BlackThumb
New Member
Just wondering if those surfactants I see at the hydro shop have any value added. Are they worth the time/money?
Do those Surfactants work w/nutes & foliers?
- Thread starter BlackThumb
- Start date
Smokin Moose
Fallen Cannabis Warrior & Ex Moderator
They can be, depending on the nutrient being used. Take sea tea and fish emulsion, they have natural surfactants.
A surfactant stops water with ferts from beading on the surface of the leaf. Much like rain water on a polished car - the car wax prevents the water from touching the paint, but if you add a surfactant, such as a detergent, it will wet the paint, not bead.
A surfactant stops water with ferts from beading on the surface of the leaf. Much like rain water on a polished car - the car wax prevents the water from touching the paint, but if you add a surfactant, such as a detergent, it will wet the paint, not bead.
RooRman
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, for the novice growing in soil using organic nutrients... in a word "no". The money you save can be better spent on other aspects of your grow.
- Thread starter
- #4
BlackThumb
New Member
Thanks Roo, what about Hydro? I am new to growing and historically my thumb has been much darker than green, hench the site handle. If I germ 2 seeds, 1 goes to rockwool for hydro and the other to soil. I am trying to hedge my bets as best as possible as I appear able to kill either equally well. With that in mind, would it help me do that? I used a friends folier the other day and saw it bead up right away on my leafs. Freaked me out and I instantly wiped it off with tissue since they looked like little magnifier lenses under the MH and have read enough here to not burn a hole in my leafs. Thats what got me to reading the bottles at the shop yesterday. I wanted to get some of that stuff S.Moose likes so well, the Maxicrop seaweed stuff, but they did not have it and I won't use my friends again. Guess I'll have to mail order some since it appears to have inherent surfactant. Thanks for your input man, I appreciate it.
RooRman
Well-Known Member
For the novice grower, soil is the way to go. Smokin Moose will tell you K.I.S.S. and it is a great philosophy.
Hydro has always been too technical for me to deal with. Meters, pumps, reservoirs, monitoring PPM, etc. all these things complicate the ultimately simple symbiotic relationship between a plant and the soil. That of course is only one opinion in a see of many though.
Water droplets can damage the leaves as you described. This is why I only foliar feed (if I am foliar feeding at all) when the lights are off.
Hydro has always been too technical for me to deal with. Meters, pumps, reservoirs, monitoring PPM, etc. all these things complicate the ultimately simple symbiotic relationship between a plant and the soil. That of course is only one opinion in a see of many though.
Water droplets can damage the leaves as you described. This is why I only foliar feed (if I am foliar feeding at all) when the lights are off.
- Thread starter
- #6
BlackThumb
New Member
^ Got my Maxicrop Seaweed Extract ordered. I was going to try this stuff since S.Moose says he sprays his every couple of weeks whether they need it or not just because they like it so much.
I will apply as lights go off. I don't even know where I got it, but I always avoided making anything wet in the dark. That may have come from yard care or something about giving fungus, rot and such a chance to get a grip vs watering early in day. I guess that would be an extreme soaking vs a foliar misting also.
Sounds like I am about opposite of you on planting too. I have never had any luck with soil plants. I killed my girlfriends ferns once and she was only gone two weeks. I got the speech about the "easiest to maintain in the world and only need misting and moving in/out at certain times" blah, blah. She still whips that one out and hits me over the head with it when she sees a clean, free shot. They store that stuff away for future ammo you know, but that would be a whole Thread in itself I guess. The hydro with all the associated widgets is kind of what got me trying any of this grow stuff again. Of course it would be really nice for me to get either one going smoothly. I am going to try with direction from you guys, Thanks so much.
I will apply as lights go off. I don't even know where I got it, but I always avoided making anything wet in the dark. That may have come from yard care or something about giving fungus, rot and such a chance to get a grip vs watering early in day. I guess that would be an extreme soaking vs a foliar misting also.
Sounds like I am about opposite of you on planting too. I have never had any luck with soil plants. I killed my girlfriends ferns once and she was only gone two weeks. I got the speech about the "easiest to maintain in the world and only need misting and moving in/out at certain times" blah, blah. She still whips that one out and hits me over the head with it when she sees a clean, free shot. They store that stuff away for future ammo you know, but that would be a whole Thread in itself I guess. The hydro with all the associated widgets is kind of what got me trying any of this grow stuff again. Of course it would be really nice for me to get either one going smoothly. I am going to try with direction from you guys, Thanks so much.
RooRman
Well-Known Member
Very nice talking with you. Cannabis is a bit more hardy then your average fern. Give it light, water and food and it will repay you ten-fold. Most plants can take a hell of alot of abuse and still survive. Thats not to say you should torture them, but you get the idea. Theres nothing wrong with messing up as we can learn much from our own mistakes.
If you can manage hydroponics then more power to you. I have never had the nack for it, I am a soil guy all the way.
Take it from me, "storing ammo" isn't a bad idea... on any level.
+1 for good luck with anything and everything you grow.
If you can manage hydroponics then more power to you. I have never had the nack for it, I am a soil guy all the way.
Take it from me, "storing ammo" isn't a bad idea... on any level.
+1 for good luck with anything and everything you grow.
FreakNature
New Member
I think Moose uses SeaSol or some other product. Maxicrop is similar, you just want a seaweed extract / Kelp product that is low in nitrogen.
Another surfactant is soap. Dr. Bronner's Pure Castille Soap (made with HEMP OIL) is a natural surfactant, very mild, and biodegradable.
Another surfactant is soap. Dr. Bronner's Pure Castille Soap (made with HEMP OIL) is a natural surfactant, very mild, and biodegradable.
StealthtireGr
New Member
Texas Soybean Study: Synopsis: Adding 1/2 of the reccommended rate to a water Irrigation increased yield 37% over the Control, adding full rate, decreased yeild over the control!
Amway Corp, makes a surfactant, and holds a Patent on the Product! I have sold it to Farmers spraying "Cotton" that reduce the amount of insectecide by 35% years ago!
It breaks down the surface tension of water, it just makes water WETTER, or easier to spread!
STG
Agricultural land use in much of the Texas Coastal Prairie consists of 1 yr of rice (Oryza sativa L.) followed by 2 to 4 yr of native pasture. Replacing some of the native pasture with a cultivated rotational crop could benefit the area's agricultural base by reducing fixed costs and aiding pest management. Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merr.] fits the crop rotation system well but yields are highly variable and marginally economical. Research was initiated in 1985 near Eagle Lake, TX, to evaluate the potential of a nonionic surfactant and supplemental irrigation to increase and stabilize soybean yields on the Nada soil (fine loamy, silicous, hyperthermic Typic Albaqualf). In addition the effect of the surfactant and irrigation on P and K fertilizer efficiency was evaluated. The nonionic surfactant (Amway ASPA 80; Amway Corp., Ada, MI) was injected through a lateral-move irrigation system at 0.00, 0.36, 0.71, and 1.42 L ha–1 during a 7 mm irrigation. Adjuvant rate, repeated adjuvant applications within 1 yr and over 3 yr, and P and K at the recommended and half the recommended rates were evaluated. Supplemental irrigation was applied so irrigation plus rainfall equalled 19 mm wk–1. No measurable yield differences between P and K rates were detected. The adjuvant at 0.36 L ha–1 increased soybean yields 37% above the check. Adjuvant at the 0.71 and 1.42 L ha–1 rate decreased yield from the 0.36 L ha–1 rate. No phytotoxicity was observed. Multiple adjuvant applications during 1 yr, and repeated applications to the same area over years, had no additional beneficial yield effect.
Amway Corp, makes a surfactant, and holds a Patent on the Product! I have sold it to Farmers spraying "Cotton" that reduce the amount of insectecide by 35% years ago!
It breaks down the surface tension of water, it just makes water WETTER, or easier to spread!
STG
Agricultural land use in much of the Texas Coastal Prairie consists of 1 yr of rice (Oryza sativa L.) followed by 2 to 4 yr of native pasture. Replacing some of the native pasture with a cultivated rotational crop could benefit the area's agricultural base by reducing fixed costs and aiding pest management. Soybean [Glycine max (L.) Merr.] fits the crop rotation system well but yields are highly variable and marginally economical. Research was initiated in 1985 near Eagle Lake, TX, to evaluate the potential of a nonionic surfactant and supplemental irrigation to increase and stabilize soybean yields on the Nada soil (fine loamy, silicous, hyperthermic Typic Albaqualf). In addition the effect of the surfactant and irrigation on P and K fertilizer efficiency was evaluated. The nonionic surfactant (Amway ASPA 80; Amway Corp., Ada, MI) was injected through a lateral-move irrigation system at 0.00, 0.36, 0.71, and 1.42 L ha–1 during a 7 mm irrigation. Adjuvant rate, repeated adjuvant applications within 1 yr and over 3 yr, and P and K at the recommended and half the recommended rates were evaluated. Supplemental irrigation was applied so irrigation plus rainfall equalled 19 mm wk–1. No measurable yield differences between P and K rates were detected. The adjuvant at 0.36 L ha–1 increased soybean yields 37% above the check. Adjuvant at the 0.71 and 1.42 L ha–1 rate decreased yield from the 0.36 L ha–1 rate. No phytotoxicity was observed. Multiple adjuvant applications during 1 yr, and repeated applications to the same area over years, had no additional beneficial yield effect.
