Question about GH Florakleen

[Twobs]

Hey everyone. As the title reads, I have a question about General Hydroponics Florakleen. I am running 2x 5 Gallon DWC bubble buckets under 2x COB 400w LEDs for my first grow. I recently started having some issues with PH due to a bad (cheap) PH Pen giving me terrible readings. I've been showing signs of nitrogen toxicity and last night the onset of nute burn as tips of new growth were turning yellow.

I'm running the GH Flora Trio. About 12 hours ago, when I got my new digital PH meter, I decided it was time to run a Florakleen flush for 24 to 48 hours then start my diluted pre-flower transitioning nutrient regimen. But today when I checked my plants, just 12 hours after putting them in the flush I noticed one of my plants looking extremely droopy. Almost like over watering. The roots are getting plenty of air, so I'm wondering if this is something that just happens with Florakleen? I'm using 3.5 Gallons of water in each bucket (Opted for distilled water during the flush instead of the hard water tap I have been using). And I used 4 tsp of Florakleen per bucket. Instructions call for 1-2 tsp per gallon.

Also, I'm growing Autoflowers that are 4 weeks into the grow. I'm right at the pre-flower transition.

Could the drooping be caused from the Florakleen or should I look somewhere else for the cause?

 

[Scientific]

Hi Twobs -- Two suggestions:

First, if you don't already have some, you must must must buy a bottle of pH 7.0 calibration solution and use it to calibrate your pen regularly. (And the electrode on your pen will last longer if you store it soaking in calibration solution.)

A poorly maintained and poorly calibrated pH pen is worse than nothing at all. It will just give you meaningless "magic numbers." Trust me, I'm a scientist.

Second, please forgive me for asking, but why on earth are you flushing a four week old plant? Get that Florakleen out of your buckets and get you plants back on a regular nutrient schedule! (I recommend 1/2 GH's recommended values, which tend to be high.)

(And if you are using distilled/RO water, be sure to add Ca/Mg supplement like GH CALiMAGic.)

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Scientific]

OK, I went and read about FloraKleen at the GH website. I use and like and trust GH products, but I have to call BS on the notion of "cleaning " your plant with acids mid-grow. Maybe for flushing at the end (though I think the jury is out on that), but while a plant is actively, vigorously growing, the last thing it needs is a fast, a flush, high colonic irrigation, or anything else like that. Give your plants the best possible growing conditions you can and leave well enough alone otherwise.

Editorial: I swear, the crazy crap that these greedy marketing f**ks are keep coming up with boggles the mind! They'd have you thinking that this weed that we're growing needs $300 worth of witches' brews with clever names and colorful, stoney graphics on the bottle. N, P, K, and micronutrients are all you need!

 

[Twobs]

I get what you're saying. I was sort of in a dilemma at first on just using straight water to do a transitional flush or use a Florakleen solution. My plants are currently in the dark, but as soon as they wake I'm going to change out the Florakleen. I wanted to let them sleep first to see if that had any affect on the droop I'm currently seeing after using the Florakleen.


In reply to your first post. I read that if I was seeing nitrogen toxicity or nute burn that I should flush and then redo my nute solution a little weaker than before. That's the reason I was flushing, that and I've read that it's good to do when transitioning to the flowering stage.

As far as the 7.0 solution. I definitely understand that. I have some on the way. It won't be here until Friday though. I did just get a new pen and it came with some dry mixable calibration solution that I just used. The pen is also better quality than the first one I had. Definitely part of the learning experience I've been going through...

Thanks for the tips and info!

Edit:
These are the nutrients I'm using.
ArmorSi
CaliMagic
Rapidstart
GH Trio (Micro, Grow, Bloom)
Diamond Nectar
Recharge bennies
(tomorrow I will also be adding in some Hydroguard)
( I also have Liquid KoolBloom and Dry KoolBloom that I plan on adding into the mix later)
I have been mixing my nutrients into the water in the above order.

 

[Scientific]

Edit:
These are the nutrients I'm using.
ArmorSi
CaliMagic
Rapidstart
GH Trio (Micro, Grow, Bloom)
Diamond Nectar
Recharge bennies
(tomorrow I will also be adding in some Hydroguard)
( I also have Liquid KoolBloom and Dry KoolBloom that I plan on adding into the mix later)
I have been mixing my nutrients into the water in the above order.

I like CALiMAGic, Micro, Grow, Bloom, and Hydroguard. Those are what I used in my last grow. The rest might be worth the money--I'd have to see the science to support it, though.

Have you surfed around at the GH website? They have a lot of good info there. Worth some time if you are using their products. I'd particularly recommend this one: Advanced nutrient management for hydroponics growers

As far as I can tell, GH recommends adding nutes in this sequence:
1. CALiMAGic
2. FloraMicro <--They specifically warn always to add this before Gro and Bloom or its nutes will get locked out. (I suspect that it's because it's an alkaline solution and the rest are acidic, but that's just a hunch at this point.)
3. Everything else.

 

[Twobs]

Yes I have read around the site. That's pretty much all I've been doing. Reading and trying to learn on my own. Trial and error. The ArmorSi is a Silica and from what I read must be added first. That's the reason I add it then the CaliMagic. I also add the Trio in that order as well (Micro, Grow, Bloom). The only one in the order I have listed in the post above that I am unsure about is the Rapidstart. Not really certain as to when I should add it to the solution. I've been adding it after the CaliMagic and before the Micro.

Looking back I probably should have started my first grow with a smaller nutrient selection. I'm only able to grow 2 plants at a time and really wanted to maximize the yield as much as possible. I'm realizing now that just a basic nutrient solution with some LST may have been my best bet until I started understanding my plants and their reaction to the solution before expanding the ingredients. Live and learn, right?

I appreciate the info!

 

[Scientific]

Live and learn, right?

Absolutely! Like you, I read read read, but when you dive in and actually start doing it you enter a whole new realm of experience, like making math and measurement mistakes when calculating nutrient concentrations! Ya gotta pay attention! That's one of my big takeaways... That and "persistence counts!"

 

[Twobs]

Little heads-up on things.

Today I finally received my 7.0 PH Down solution. I had previously only used the dry powder mix that had come with my PH Pen. Turns out the dry mix was giving me a bad calibration. My Pen was reading high almost an entire point 9/10ths to be exact. Which has probably been the root of all my issues and attempts at fixing something when I was most likely just making things worse. Also, something I failed to mention in my original post, that is probably what contributed to the droopiness along with the plant already being sick from PH imbalance, I saturated the plants a day or so before using Florakleen with a diluted Neem Oil solution. I was first told to use Neem Oil like this 1-2 times a week at lights out. However, now I am reading that the Neem oil can actually clog pores, cause drooping and all sorts of other bad issues. I mixed it 1/8th tsp Neem Oil to 8oz of distilled water.

The drooping is there and not going away. New growth doesn't seem to have it so much, but growth has slowed considerably with the apparent PH issues so it's hard to tell. I've read that the drooping does not reverse when this occurs from Neem Oil use. I seemingly have the PH issue under control now. Nutrients have been cut back quite a bit. And today, at lights out, I also Misted the plants with a straight PH'd water in an attempt to negate the Neem Oil.

Fingers Crossed.

 

[Scientific]

I received a couple of packets of pH calibration powder with my pH pen too. I had to kind of laugh. When you prepare standards like that in the lab, you use glassware that's specially made for super exact measurements, extremely sensitive balances, cook the chemicals in an oven to get rid of water, and sometimes even take into account the effect of barometric pressure on measurements. And there I was pouring stuff out of and envelope and measuring in a Pyrex kitchen cup. Not the same thing at all.

As for the neem oil and other extras, I think a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach" is the best way to go. Somewhere on the Internet I saw a list of stuff required for cannabis to thrive, and along with water, light, and nutrients, it listed "peace"--that you had to leave your plants alone!

Again, live and learn. Fortunately, these little weeds we're growing snap back fast once any problems are corrected.

 

[Twobs]

Yes, too much fiddling and worry on my part. And they started out so well.... Hopefully they pick up form here on out. Not sure they will though since they are autoflowers. But we shall see. My 2nd grow will be a lot more relaxed I'm sure.

 

[Scientific]

I just about killed an auto with too wet rock wool--I stunted it--but as soon as I fixed the problem the plant snapped back and produced an epic yield.

My next grow went much smoother. For one thing, I realized the with autos the clock is ticking right from the start, so you best get everything right from the get-go!