Where to start - Need some advice - Started outdoor finishing indoor

[Gree N]

I had some plants going in the yard, just a casual grower trying to get a little perso yah no.
Ended up getting some kickass plants from bagseed unkown origin, sex'd 6 females had them in the yard got a big forest out the back. Came back from holiday and my housemate had skimped on the water and they looked so unhealthy all drooped over, at this stage they had only been into flower for about 4 weeks *date 02/02/17* once id returned from holiday (3 week holiday).
I brought them back too life and 3 of the 6 turned into hermi's I was so shattered, I pulled up two 6 footer hermi's and left a smaller one hidden and away from 3 remaining females.

About 2 weeks ago *12/3/17* I busted someone searching for my plants with a flashlight (a nosy neighbour who had noticed me due to my complacency when trudging off into the rainforest not giving a fuck). I ran down with my dog on the lead and they bolted, I wish I knew which neighbour it was!! So I hastily grabbed my last two big females in pots and threw them inside, third fem is in the ground and hasnt been discovered yet although stunted from the shock of almost dying

At this point I'm tired of losing plants outside because the place is getting more residential so I decided to build a grow room it measured 1800Lx2200Wx1100H (6x7x3.5) (total prick trying to navigate through a 1m high cealing in 6x7 room but I do what i gotta do.
I have 4 tubes 36w t5 flouro's at 3000k, 5 24w CFL at 3000k and two 17w LED's the lightbulb type warm white and its all dangling from the ceiling in a massive diy mess haha, I have tried to put as little effort and do things as cheap as possible, it has still been quite alot of effort and I've spent a bit of coin on light fittings and bulbs from home depot. Ive done it all as cheap as possible as I'm holding out for my order of LED COB's and drivers which are still four weeks away.
The walls of the room are all painted white and the floor is large rocks, sand and dirt which is still being dug deeper .

The two plants are actually looking pretty nice one looks like its stuck inbetween veg and flower and it just keeps growing, It was about 6 foot high so I have had to dig the pot into the ground and train the plant to climb across the room and it almost spans the full 1800, the other fem was abit further into flower when I rescued her so she has just started filling is this last week after I finally got a temp lightsource going for them.

I have setup an automatic watering system and have the lights and extra fans on timer (one exhaust fan going 24/7 as its a small cramped area. Im away from 2-5 days at a time for work.


If you read this far thanks alot I will try get some photo's soon,

so the questions are - 1. How close should I actually have these flouro's too the plants, I eased them into it starting from 12" now im down too about 3" and finally seeing things grow.

2. Can it even be done? I've read alot about people vegging indoor then flower outdoor but not the other way around?

3. This is the only space I have which is roughly 1m-1.2m high through the whole room. What size should I aim for when vegging new plants too keep them under 1m high once fully matured?

I've had so many questions too ask but found most of the answer already on this forum I've just been lurking untill I could secure a decent VPN to register and post.

-Gree N

 

[Islandgrow]

I had some plants going in the yard, just a casual grower trying to get a little perso yah no.
Ended up getting some kickass plants from bagseed unkown origin, sex'd 6 females had them in the yard got a big forest out the back. Came back from holiday and my housemate had skimped on the water and they looked so unhealthy all drooped over, at this stage they had only been into flower for about 4 weeks *date 02/02/17* once id returned from holiday (3 week holiday).
I brought them back too life and 3 of the 6 turned into hermi's I was so shattered, I pulled up two 6 footer hermi's and left a smaller one hidden and away from 3 remaining females.

About 2 weeks ago *12/3/17* I busted someone searching for my plants with a flashlight (a nosy neighbour who had noticed me due to my complacency when trudging off into the rainforest not giving a fuck). I ran down with my dog on the lead and they bolted, I wish I knew which neighbour it was!! So I hastily grabbed my last two big females in pots and threw them inside, third fem is in the ground and hasnt been discovered yet although stunted from the shock of almost dying

At this point I'm tired of losing plants outside because the place is getting more residential so I decided to build a grow room it measured 1800Lx2200Wx1100H (6x7x3.5) (total prick trying to navigate through a 1m high cealing in 6x7 room but I do what i gotta do.
I have 4 tubes 36w t5 flouro's at 3000k, 5 24w CFL at 3000k and two 17w LED's the lightbulb type warm white and its all dangling from the ceiling in a massive diy mess haha, I have tried to put as little effort and do things as cheap as possible, it has still been quite alot of effort and I've spent a bit of coin on light fittings and bulbs from home depot. Ive done it all as cheap as possible as I'm holding out for my order of LED COB's and drivers which are still four weeks away.
The walls of the room are all painted white and the floor is large rocks, sand and dirt which is still being dug deeper .

The two plants are actually looking pretty nice one looks like its stuck inbetween veg and flower and it just keeps growing, It was about 6 foot high so I have had to dig the pot into the ground and train the plant to climb across the room and it almost spans the full 1800, the other fem was abit further into flower when I rescued her so she has just started filling is this last week after I finally got a temp lightsource going for them.

I have setup an automatic watering system and have the lights and extra fans on timer (one exhaust fan going 24/7 as its a small cramped area. Im away from 2-5 days at a time for work.


If you read this far thanks alot I will try get some photo's soon,

so the questions are - 1. How close should I actually have these flouro's too the plants, I eased them into it starting from 12" now im down too about 3" and finally seeing things grow.

2. Can it even be done? I've read alot about people vegging indoor then flower outdoor but not the other way around?

3. This is the only space I have which is roughly 1m-1.2m high through the whole room. What size should I aim for when vegging new plants too keep them under 1m high once fully matured?

I've had so many questions too ask but found most of the answer already on this forum I've just been lurking untill I could secure a decent VPN to register and post.

-Gree N

1 . 3 inches or less for distance.
2 . Yes it can be done just try tobget decent light on them. Dont think flourescents will do them justice but it will grow.
3. Depends if indica or sativa dominant. For sativa pretty much no veg time unless scrogging . And for indica probably when at 30 cm and with led you have to keep them at least 18 inches away that has to bw raken inro consideration as well . Good luck with your grow.

"carpe diem"

 

[Gree N]

I have some photo's here from 1 week ago *15/3/17* this was after I had just put the lights and the plant in the room before then it had been under a couple of t5 fluro's for the past 3 days and was hating life. It just started looking a bit nice the last two days after fiddling with heights of the lights.
I basically have to army crawl through dirt under the plants to get too the base of the pots haha.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Honestly, I think you're in for a bit of a nightmare with those sativas in such a limited space. Mainly because of the painfullness of having to crawl around in there and try to reach what you need to reach.
I'm assuming from the appearance that they're going to continue to grow and stretch like crazy.
It can be done - barely/maybe- if you put a scrog screen in and keep tying them down. But it makes me hurt just thinking about it. You'd be better running some short indicas in there that would be more forgiving. And I personally prefer sativas and don't like indica smoke.
If you're going to do it- then I think definitely a screen would be the way to go. All it does is give a horizontal framework around the plant to lash it down to- and you can keep lashing it down no matter how much they stretch. I use pipe cleaners for holding the limbs down.

 

[Gree N]

1 . 3 inches or less for distance.
2 . Yes it can be done just try tobget decent light on them. Dont think flourescents will do them justice but it will grow.
3. Depends if indica or sativa dominant. For sativa pretty much no veg time unless scrogging . And for indica probably when at 30 cm and with led you have to keep them at least 18 inches away that has to bw raken inro consideration as well . Good luck with your grow.

"carpe diem"

Thanks for the reply Islandgrow, I have got them as close as possible now, I've discovered I can bring my lights as close as 10mm without burning the leaves

The lighting is an issue and I really wish I could have left them outside but this was the best I could provide for them on the spot untill my COB's show up, I have 5 x citizen clu3 at 2700k with individual drivers at 36v - 50w. Also have two chinese 100w cob's with individual drivers that come with them. I really couldnt figure out the correct driver size for running multiple COB's, it was doing my head in so I just ordered individual ones so potentailly I can run them at full beans. No dimmer switches ordered yet, anybody know if there is a way to hook up 7 different drivers too a single dimmer or will they all need there own dimmers...

Really 18 inches away for the cob's?! is that even without reflectors?

Honestly, I think you're in for a bit of a nightmare with those sativas in such a limited space. Mainly because of the painfullness of having to crawl around in there and try to reach what you need to reach.
I'm assuming from the appearance that they're going to continue to grow and stretch like crazy.
It can be done - barely/maybe- if you put a scrog screen in and keep tying them down. But it makes me hurt just thinking about it. You'd be better running some short indicas in there that would be more forgiving. And I personally prefer sativas and don't like indica smoke.
If you're going to do it- then I think definitely a screen would be the way to go. All it does is give a horizontal framework around the plant to lash it down to- and you can keep lashing it down no matter how much they stretch. I use pipe cleaners for holding the limbs down.

Oh yes Weaselcracker.... There is no IF about doing it, it is getting done! as you can see I have already tied the big one down to grow horizontal using some tomato training stands I had lying around and its starting too look like a beast to be honest.

Everytime I'm crawling through there I start perspiring within minutes and the abs feel really tight so Im just trying to look at the positive side, It is really good exercise! Once these guys are finished im going to dig that floor out a bit more and either put some concrete down or cement sheeting because the worst part of it is having dirt sticking to your sweat and turning into dirty sweat mud. Obviously im using this area because before now it was not being used and it is in a very inconspicuous spot I think even if somebody broke in too find it, if they got past the dog I dont think they would even find the grow room. I've stopped all light from escaping and created a vacuum pulling fresh air in from outside.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Well - full points for effort. I did all sorts of ridiculous grows before when I started - so won't try too hard to talk you out of it- mostly I feel your pain. I had one way up in an attic- had to carry five gallon buckets up three floors and then up a rickety ladder where there wasn't room to squish through with the bucket- so I had to lift it over my head and balance it above me and try to shove it through the trapdoor without spilling it- while trying to be quiet. Had 40 plants up there and it was totally ridiculous cause they drank so much, and it was so much work- plus had a couple floods which was supremely nerve racking too- but I did it. Sort of.
Spent three years hauling water out 200 meters through the bush to another grow shack I had. Always done late at night after my kid got to bed- in the dark, hours of work- staying up trimming all night knowing I had to get up at dawn to start getting things ready for work and take the kid to school then work all day, etc etc. Must have been having fun I guess.

If that was my place I'd dig it out a little and drag some old carpet or something in there- maybe even a cushion to recline on and cry a little when my muscles started spasming.
If you can find a way to run water down there you'd be doing yourself a favour too.
Curious how this turns out- stick around and update here once in a while would be cool, or start a journal- myself and others will help you with what I/we can.

 

[Gree N]

Haha that attic grow sounds right up my alley, it is fun too experiment. I picked this spot partly because it is kind of a basement where it is below ground level so it is sort of sheltered from our crazy heatwaves we get from 95-105. With a vaccum draft of fresh air constantly flowing I manage to keep it around 75-85 unless I am in the room, my body heat alone brings up the temp in the room

I have started a journal although you can skip the first post because its almost a copy and paste lol.. I thought it would be a more suitable spot for this thread although no one has commented yet
Ill update the journal with new photo's when I get home tomorrow evening.

 

[Musgand]

Why not just lay them ladies on the ground completely trim any leaves and branches to keep it low and get the lights in a row above them. In effect you'll turn a narrow-tall plant to a wide-stumpy plant with (hopefully) a row a colas.

But I don't know how it will react to that treatment as well as losing that sunlight it was used to.

 

[Gree N]

Why not just lay them ladies on the ground completely trim any leaves and branches to keep it low and get the lights in a row above them. In effect you'll turn a narrow-tall plant to a wide-stumpy plant with (hopefully) a row a colas.

But I don't know how it will react to that treatment as well as losing that sunlight it was used to.

Hi Musgand, it might be hard to tell from the picture but that is basically what I have started too do, only option as it physically didn't fit in the room untill I bent the trunk over so far that it actually split a tiny bit about 2ft up the trunk, but that was two weeks ago now and it has recovered perfectly. I wish I was home to get some more photo's, I've already done a massive pruning of fan leaves, sugar leaves and lower branches before this photo was taken it was bushy as fuck. I got a full plastic bag of keif from which is now a 1kg tub of cannabutter I've only gone to the trouble to save this girl because she has always looked like a really nice plant since it was a baby almost 4 months ago now... It was outside in basically full sun for the entire spring and was over head height.

 

[Gree N]

Got back today and everything is looking pretty good!! I wish I had the cob's though because these girls are looking promising.

The one further along on flower is starting to fill out nicely and the bigger one really took well to having all its leaves stripped back.

I'm going to try lie the pots on the sides tomorrow and put up a few string lines to tie everything down to an even canopy. A cushion and a cry will definitely be needed halfway through.

Have a few random bag seed seedlings on the way and going to try run them 12/12 through veg to keep them short.

one of two main cola's tied back

this girl is touching the lights and seems to like it

canopy under shot

smaller girl starting to bulk up a bit finally

 

[Weaselcracker]

That's got the look of a very long flowering sativa you've got there. I like that kind of smoke a lot though.
If you laid the pots on their sides you won't be able to water. Can you just dig out holes for the pots? If you do- leave open holes with space around them for drainage. Thanks

 

[DoctorGonzo]

Those sativas absolutely won't finish under that lighting. In fact, for those to finish decently at all, you'd need 1000w HIDs. Not to piss in your cornflakes, but what you're doing, under those lights, in that space, is a waste of time and energy.

 

[Weaselcracker]

We all waste time and energy sometimes. I could work wonders now with all the energy I wasted when I was younger. As long as he's having fun and learning stuff he'll end up with some good experience and hopefully some smoke that makes him happy. I use hps 600s for flowering and could easily flower more sativa under one of them than those two plants- so while 1000w may produce better smoke- I think he can get by on plenty less and still finish with something.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

We all waste time and energy sometimes. I could work wonders now with all the energy I wasted when I was younger. As long as he's having fun and learning stuff he'll end up with some good experience and hopefully some smoke that makes him happy. I use hps 600s for flowering and could easily flower more sativa under one of them than those two plants- so while 1000w may produce better smoke- I think he can get by on plenty less and still finish with something.

It seemed to me that OP was wondering if what he was doing, was worth it. From a professional grower's perspective, the answer is "No."
From a "fsck around with some pot plants & see what happens, & who cares about the end result?-slash-grow seeds on a window sill" perspective, what he's doing is a-okay. Tropical sativas don't finish under CFLs, there's simply not enough light. And yeah, you can run tropical landraces under a 600w and get by, but the end results are mediocre at best-the Weed rarely finishes, terps are for shite, smells like grass/hay, reversals, etc. Is it fun? It can be, but if time effort and energy are expended in pursuit of (hopefully) herb that's better than "interesting" than it's really best to focus on genetics that will provide the desired, superior end result. In my opinion.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

It seemed to me that OP was wondering if what he was doing, was worth it. From a professional grower's perspective, the answer is "No."
From a "fsck around with some pot plants & see what happens, & who cares about the end result?-slash-grow seeds on a window sill" perspective, what he's doing is a-okay. Tropical sativas don't finish under CFLs, there's simply not enough light. And yeah, you can run tropical landraces under a 600w and get by, but the end results are mediocre at best-the Weed rarely finishes, terps are for shite, smells like grass/hay, reversals, etc. Is it fun? It can be, but if time effort and energy are expended in pursuit of (hopefully) herb that's better than "interesting" than it's really best to focus on genetics that will provide the desired, superior end result. In my opinion.

So I don't come off as cross, let me clarify a bit.
If OP put the effort and energy into what he's got there, into a tiny tent where those grossly inefficient bulbs would actually light something, and crack a few indica seeds, a micrgrow would actually net him some decent smokable weed that reflected his efforts. OP should look into r/microgrowery and r/spacebuckets over on Reddit-economy of scale can net some really cool results. Growing is math, along with science and spirit, and the more people that grow, the better off we all are.

 

[Gree N]

Those sativas absolutely won't finish under that lighting. In fact, for those to finish decently at all, you'd need 1000w HIDs. Not to piss in your cornflakes, but what you're doing, under those lights, in that space, is a waste of time and energy.

Don't do it. If they're real Hazes, it simply won't end well.
If they're allegedly Haze, but provably heavy indica, then it's not really Haze, and you can proceed.
There's wayyyy too many under-lit, grow tent projects I see here that don't finish anywhere near max capability/highest quality because of poor genetics choices.

Hey Doctor Gonzo I think you are underestimating cfl, t5's and LED's, not too shit in your pocket but technology is moving forward and I've seen some kickass plants under this new energy saving lighting.

The plants seem to be flowering faster then they usually would outside so I am happy with that, there is a dank smell in the room too.

 

[Gree N]

I have researched in the past few months reading a lot of different grow journals where growers have comparisons of HID vs CFL/T5 vs LED.

From what I can gather HID wins for penetration closely followed by LED though. HID wins from a commercial point of view because the buds are denser and heavier reaping you more pounds and more cash, although CFL and LED have a more targeted spectrum which results in a cleaner veg period or flowering period, sure the buds might be a bit fluffier but in no way are they not as potent or crystallised and to be honest From a buyers point of view I hate the super hard dense buds feels like your being ripped off when you buy a bag of it

 

[Gree N]

So I don't come off as cross, let me clarify a bit.
If OP put the effort and energy into what he's got there, into a tiny tent where those grossly inefficient bulbs would actually light something, and crack a few indica seeds, a micrgrow would actually net him some decent smokable weed that reflected his efforts. OP should look into r/microgrowery and r/spacebuckets over on Reddit-economy of scale can net some really cool results. Growing is math, along with science and spirit, and the more people that grow, the better off we all are.

Cfl and led may have less penetration than HID but I really can't see them being grossly inefficient when the 2000 lumens they produce for each bulb is targeted at the 2700k spectrum which is the most efficient for a plant to absorb whilst in flowering, also because of the lower running temperature they can be placed far closer to the plant and surrounding bs it (or plant surround the bulb) which means that almost no light is wasted thus in my opinion making a 1000w HID grossly in efficient in comparison to a 2000 lumen 2700k 18w led bulb.

 

[DoctorGonzo]

Cfl and led may have less penetration than HID but I really can't see them being grossly inefficient when the 2000 lumens they produce for each bulb is targeted at the 2700k spectrum which is the most efficient for a plant to absorb whilst in flowering, also because of the lower running temperature they can be placed far closer to the plant and surrounding bs it (or plant surround the bulb) which means that almost no light is wasted thus in my opinion making a 1000w HID grossly in efficient in comparison to a 2000 lumen 2700k 18w led bulb.

The only way LED can compare to HID is in grow-specific designs. LED bulbs bought at Home Depot simply do not compare on any level.
The "closer is better" argument doesn't hold water vs. HID unless you're talking COBs, et al.

As for T5's: Been using them for years, and they certainly have their place. They're great for cloning and early, bulk veg. But for flowering? Absolutely not. A single 400w Hortilux HPS HID will out-yield an 8x 50w, 4' T5 light set every. single. time. Better quality, better terps, too.

The Math:
A 600w HPS = 95,000 lumens and will pierce canopy to about 4'. In contrast, a "2000 lumen, 18w LED bulb" produces about 90 lumens/watt and will pierce 12" of canopy at best.

Hortilux 600w HPS HID: 95,000 lumens /600 = 158 lumens/watt, spectrum balanced for plants.

18w, 2000 lumens LED = 111 lumens/watt, but isn't specifically balanced for plant spectrum & w/only 12" of canopy at best is extremely inefficient vs. HID.

158 HID vs. 111 LED = HID lumens/watt is about 50% more efficient/watt, baseline, per your specs.

That said, if you compare a $3000 LED grow light to a Standard, $300, 1000w (non-DE, i.e. Gavita Pro) HID, there are certainly arguable points in the discussion. In five years, we'll all probably be running Pro LED setups-but not now. And other than in spacebuckets, CFLs and Home Depot LED bulbs have little to no place in marijuana horticulture unless you're just fucking around, though I will concede that rooting clones under CFLs is fine.

 

[Weaselcracker]

What if I put two of my 600s right next to each other. Would my shitty/mediocre hay-smelling waste of time sativas become good ?