the info like a sponge!
 
Teas and foliars are not exactly the same. In most cases a foliar is much weaker than a feeding given to the soil. Some things that work well when fed to the roots can burn leaves (phototoxicity). Also, buildup over time can clog the leave's stomata.

When I read EWC and tea, I think of the plant's roots and a brew full of living organisms. That is a big part of the benefit. If used as a foliar, I have to assume the beneficial bacteria and fungi will be long dead in a matter of hours (minutes?) since they like dark moist, semi-anaerobic soil - not 80 degree air and direct light. They can't help break down nutrients on the leaves like they do in soil. I've used fishy fert's as foliars and salt-based supplements, but not teas.

I also view foliars as a supplemental feeding method only. I wouldn't rely on it for more than about 10% of what the plant needs. To me, it is like a vitamin. If you eat well and are healthy, it might provide a little extra benefit or insurance. But if you are starving, you aren't going to get healthy on vitamin supplements alone.

I consider a young plant in its seedling phase until about the fifth node and/or five-bladed leaves are present. That's just my definition and it is when I switch to stronger nute' concentrations. My 1/4 or 1/2 strength is my general rule. It really depends on the nutrients and your experience using them. In my experience, "full strength" is almost always too much.

Take all this with a grain of salt since I'm not big on foliars and have never tried a tea as one. This is mostly conjecture. I have an on-going battle with spider mites and have found foliar residue not only masks the mites themselves, but also the damage they do early on. As a result, most of my spraying these days is in an effort to get rid of them.
This says to foliar spray tea's work good with foliar spray - good read, what do you think? The Secrets of Foliar Spraying
 
Some people have luck with foliar sprays; others do not. If you spray during lights on, the droplets will act as lenses and burn the leaves. It is all too easy to get the spray too strong, and you can get leaf burn that way, too.

But, if you have success, it does work!
 
This says to foliar spray tea's work good with foliar spray - good read, what do you think? The Secrets of Foliar Spraying

Dunno - still skeptical.
I agree with a lot of the article but there is plenty that doesn't sound right to me and there is no evidence or data to back up the claims made.

They mention teas are brewed and have a very limited shelf life. This is while they are being bubbled in near ideal conditions. No mention is made of what happens to the bacteria when it is blasted by the sun and is bone dry. "You envelope the plant with living organisms". True, but for how long? Seconds?

I've been taking brix readings for more than a year. Anyone who does it will tell you the numbers can vary tremendously. I think the theory is correct, but when you cover the plant with sprays, the brix readings are contaminated. You aren't able to read the minerals and sugars dissolved in the sap alone. All the crud on the surface gets included in the sample which always raises the numbers artificially. I've not seen any proof that ties brix to potency or flavor and that's about all I care about.

The article also mentions you need to use low concentrations for foliar sprays. That means you can't apply much in the way of nutrients with this method unless you spray daily. If you spray a lot, I'm convinced you clog up stomata and cause more harm than good.

I guess I stand by my previous post. It works - especially for a quick treatment for a mild deficiency. I still think it is a "vitamin supplement" good for about 10% of what a plant needs. In the end, I don't care for it much. I've done a lot of foliar feeding and it is usually feels like too much work for the return I see. It does make it more difficult to spot problems early that appear on leaves. I'll leave my spraying for bugs.

BTW, my highest brix plants (18-19) also had some of the worst mite infestations, so I call "BS" on brix stopping pests. The way to higher brix is through the soil. Highly mineralized - lots of rocks, and the necessary bacteria to eat those rocks, turning them into plant food. That's the whole idea behind the high brix grows I've been a part of.

Like AK said, if it works for you, do it!

:Namaste:
 
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