Leaves have arcs in them

[Streze420]

Hey im new on here and i have a plant that i just sprouted like 8 days ago.. and now the first of the true leaves have and arc in them looks like there trying to twist... i use a 65w led light its about 14 inches away from the plant.. temp is always in between 72 and 86 degrees.. i use infant purified water and i added 15 ml of seaweed extract.. its in a 5 gallon pot and i use ocean forest foxfarm soil... any know what it could be??

 

[dick23rk]

Hey Streze and welcome to 420 Mag!

It would be helpful if you could upload some pictures of what is happening. If you need help with that there is a link in my signature below this post.

From what you have described this might just be a normal twisting of the first set of leaves, it does happen to a lot of different strains as the leaves grow. Most times all the new ones after that are the way they should be.

But best to still post pictures to ensure this is what's happening.

Also, would you be interested in starting a journal? There is also a link in my signature for that. Then you can record your progress and share it with others. Some experienced growers can also come in and help if needed.

 

[Streze420]

Hey Streze and welcome to 420 Mag!

It would be helpful if you could upload some pictures of what is happening. If you need help with that there is a link in my signature below this post.

From what you have described this might just be a normal twisting of the first set of leaves, it does happen to a lot of different strains as the leaves grow. Most times all the new ones after that are the way they should be.

But best to still post pictures to ensure this is what's happening.

Also, would you be interested in starting a journal? There is also a link in my signature for that. Then you can record your progress and share it with others. Some experienced growers can also come in and help if needed.

 

[dick23rk]

Perfect, I don't see any types of deficiencies or issues with this plant at all. I have had a few different strains that the first set of leaves went twisty like that, sometimes it's just a genetics thing. The 2nd set of leaves looks to be coming out fine so I wouldn't worry about it at all. Just leave them there to do their thing

Do you have a fan pointing right at them or anything? This is the only other thing I may have suspected and forgot to ask about. Wind is good for them to help strengthen the stalk and branches, but too much can also cause some twisting in leaves. Usually an oscillating fan is best.

 

[Streze420]

I have a non ossillating fan. And yeah i have it pointed straight at my plant..should i point it away from it? .. and thanks alot i guess i was worried about nothing... one more would u know a good place i could purchase cannabis seeds?

 

[dick23rk]

Ok, if the fan is pointing directly at them just ensure it's not to much for them, a gentle breeze is good. Maybe even set the fan up higher than the plants and have it point down towards them if that's possible.

There are a few seed banks that are sponsors here at 420 Mag you could check out such as Gorilla Seed Bank, Bonza Seeds, Crop King Seeds, Herbies and I think there's more as well. Here is the link to the "420 Sponsors" tab. Click that and it will take you to a full list of the sponsors here for all your growing needs.

Here is a link to the 420 Member Discount page as well for you to check out

 

[Streze420]

Thanks for all your help... really appreciate it

 

[dick23rk]

Not a problem, best of luck!

And if you decide to start a journal, stop back in here and drop me the link. I will gladly stop in a sub up to it!

 

[Streze420]

Ill make a journal as soon as i figure how to.. is there any way u could send the link again? Cuz i downloaded the app and its not showing anymore

 

[dick23rk]

There's a link in my signature below on how to start a journal. Then you just go to the grow room tab, go to grow journals, and then into journals in progress. You can start a new thread from there. Just be sure to read the info first at the link in my signature on how to start a journal

 

[Streze420]

Do u know whats the best hours for vegging? I keep reading different times from 16 to 24hrs of light... and just confused whats the difference..?

 

[dick23rk]

This is one of those controversial subjects for everyone because some things work better for different people. Some will start out on 24/0, some on 20/4 and some on 18/6.. Some believe that 24/0 is best for new seedlings but the ones that use 18/6 refer back to needing the dark period which is when a plant does most of it's repairing and root movement. In the end it's really about what that person sees working best for them. I honestly don't believe in a 24/0 light schedule for cannabis, 18/6 and 20/4 yes, I believe that the plant needs a dark cycle in it's life just like most plants do. Some people will grow autoflower type strains under 24/0 though since they don't need a flip to 12/12 to complete photosynthesis. I think it's mostly about light hours when it comes to an auto.

So, in the end.. go with 18/6 for a run, then maybe try 20/4 and see what the results are like if using the same strain. I have never dipped down to 16/8 but I have seen people doing it so save a bit of electricity and it still gives good results since some parts of the world may only get 16 hours of light anyway. Where I live now, it gets dark at 9pm right now roughly, and by 4 or 430 am the sun is back up, so about 7 hours real darkness and plants thrive around here in the prairies

 

[Streze420]

Thanks alot man im giving my plant the 16/8 still contemplating if i should go 18/6.. here's a lil update of my plant

 

[Streze420]

Thanks alot man im giving my plant the 16/8 still contemplating if i should go 18/6.. here's a lil update of my plant

 

[Streze420]

Next leaves came out good at first... and today when i seen them they were arching too...

 

[dick23rk]

If the plant is still growing fine then I wouldn't worry about it to much. I think the only deficiency that really causes twisted new growth is Boron and a seedling shouldn't have any nutrient issues when it's first sprouted. a seedling holds enough nutrients in the the cotyledon leaves for a seedling to live 2 to 3 weeks roughly without any added nutrients. This could just be an abnormality in the strain genetics,, or it could be because of your fan. Wait it out and see how it goes, the new leaves are at least looking better formed.

Just a reference as well, leaves will arch, up and down naturally. What you are seeing is twisted growth.

 

[Streze420]

Oh okay thank u... ill wait it out it seems like shes doing good... By any chance would u know any good ph meter i could purchase? because i bought one but it was shit.... would not calibrate

 

[dick23rk]

I have heard that the "Blue Lab" ph testers are pretty good. Most of the cheap ones you can find are sort of hit and miss it seems depending on which one you buy. For a good quality one you are looking at $100 and up from there, something digital with a good name and warranty. You can also check out the 420 sponsors page and see if there is anyone in there that sells them, most times you will get a 420 Mag discount from them.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Perfect, I don't see any types of deficiencies or issues with this plant at all. I have had a few different strains that the first set of leaves went twisty like that, sometimes it's just a genetics thing.

Blueberry, lol? You are correct about certain lines exhibiting behavior like this. Blueberry is one that I saw this in. I did wonder at the time if the strain was just overly delicate in terms of nutrients. I always meant to do an experiment with two or three different types of "soil" and a couple in an inert medium (perlite) - one with a very dilute solution of General Hydroponics three-part Flora series of nutrients, one with a dilute dose of Olivia's Cloning Solution (which always seemed mild, gentle, and never burned any of my cuttings). I was thinking at the time that the initial nutrition requirements (of that strain) - and sensitivities - might mean that the reasonably mild soil that I was using might have been a wee bit hot for them. Unfortunately, I ran out of seeds.

Years ago, someone gave me about 20 seeds of an unknown strain that they'd used... GA, I think (don't ask me to spell that particular acid right now), to cause the parent to produce male flowers. ALL of the seedlings looked pretty twisted/mauled. I ended up disposing of those seedlings, but I always wondered if the GA treatment might have caused some... chromosomal damage. IDK. I have always been a fan of using STS (silver thiosulphate) instead of GA if one must produce opposite-sex flowers. I suppose they are both capable of this, it's just a personal preference; I always got the feeling that STS' effect stopped with the plant it was used on, while GA's effect might be further reaching than that. Again... IDK.

BtW, speaking of hot soil... <COUGH>Ocean Forrest<COUGH>. No, it's not Miracle Grow "fortified" soil, lol, but it's still got a lot of readily accessible nutrients in it. I have been using Fox Farms' Happy Frog for seedling growth and then (sometimes) adding Ocean Forrest when I repot.

Just leave them there to do their thing

I have found that to be excellent advice for any new (cannabis) grower, lol. Unlike the situation with six-year old girls and new kittens, cannabis plants have no way to let a new grower know if/when he/she is in the process of... "caring them to death." (While the kitten, OtOH, can generally let the little girl know with no harm to either party other than a wee bit of blood .)

Years ago, I stopped answering "My plant is drooping, am I not watering it enough?" questions in the affirmative, and started asking if the grower was inexperienced... If, yes, then I could flip a coin as to whether it was under- or over-watered. Because we all care about our plants - but the new grower often cares too much...

Do you have a fan pointing right at them or anything? This is the only other thing I may have suspected and forgot to ask about. Wind is good for them to help strengthen the stalk and branches, but too much can also cause some twisting in leaves. Usually an oscillating fan is best.

I have a non ossillating fan. And yeah i have it pointed straight at my plant..should i point it away from it?

Try pointing the fan directly at a wall and catching the seedlings on the bounce (err... so to speak). You can also fashion a diffuser of sorts to place between the fan and the seedlings, if you cannot reduce the fan's speed enough to suit.

In regards to strengthening the stems, manually twisting the plants will also help accomplish this. Think of the process of building one's muscles up. You work out (or just work, lol) and your muscles get bigger - by the act of doing a mild amount of damage to the tissue and then healing (sort of?). Just remember that seedlings' stems are fragile and that they do not have much in the way of root systems! What I do is to hold the stem just above ground level, in such a way that it cannot move below my fingers. Then I'll gently give a few twists, above, with my other hand. I may do this multiple times per plant, moving upwards (always remembering to support/immobilize the plant below).

This is one of those controversial subjects for everyone because some things work better for different people. Some will start out on 24/0, some on 20/4 and some on 18/6.. Some believe that 24/0 is best for new seedlings but the ones that use 18/6 refer back to needing the dark period which is when a plant does most of it's repairing and root movement. In the end it's really about what that person sees working best for them. I honestly don't believe in a 24/0 light schedule for cannabis, 18/6 and 20/4 yes, I believe that the plant needs a dark cycle in it's life just like most plants do.

It has been a while, but I've read studies... It appears that cannabis can function in two different modes, so to speak. Therefore, people who run constant light don't kill their plants. [EDIT: However, a vegetative phase light schedule of 24/0 (constant light) is inefficient and not optimum.] I used to have a turbocharged automobile that was capable of running on 87 octane (USA measuring method) gasoline. And it would do so. It just wouldn't... I couldn't... err... change lanes at 55mph with just a firmer press on the accelerator pedal, like I could with higher octane fuel. I could run my turbo Buick on 87 octane fuel. And I suppose I would have, if I had found myself on the cusp of running out of gas. Performance certainly have suffered, along with my enjoyment.

In one such study, the researchers grew a relatively large number of plants under varying hours of light (/darkness). IIRC, the measuring stick they used was harvest yield (seems like a good measuring stick to me ). It was determined that the harvest on plants that received <4 hours of darkness per day was less. I can function on reduced sleep (and have done so for much of my life :sad: ) . But I do not function well on reduced sleep.

I do not recall the point that was the top of the graph. I think it was 18/6, but I could be mistaken. That is typically what I use for general vegetative cycle unless there are special circumstances. I used to give my cuttings 24 hours of "gentle" light for the first week or two. These days, I'll just stick a cutting in the vegetative room (plenty of shading down low). If a friend wants a few rooted clones and wishes them to begin flowering ASAP outdoors, I might increase the light so that there is a more drastic increase in hours of darkness per day when they go outside. IDK how much difference this actually makes. But I have placed rooted clones outside in past years - when we had an early warming period - and had issues with them beginning to flower, and if memory serves (flip a coin :rolleyes3 ) this happened less when they were being given less hours of light (and, therefore, more hours of darkness - which is really what we should all be saying, because that's the one that actually counts) prior to placing outside.

I think it's mostly about light hours when it comes to an auto.

Or... light per day? I am currently wondering whether there would be much practical difference at harvest time between an auto-flowering plant that was given light 18 hours/day and one that was given the same gross amount of light - but given it in only 12 hours each day.

So, in the end.. go with 18/6 for a run, then maybe try 20/4 and see what the results are like if using the same strain. I have never dipped down to 16/8 but I have seen people doing it so save a bit of electricity and it still gives good results since some parts of the world may only get 16 hours of light anyway.

...and, in some parts of the world, one is lucky to have electricity for 16+ hours/day.

BtW, the suggestion to try various schedules is a good one. Might I add "use clones from the same mother whenever possible" when performing such experimentation? That way, es will be using plants that are as close to carbon copies as is possible.

If the plant is still growing fine then I wouldn't worry about it to much. I think the only deficiency that really causes twisted new growth is Boron and a seedling shouldn't have any nutrient issues when it's first sprouted. a seedling holds enough nutrients in the the cotyledon leaves for a seedling to live 2 to 3 weeks roughly without any added nutrients. This could just be an abnormality in the strain genetics,, or it could be because of your fan. Wait it out and see how it goes, the new leaves are at least looking better formed.

Just a reference as well, leaves will arch, up and down naturally. What you are seeing is twisted growth.

From my reading (and personal experience), boron deficiencies are relatively uncommon during any point in the cannabis plant's life cycle. And, as you mentioned, nutrient deficiencies in general are uncommon in seedlings. Their nutritional requirements are commensurate with their size. Mild nutrient toxicity, OtOH...

I have heard that the "Blue Lab" ph testers are pretty good. Most of the cheap ones you can find are sort of hit and miss it seems depending on which one you buy. For a good quality one you are looking at $100 and up from there, something digital with a good name and warranty. You can also check out the 420 sponsors page and see if there is anyone in there that sells them, most times you will get a 420 Mag discount from them.

+1. It's nice to get a member discount and all. But we should be giving our custom to this forum's sponsors whenever we can, regardless. 420 Magazine is FREE for all of us to use, and PRICELESS in terms of the information available (and that's not even counting the personal help we receive from other members of this community, or the "social aspects" that some seem to crave). BUT... It is certainly not free for the forum's owner to provide this service to us. It all costs money, from the hardware that occasionally fails (or just gets old) and needs to be replaced, to the monthly hosting/bandwidth bills, the many hours of work that our fearless leader puts in (this aint just some kid in a basement with an old computer, folks, lol, it's serious work and that comes with serious expenses). And then there's our safety/security... That costs money, too.

Anyway... I have also read good reports of Blue lab devices. I have not personally used them.

I have had (lots of) good experience with the Milwaukee brand. Milwaukee makes the only "el cheapo" pH tester that I would actually recommend - and use, if necessary - and that is the pH600. It's so cheap that it is carded to hang from a hook in the stores instead of packaged in a nice box to be placed on store shelves. The pH600 runs about $20. That's cheaper than the probe on my current pH meter, lol; and that's a good thing, because the pH600's probe is NOT replaceable. It doesn't have fancy dual-point automatic calibration - just a single-point calibration that the user does manually with the little (included) screwdriver. It doesn't read out to two decimal places (only one), and it doesn't have .05 accuracy (IIRC, it's accurate to +/- .1). In short, it's just a decent BASIC digital pH meter. Way better than those test strips, especially if you're color blind, your solution is not CLEAR, you have an urge to test the pH of everything from your nutrient solution to the water in the cat's bowl, et cetera. I think it has ATC (automatic temperature compensation), but I cannot swear to it. To be honest, ATC is not really necessary, IMHO. It IS helpful in terms of absolute accuracy, of course (and to anyone who requires such, it is far more convenient to have it than to have to use a thermometer and then do the calculations or reference a chart). But a sample with a pH of 7 at 25 degrees Celsius may have a pH of 7.08 at 5 degrees Celsius, and a pH of 6.98 at 60 degrees Celsius. So, as you see, the variance that temperature causes to the pH readings is not large.

I am quite fond of my Milwaukee pH56. They appear to be selling for around $60 or so. It has a replaceable probe (around $30-$35, IIRC). It has TWO-point calibration, and it is "automatic," meaning that no screwdriver is required, lol, just (basically) put it into calibration mode and dip it into your pH 7 solution and one of the other ones (I recommend the pH 4.01 instead of the 10 because 10 is far out of the range that we deal with, while 7 and 4.01 sort of bracket our range, sort of). It not only has ATC, it displays the temperature of the sample. It is waterproof - and floats - which could be helpful if one is a klutz. It displays to .01 and is accurate to .05 (IIRC).

I cannot recommend Hanna Instruments. I have used their cheap meters and have never been impressed. A good friend worked in the municipal water / wastewater industry for years, and he felt that Hanna's more expensive products were okay - but we're not spending $1,000+ on our meters, lol. The water/wastewater plant labs that he worked in had several pH meters, each of which probably cost more than everything in a typical personal cannabis grow. They had EC/TDS devices, too... But - and this should give you an idea of the accuracy that was required - they tested the amount of total dissolved solids by taking a sample, removing the liquid from said sample, and weighing the remainder. On a scale that probably cost as much as a new automobile. That sat on a 1,000 pound table for stability, with special leg ends to dampen vibration, on a concrete floor. On top of that table was a glass case - because when you're weighing samples on a scale that reads out to either a ten thousandth or a hundred thousandth of a gram (I forget which), even the air currents caused by walking through the room can effect the reading. So... accuracy was important. I gave my buddy my pH56 and asked him to check it against the samples he was checking. He said that it was accurate enough that he wouldn't have any qualms at using it as a backup device for the $$$$ ones that they used. BtW, they had some nice benchtop pH meters, constant-use probes (able to be in the solution all the time!), data-logging to your computer, alarms that could be set to go off for over- or under-range, could be set to PRINT the measurements according to the schedule the user sets (want a paper record of your DWC reservoir's pH, taken every ten minutes day and night, lol?), accuracy like you wouldn't believe, the kind of electrode/probe that the user can refill, etc. But, ah... a little bit of overkill for our purposes . And, besides, who wants to pay $8,500 for a pH meter? Prices like that make my little pH56 seem like an even better value than it is (which is high).

I seem to be rambling, lol, so I'll just hit the POST button now.

 

[dick23rk]

Hey TS, lots of good points you have there Always nice to see you stop in around here so I can read your lengthy and mostly informative posts, even if you are rambling sometimes!

Streze, take this mans advice! lol