Need help and advice on scrogging

[HigherTheHigh]

hi everyone

planning my next grow and the next few weeks ill be getting some new seeds to pop for my garden.

need some advice on my first time scrogging, love the idea of having a full canopy of frosty buds
4x8 tent
8 iws pot system or coco/perlite
2 600w cool hoods with 6" extraction
4" intake

question is
how long do i veg for?
do i do any sort of training? if so does anyone have any pics of early stage training ect?

thanks

 

[lootznbootz]

This is my first scrog in a 3x3
Because my area is so small i didnt have to veg long and i didnt start training them into the net until after i flipped them to 12/12

Look at scrogdawgs journal
He vegged them until they reached the ends of his net flipped them and installed a second net to accommodate the stretch

As opposed to filling it to about 50% - 75% depending on your strain and stretch and filling it to the rest of the way with the stretch

Theres tons of journals using all types of scrog if you search them

Not So Rookie Anymore

 

[HigherTheHigh]

that looks really well lootz! if you dont mind me asking what dry weight did you get out of her, it would give me a round about figure, the reason i ask is i love northern lights and iv 4 fem groming at the moment but my lst'ing was'nt the best

 

[Scrogdawg]

To answer your question about how long to veg for...Let the garden decide that. When your plants are about a foot tall install your screen and as the branches grow through the screen tuck them back under and force them to grow to the next square and keep doing that with each branch until the screen is a little better than half full. You'll have several horizontal branches growing and what would have been lower growing buds are now at the same height as your tops. Once your 50-75% full in the screen flip them to flower. They will fill the scrog with tops during the stretch and you'll be pissin bliss till you harvest.

Yield is up to the grower and how well the plants do. Very hard to go by what someone else yielded.

My advise is read, read, read and exercise patience with your grow. There is so much good information on this site. Check out other members journals with similar grows as often as you can.

Be sure to start a journal and put a link to it in your signature when you start your grow and as time goes on many experienced growers will subscribe and offer a lot of help that can be invaluable to your successful grow.

 

[lootznbootz]

that looks really well lootz! if you dont mind me asking what dry weight did you get out of her, it would give me a round about figure, the reason i ask is i love northern lights and iv 4 fem groming at the moment but my lst'ing was'nt the best

Thank you!

My grow is still active so i dont have a dry weight to give you just yet.
If you subscribe to my journal and follow along were almost to the chop couple more weeks.

Ive grown this strain before so i know its a good yielder but this grow has had its share of problems so you guess is as good as mine

Everything dawg said was spot on!

Not So Rookie Anymore

 

[HigherTheHigh]

thanks scrogdawg! ill start another journal up when i eventually get to it, do you use coco or dwc? if so is there any you reccomend?
heard hydro is alot faster for veg and flower, the only really reason i ask about the yields is i like to jar them for about 6 month to a year.
what is the strain your growing lootz? the northern lights a good yielder?

 

[Weaselcracker]

I can also help you with scrogging if you have specific questions. I always put my screen on at the time I move my plants into the flowering room. Often they are quite overgrown at that point and I'm really lashing them down to make a big plant into a smaller one that fits the screen. A few of my strains are quite stretchy in flowering as well.

After the screen is on- it is merely there for something to tie to. It's a common misconception that you weave the branches through the screen. You can do this a little bit but it's increasingly difficult, hard on the plants, and not at all a good way to do it.

When your branches are growing off the screen you just bend them 90° and lash them down. It's kind of like fitting a large bush into a suitcase.

Get some pipe cleaners they are the best thing to use for training plants. Lots of info and pictures in both of my first journals and I can dig stuff out for you if you have specific questions.
I've typed out the same info on some of these subjects so many times that it gets tiring replying to threads sometimes.

My experience has been that the overgrown plants have yielded best. I think it's all about having a great root system in the pot before flipping it to flowering. A screen filled 75% with foliage at flip is ok, but a pot only filled 75% with roots isn't as good. It's not bad, and I do it fairly often- not suggesting that you 'should' do that ir that you won't be fine if your plant isn't oversized. I just notice that the ones with more foliage to fit in the screen (ie better root systems) yield better in the end.

 

[HigherTheHigh]

hello weasel, thank you for your reply!
thanks for the info and yes id need just a little help, i didnt no if id of needed to top the plants or not, just it all looks a little complex if.
im planning on getting some more northern lights and attempting to scrog in a 4x8 tent, 4-5 week veg then flip them, iv seen a (plantit oxypot bubbler system) heard that if i use a one of them 4-5 weeks will be long enough as dwc is alot faster? or getting or an autopot system.
yeah to many people worry about whats happening up top but its down bottom thats most important! rhizotonic was the best thing i ever bought for starting of.

if you have any pics of early stage id be really apreciated if you could show me of how i bend and where, i may sound stupid but i tend to feel at ease if thers a pic

thanks everyone once again!

 

[Weaselcracker]

No problem I will dig some photos out later. I may have posted similar info in quite a few other scrogging threads as well. I'll dig around but it won't be till later as I'm really on the run- out the door right now. Cheers

 

[Scrogdawg]

Agree with Weaselcracker. Nothing good happens above ground without care and good management of whats going on underground.

thanks scrogdawg! do you use coco or dwc? if so is there any you reccomend?

I know nothing about soil or coco. I RDWC with a scrog and I love it. I'm not sure if veg and flowering times are shorter with a dwc system. I'm flowering for about 70 days on my 2 White Widows that I have growing right now and think either soil or coco would be the same. Guess I'm a poor one to ask that question of. Weaselcracker has possibly more info on that and could speak to it for you.

Here's a couple of pictures of my 2 white widows in dwc and scrog at about 29 days into flower. The screen is 25" x 30" and I use 1 400watt HPS light for flower.
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[Scrogdawg]

Not sure if you get the jest from these pictures but its kind of a progression through the early scrog phase.

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[LED209]

Good for you! Scrog is the best! The strain and screen size will determine your veg time. I usually put my screen 12-15 inches above the tops of my pots. I usually top the plant as many times as I can. I usually run a 6x4 scrog and top twice with six plants under. It will veg between 30-40 days. If you check out my last Grow it has some photos of what's going on. Anything else I can help with let me know!


Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[HigherTheHigh]

yeah i think i may top them but ill take a look at scrogdawgs first, the 12-15" above plants is that for the streth on the 12/12 stretch?
what is everyone veging with aswell? iv got a 300w dual cfl and 340w red cfl, but it seems as if they take forever with them.
veged for 2 weeks under the dual then put my 600 hps under them and they shot up, not so much stretch as you would think neither

 

[lootznbootz]

thanks scrogdawg! ill start another journal up when i eventually get to it, do you use coco or dwc? if so is there any you reccomend?
heard hydro is alot faster for veg and flower, the only really reason i ask about the yields is i like to jar them for about 6 month to a year.
what is the strain your growing lootz? the northern lights a good yielder?

Im growing northern lights from nirvana.

In my experience its a great yeilder!
Very dense buds that are sticky with trichomes very early on.
The smell is very pungent as well.
Mine have a skunky but sweet smell

Ive run a few phenos of it they were all fairly consistent.
I had one that ended up being very sour and was frostier than ive ever seen it didnt yeild that as much as other ones ive come across but the smoke was by far the best ive ever grown...

Very good strain overall especially for a beginner strain.

Not So Rookie Anymore

 

[Scrogdawg]

yeah i think i may top them but ill take a look at scrogdawgs first, the 12-15" above plants is that for the streth on the 12/12 stretch?
what is everyone veging with aswell? iv got a 300w dual cfl and 340w red cfl, but it seems as if they take forever with them.
veged for 2 weeks under the dual then put my 600 hps under them and they shot up, not so much stretch as you would think neither

The 12-15" is where you'd grow to and then start going horizonatally under the screen with the branches at that height. The stretch would be vertical growth from your screen upwards and could double to total 30" from the pots. If you look at the very first picture I posted above, you'll see what I did. The first screen was set only 8" above the pots so it was necessary to add a second screen 9" above the first for a total of 17" above the pots. If I'd have run the first screen higher (12-15") then the second screen wouldn't have been necessary. The plants are 26" from the pots, so 9" above the top screen.

I veg with a 400 watt MH and flower with a 400 watt HPS so again I can't offer any help with cfl's.

Lastly, topping. I topped mine twice at the 4th node and it was just right for my size screen.

 

[lootznbootz]

Cfls do take longer to grow with period.
Especially when you try and compare to an hid it just cant be done.
Were talkin 10's of thousands of lumens compared to a cfl lol
If you have and can use an hid id say go for it. If your looking for faster growth your definitely going to get it with an hid at the beginning of my journal i was using cfls then switched to my hid that growth was overwhelming in a week!


Not So Rookie Anymore

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok I looked back in time and found a thread on which I answered some scrog questions.
I'm not so sure that this is the info you really need right now - but at least it shows you one way of doing things- an example of a portable scrog screen, and how I squash a stretchy sativa into one.
I can dig up other info- just ask.

This is the link to that thread and I'll quote one of my posts from there into here.

1st time clone scrog! Looking for suggestions - Pics included

Oops just a minute....

Ok here. (Technical difficulties). Turns out this is a quote lifted from my second journal.

~MALAWI~

A Malawi I've had in veg awaiting space. She's a nice plant. I'd love to see her grow wild and free, but unfortunately I've got limited space, and limited time. I don't get to be wild and free, and so neither does she. It makes me sad, but into the scrog she goes. She's a little big for too it but I'll squash the poor thing in there. Maybe I'll let her grow out the sides a little and then cut the screen off after she's done (trying to) stretch.
I'm sorry!

I stick the screen in top and jam the support shafts into the pot.

About one minute later... I just pulled the obvious longest limbs through the screen, crudely. No point getting too fussy here. They'll sort themselves out. In another couple days I'll take a second look, and continue to rearrange things over the next few weeks.
Note to self-
Don't forget this time to cut some clones
Don't forget this time to make a note of when you put her in to flowering.

I harvested this a while ago and she was one of my best yielding plants in a long time, at about 5 ounces which is just shy of 1 GPW ( one gram produced per watt used. )



It's normal to top and train in conjunction with scrogging. There are other ways than topping. You can bend a plant on its side and it will grow shoots up everywhere from the side- which achieves what you want.

Here are a couple links from the Cap'n- the guy that led to me joining 420. Also maybe not exactly what you're asking- but definitely good reading.

How To: Bend and top your way to a 1 pound monster


And-

How vegetative growth time exponentially affects yield

I don't know anything about DWC systems. I do a little bit of DTW with coco or
perlite, but mostly grow in Sunshine mix (peat moss/perlite).

 

[Scrogdawg]

Now I see what you meant by cramming a plant in a suitcase. Makes sense.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yes. That's a fairly stretchy plant which was growing full speed in veg. And now is already overflowing the screen before even starting the stretch.
All you have to do is lay limbs down in whichever direction there is the most room on the screen.
Learn about supercropping, which is just a simple trick of squashing the stem to make it more flexible before you bend it. Then just keep bending them whatever direction they'll fit, lay them on the screen and hold them down loosely with pipe cleaners.
Pipe cleaners are one of the most useful tools in my grow.

 

[HigherTheHigh]

thanks again everyone for all there comments, been taking a look at most of your journals.
im thinking of going dwc, going to top her at 4-5th node then top her again but i will require a bit of assistance so ill let everyone no.
so after i germinate seeds for dwc do i put them in rockwool cubes?
shorter grow, shorter flower period, shorter flush, is that right?